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ABC Show Will Go on, Over Protest by Doctors (Episode claims immunization causes autism)
New York Times ^ | 29 January 2008 | By EDWARD WYATT

Posted on 01/28/2008 11:54:13 PM PST by bd476


ABC Show Will Go on, Over Protest by Doctors

By EDWARD WYATT

Published: January 29, 2008

ABC said on Monday it would include a disclaimer about the plot line of the debut episode of the drama “Eli Stone,” which links childhood vaccines to autism, and direct viewers to a government Web site that discredits such a link.

ABC’s decision follows a call by the American Academy of Pediatrics for ABC to cancel the opening episode of “Eli Stone,” which is scheduled to be broadcast at 10 p.m. Thursday.

In a letter to ABC executives on Friday, Dr. Renee R. Jenkins, the president of the pediatrics academy, warned that the episode “could lead to a tragic decline in immunization rates.” The first episode portrays a lawyer who wins a case against a drug company on behalf of a mother who believes that a preservative in a vaccine caused her child’s autism.

The link between a vaccine preservative called thimerosal and autism has been debated for much of the last decade, but many scientific studies have failed to show any causal link between the two.

The letter from the pediatrics group followed an article in The New York Times last week highlighting..."


(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: autism; immunization; rubella; vaccination; vaccines; whoopingcough
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Associated Press:

28 January 2008

Pediatricians Group Wants Show Canceled

By LINDSEY TANNER – 6 hours ago

CHICAGO (AP) — The nation's largest pediatricians' group on Monday said ABC should cancel the first episode of a new series because it perpetuates the myth that vaccines can cause autism.

ABC's new drama, "Eli Stone," debuts on Thursday. It features British actor Jonny Lee Miller as a prophet-like lawyer who in the opening episode argues in court that a flu vaccine made a child autistic. When it is revealed in court that an executive at the fictional vaccine maker didn't allow his own child to get the shot, jurors side with the family, giving them a huge award.

The show's co-creators say they're not anti-vaccine and would be upset if parents chose not to immunize their children after seeing the show.

But, said Dr. Renee R. Jenkins, president of the influential American Academy of Pediatrics, "A television show that perpetuates the myth that vaccines cause autism is the height of reckless irresponsibility on the part of ABC and its parent company, The Walt Disney Co."

"If parents watch this program and choose to deny their children immunizations, ABC will share in the responsibility for the suffering and deaths that occur as a result. The consequences of a decline in immunization rates could be devastating to the health of our nation's children," Jenkins said in a statement.

Autism is a complex disorder featuring repetitive behaviors and poor social interaction and communication skills. Scientists generally believe that genetics plays a role in causing the disorder; a theory that a mercury-based preservative once widely used in childhood vaccines is to blame has been repeatedly discounted in scientific studies.

The academy released the text of a letter Jenkins wrote on Friday, addressed to Anne Sweeney, president of Disney-ABC Television Group. In the letter, Jenkins writes that many viewers "trust the health information presented on fictional television shows, which influences their decisions about health care. "

Jenkins noted that erroneous reports in the United Kingdom linking the measles vaccine to autism prompted a decline in vaccination and the worst outbreak of measles in two decades.

Greg Berlanti, a co-creator of the show, said the episode is fictional but designed "to participate in what is a national conversation" about a controversial subject. He said the boy who plays the autistic child has autism, but that the show's producers have no connection with advocates involved in the autism debate.

"We would be deeply upset" if parents opted against vaccination because of the episode, Berlanti said.

Marc Guggenheim, who helped create the show, said the first episode shows how a fictional company covered up a study that raised questions about its product, and that the message is really about "the downside of the corporatization of America."

On the Net:

Academy: http://www.aap.org

ABC: http://www.abc.com




1 posted on 01/28/2008 11:54:15 PM PST by bd476
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To: bd476
the message is really about "the downside of the corporatization of America."

As opposed to the communization of America perhaps?

2 posted on 01/29/2008 12:35:12 AM PST by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: bd476

Let the show go on. The Docs cna protest all the way to the bank as usual.


3 posted on 01/29/2008 12:56:42 AM PST by OPS4 (Ops4 God Bless America!)
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To: bd476
The link between a vaccine preservative called thimerosal and autism has been debated for much of the last decade, but many scientific studies have failed to show any causal link between the two.

In that case, airing this unsupported claim of dangerous vaccinations is just irresponsible. Too many people believe that any nonsense aired in some TV drama is fact. The only proven fact here is that childhood vaccinations keep alive many children who used to die from a variety of illnesses.
4 posted on 01/29/2008 1:25:51 AM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

They use mercury as a preservative for vaccines. Keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies are interested in profit. I know I used to work for one.

There is no safe level of Mercury especially for children.


5 posted on 01/29/2008 1:29:33 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: ColdSteelTalon

Except they have stopped using the mercury, and after the change the rates of autism continued to rise, indicating it was not the mercury.


6 posted on 01/29/2008 1:47:16 AM PST by SlapHappyPappy
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To: Pontiac; OPS4; AnotherUnixGeek; ColdSteelTalon


This is a tough call. The ABC show is basically arguing for freedom of speech.

The Doctors' group and others are arguing against what they are basically labeling as reckless disinformation and rumors about the safety of childhood vaccinations.

Measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, smallpox, polio, etc. used to cripple and/or kill children and adults.

The higher the number of children denied immunization based upon parental fears that immunizations cause autism, the greater the risk of reemergence of deadly illnesses, sadly resulting in an increase in the number of deaths from preventable diseases.

Yet the anti-immunization side has many heartrending anecdotal stories with claims that childhood vaccines cause autism.

I have a couple of anecdotal stories, one from my childhood, and a current one.

When I was in third grade, one day a friend told me that her brother had died from whooping cough. It was very sad hearing that and I began crying right along with my friend.

It didn't occur to me to be frightened because I had never heard of whooping cough. It also didn't occur to me that my friend's brother had exposed everyone in my friend's family and everyone at school. My childhood naivete back then protected me from fear and allowed my sadness to govern.

Today I have friends who had a lovely baby boy born about fourteen years ago. Sometime around their son's third birthday, the parents noticed that their son had some very serious behavior problems. The Mother was convinced that her son had autism and that the autism was caused by the vaccinations given to her son shortly after his birth.

The couple spent the next several years taking their son to different specialists. Finally a doctor diagnosed the boy as having Asperger's Syndrome, which is one of many autism disorders along the autism spectrum.

After seeing the boy's many struggles, after hearing the parents' endless stories, including how much work they went through, first in getting their son diagnosed and then finding adequate treatment for him, I admit to having some difficulty not believing that the vaccinations may have caused their son's autism.

Yet the couple's second born child, a girl, also began displaying similar behaviors at the same age her brother had first begun displaying his autism symptoms. As I recall, the couple had not permitted doctors to give their daughter any vaccinations.

This raises a couple of questions. In the case of my friends and their son and daughter, both diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, it seems that Asperger's might have been a disorder which was genetically based.

Yet what parent in their right mind would risk their child getting Asperger's Syndrome by relying on current medical opinion that Asperger's Syndrome is just a heritable illness and that childhood vaccines are safe?

What parent could be reassured that they have nothing to fear from currently recommended childhood immunizations, especially, as in the case of my friends, if they already had one vaccinated child diagnosed as having autism?

And then there's my childhood friend's brother who died of whooping cough.

What parent in their right mind would put their child at risk of dying from a preventable illness by forbidding their child the protection afforded by childhood vaccines?

I believe in freedom of speech, otherwise, someone today might say that I have no right to type up my opinion nor share my anecdotal stories.

However freedom of speech ends when someone wants to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater.

In this case, I don't see any difference between someone yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater and the network airing a show portraying parents of an autistic child winning millions of dollars in a lawsuit against a medical corporation in a claim that their child's autism was caused by childhood vaccinations.


7 posted on 01/29/2008 1:56:26 AM PST by bd476
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To: SlapHappyPappy

What I find interesting is wondering if there is perhaps a link between the vaccinations these autistic children’s parents’ received as children — there is definitely something causing the genetic problems with the rise in Autism...


8 posted on 01/29/2008 2:00:33 AM PST by LibertyRocks ("Islam - The Religion of Pieces" -- quote from LR's "Infidel & Proud" Daughter)
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To: bd476

Ah, the usual “fake but accurate” defense from the cultural commisars of the left. It never matters whether they present actual facts accurately, because their intentions are so good (sic) and they are so anxious to save us all from some kind of ill, even if it’s not the one portrayed in their propaganda.


9 posted on 01/29/2008 2:06:59 AM PST by Enchante (Hillary Clinton: As a little girl near Chicago I always dreamed of the NY Giants in the SuperBowl!!)
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To: bd476

Vaccines have a mercury based preservative called thimerasol. There is no safe level of Mercury exposure. Why is thimerasol banned in more than 20 contries but not the U.S. ?

It may not be the vaccine itself causing the damage but something is, and the number of vaccines that children are being given has increased in recent years.

Its probably the mercury.


10 posted on 01/29/2008 2:08:12 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

“In that case, airing this unsupported claim of dangerous vaccinations is just irresponsible.”

Irresponsible in the extreme.

But what the hell, it’s only kid’s lives we’re talking about, and it is sure to improve ratings.


11 posted on 01/29/2008 2:09:03 AM PST by EEDUDE
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To: SlapHappyPappy

Check the records. The number of vaccines that children are being given has increased.


12 posted on 01/29/2008 2:09:17 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: SlapHappyPappy
Except they have stopped using the mercury

Uuuuh check the records its still being used especially in the united states.

13 posted on 01/29/2008 2:10:43 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: SlapHappyPappy

Except they have stopped using the mercury, and after the change the rates of autism continued to rise, indicating it was not the mercury.


So, it’s jupiter? Perhaps Mars Bars? I’m betting on Moon Pies!


14 posted on 01/29/2008 2:11:07 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: Pontiac
Pontiac wrote: "the message is really about 'the downside of the corporatization of America.'

As opposed to the communization of America perhaps?"

I think you just hit the nail on the head.

15 posted on 01/29/2008 2:13:16 AM PST by bd476
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To: Enchante
Enchante wrote: "Ah, the usual 'fake but accurate' defense from the cultural commisars of the left. It never matters whether they present actual facts accurately, because their intentions are so good (sic) and they are so anxious to save us all from some kind of ill, even if it’s not the one portrayed in their propaganda"

Well said!

16 posted on 01/29/2008 2:14:57 AM PST by bd476
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To: ColdSteelTalon
ColdSteelTalon wrote: "Its probably the mercury."

That doesn't explain the unvaccinated autistic child of my friends, and thus it also does not explain her vaccinated autistic brother.

From the CDC:

Mercury and Vaccines (Thimerosal)

Thimerosal is a mercury-containing preservative used in some vaccines and other products since the 1930s.

There is no convincing scientific evidence of harm caused by the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines, except for minor reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.

However, in July 1999, the Public Health Service agencies, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and vaccine manufacturers agreed that thimerosal should be reduced or eliminated in vaccines as a precautionary measure.

Since 2001, with the exception of some influenza (flu) vaccines, thimerosal is not used as a preservative in routinely recommended childhood vaccines.

CDC Statement on Autism and Thimerosal

As the country's leading public health agency, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is committed to protecting the health of all Americans—including infants, children, and adolescents.

CDC shares with parents and many others great concern about the number of children with autism spectrum disorders (ASD). We are committed to understanding what causes autism, how it can be prevented, and how it can be recognized and treated as early as possible.

Recent estimates from CDC's Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring network found that about 1 in 150 children have an ASD. This estimate is higher than estimates from the early 1990s.

Some people believe increased exposure to thimerosal (from the addition of important new vaccines recommended for children) explains the higher prevalence in recent years.

However, evidence from several studies examining trends in vaccine use and changes in autism frequency does not support such an association.

Furthermore, a scientific review by the Institute of Medicine (IOM) concluded that "the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism."

CDC supports the IOM conclusion.

CDC recognizes that autism is an urgent health concern and supports comprehensive research as our best hope for understanding the causes of autism and other developmental disorders. Through collaborations with partners in government, research centers, and the public, CDC is focusing on three areas—

1. Understanding the frequency and trends of autism spectrum disorders.

2. Advancing research in the search for causes and effective treatments.

3. Improving early detection and diagnosis so affected children are treated as soon as possible.


Centers for Disease Control Thimerosal


17 posted on 01/29/2008 2:26:50 AM PST by bd476
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To: ColdSteelTalon
Thimerosal might be a TRIGGER for autism, but it is not the cause - - IT NEVER WAS.
Now all the irresponsible people, including Dr. Stanley Monteith, who blame thimerosal for autism can admit they were wrong.

I said so some time ago...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/911036/posts

This disorder is generally accepted as a biological syndrome that affects both the gastrointestinal and central nervous systems. Children who are autistic can range from mild to severe cases, and the position of autism in developmental psychiatry parallels that of schizophrenia in validity and severity.

Almost all of the researchers in this field of study agree that genetic predisposition is crucial in the neurological foundation of autism. It has been shown that if one of a pair of identical twins is autistic, there is a 90 percent chance the other twin will be autistic. Furthermore, parents of one autistic child who’s risk is 1 in 500 of having an autistic child, rises to 1 in 20 with a second child. After two autistic children, this risk increases to 1 in 3. In addition, “the chances that the siblings of an autistic child will display one or more of the other developmental disorders with a known genetic basis – such as dyslexia or Tourette’s syndrome – are also significantly higher than normal.”

One most curious aspect is the dramatically higher incidence of this in Silicon Valley and the Route 128 area outside of Boston. Some high functioning people who work in these areas are considered “broad autistic phenotypes”. “One provocative hypothesis that might account for the rise of spectrum disorders in technically adept communities like Silicon Valley, some geneticists speculate, is an increase in assortative mating.”

This phenomena is not occurring in just the previously mentioned areas, but also in other places where a concentration of technically advanced people are having children, as well as an increase of reported rates all over the world. There is cause for alarm and an urgent need to mobilize research efforts.

The most detailed medical analysis of autism by far can be found in Topics in Clinical Chiropractic. The most detailed social analysis is in Wired magazine. The most instructive is Behavioral Intervention for Young Children with Autism. There are other sources full of valuable information on the topic. Space prohibits their inclusion and discussion at this time.

Autism remains a puzzle. It is generally believed to be a genetic disorder related to a variant allele of HOXB1, a gene on chromosome 17, possibly regions on chromosome 15, chromosome 7 and chromosome 9. A remarkable and detailed report on the etiologies, brain mechanisms, and neuropsychological phenotypes can be found in Diagnosing Learning Disorders; A Neuropsychological Framework (which may be now outdated). This following description is a valuable bit of information from this 1991 book:

…Briefly, existing evidence supports the conclusion that autism is familial, heritable and genetically heterogeneous. Among the possible genetic subtypes are multifactorial inheritance, autosomal recessive inheritance, X-linked inheritance and nonfamilial chromosomal anomalies.

Here are some sources...

Silberman, Steve. “The Geek Syndrome.” Wired Dec 2001: 176.

Brian J Gleberzon and Anita L Rosenberg-Gleberzon. “On autism: Its prevalence, diagnosis, causes, and treatment.” Topics in Clinical Chiropractic. Dec 2001.

http://proquest.umi.compdqweb?TS=1019705267&RQT=309&CC=2&Dtp=1&Did>

Maurice, Catherine, ed. Behavioral Intervention for Young Children with Autism. Austin: PRO-ED, 1996.

Rodier, Patricia M. “The Early origins of Autism.” Scientific American. Feb 2000: 56.

Bower, B. “Gene Implicated in Development of Autism.” Science News. Dec 16, 2000: 390.

Holden, Constance. “The Destiny of Autism?” Science Now. Dec 6, 2000: 3.

Pennington, Bruce F. Diagnosing Learning Disorders; A Neuropsychological Framework. New York: Guilford Press, 1991.

18 posted on 01/29/2008 2:31:12 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: bd476

See #18...

I have researched this...


19 posted on 01/29/2008 2:32:44 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: bd476

Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah...gubmint science. Here’s an expert!

Jenny McCarthy: If you look at the vaccine schedule, and you can go on www.generationrescue.com and that’s a really good website… the vaccines that you received in 1983 were ten. Today they’re thirty-six. Thirty-six vaccinations compared to ten back in the day. A lot of these kids seem to be born with a little bit of an auto-immune problem. Maybe they can’t really detox some of the toxins in the environment as easily. For instance, one of the things is glutathione. Glutathione is everyone’s bodies’ natural anti-oxidant that gets rid of toxins and viruses and stuff like that. We’ve noticed that a lot of these kids have low glutathione. So we say, “God, if these kids are born with low glutathione, a lower immune system, then how are they supposed to now take thirty-six vaccines when we never had that before?” So it’s real easy when you look at that list of what it was like, and what it’s like now, to go, “Ah! I see the escalation of vaccines and I see the escalation of autism,” and that’s how we got there.


20 posted on 01/29/2008 2:33:31 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek; holdonnow
Another UnixGeek wrote: "In that case, airing this unsupported claim of dangerous vaccinations is just irresponsible. Too many people believe that any nonsense aired in some TV drama is fact. The only proven fact here is that childhood vaccinations keep alive many children who used to die from a variety of illnesses."

I agree completely.

What about the free speech argument, or the excuse that it's just a fictional show for entertainment purposes only?

Is there legal justification to prohibit content if the content is portrayed as "fiction" in a television drama? Just asking because I do not know.

21 posted on 01/29/2008 2:34:31 AM PST by bd476
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Bless you and thank you.

22 posted on 01/29/2008 2:38:25 AM PST by bd476
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To: bd476

Ugh... Is this that mercury thing again? Debunked and debunked - years ago. Autism rates in Europe actually began to skyrocket AFTER they stopped using it in vaccinations. And now the mercury-less vaccinations, adopted to prevent autism, are suspected of causing autism again?

Gettin a little ridiculous.


23 posted on 01/29/2008 2:39:11 AM PST by COgamer
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To: LibertyRocks
there is definitely something causing the genetic problems with the rise in Autism

But are we asking the right questions?

Is there really a rise in the number of children with Autism or are there simply more children being diagnosed with Autism that once were diagnosed with something else (retardation) or not diagnosed period.

If the increase in Autism is real finding the cause will be difficult. The correlation between vaccines and the onset of Autism is flimsy. The mercury-based preservative once widely used in childhood vaccines has not been used in years and I have not heard of any drop in the incidence of Autism.

The onset of Autism has always been in the 1 to 5 age range which co-incidentally is also the age when vaccines are administered.

Nailing down the cause of a disorder effecting the brain is never going to be easy because it is such a complex organ and is developing rapidly from a few weeks after conception through age six or seven (and keeps developing to about age 27). One theory of Autism that I read is that it is analogous to schizophrenia. Schizophrenia has an onset of around 17 to 22. This is also a time of critical brain development similar to the time when Autism occurs.

Another theory I have read noted a correlation between flue like symptoms and the onset of Autism. This suggested a possible link to a viral infection causing a change in brain development.

My point being that determining the cause(s) of Autism will be a long and difficult process unless we get lucky.

24 posted on 01/29/2008 2:40:01 AM PST by Pontiac (Your message here.)
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To: bd476
Mercury is dangerous. If you dont have enough sense to understand that then you are ignorant. Some people can tolerate more mercury than others. Poisons and toxins are not metabolised the same in every person.

If Mercury based preservatives are not dangerous then why is it banned in many of the industrialized nations except of course the United States. Why is it that Dick Armey a man in the pocket of the pharma industry puts a rider in in the 2002 Homeland security act to protect the industry from lawsuits from thimerosal?

If you accept the party line from the goverment who passes laws to protect industry at the expense of its citizens, then you really are very naive.

25 posted on 01/29/2008 2:43:42 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: ColdSteelTalon
Keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies are interested in profit. I know I used to work for one.

So does every other company in the world. It's called capitalism. It's the reason we have the wealth and leisure to sit in front of computers and debate, instead of walking behind ox-drawn plows all our lives.

26 posted on 01/29/2008 2:44:13 AM PST by jalisco555 ("My 80% friend is not my 20% enemy" - Ronald Reagan)
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To: jalisco555

Profit at the expense of human lives and health. Thats the side of capitalism I can do without.


27 posted on 01/29/2008 2:46:54 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: durasell
I think it's an pro-illegal immigration ploy also tied to this as those adults and their children that invade have immunizations of less than 1% on average.

As with the statin hype (some people are helped) the hype with all the 'preventable' diseases that children can be immunized for has increased 7 fold since the mid-late 60's.

Mumps, measles, whooping cough, diphtheria, tetanus, TB, smallpox, and polio were pretty much the standard immunizations when I was a kid, but today, diseases once practically eradicated from the US are back and climbing.

I think the crap in our food (preservatives, antibiotics and steroids ingested by the expecting mothers) combined with the additional 'needed vaccinations for kids' in our meat supply is the culprit triggering the rise in autism. Think about the sheer level of the combination of these man-made substances in our systems today.

Of course, the quest profits will keep the scientists quite for these answers.

28 posted on 01/29/2008 2:47:56 AM PST by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: ColdSteelTalon
Why is it that Dick Armey a man in the pocket of the pharma industry puts a rider in in the 2002 Homeland security act to protect the industry from lawsuits from thimerosal?

the story line of the TV show gives you your answer. Your buddies like John Edwards don't care about facts, just profiteering on peoples' fears. I guess you got canned by a pharmaceutical company and are pretty bitter about it . I'm sorry.

29 posted on 01/29/2008 2:48:57 AM PST by gusopol3
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To: durasell
durasell wrote: "Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah...gubmint science. Here’s an expert!"

Durasell, thanks for responding.

Your response is a lot longer but I wanted to quote just the first part of what you wrote because I believe that unintentionally, you've made a strong point.

How many people take the time to carefully read before responding?

I read your entire response and based upon your first sentence, I doubt that you read mine.

A difficulty we all face is that the information highway is jam-packed with scientific facts while unproven, untested hearsay, gossip and guesses are loading up on the on-ramps.

If you're not going to read and address what I've personally experienced, why in the world would I bother reading alleged quotes from some actress neither one of us know personally?

30 posted on 01/29/2008 2:53:59 AM PST by bd476
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To: bd476

This show appears to be a John Edwards for President 2008 infomercial.


31 posted on 01/29/2008 2:56:40 AM PST by A Balrog of Morgoth (QMC(SW) USN........ CG21 DD988 FFG34 PC6 ARS53)
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To: ColdSteelTalon
ColdSteelTalon wrote: "If you dont have enough sense to understand that then you are ignorant."


First, what post are responding to?

Secondly, your If... then argument fails logically.

I don't have to possess enough of anything to understand that you have a serious reading comprehension problem.


ColdSteelTalon wrote: "If Mercury based preservatives are not dangerous..."
Where did you read that?


ColdSteelTalon wrote: "Why is it that Dick Armey a man in the pocket of the pharma industry puts a rider in in the 2002 Homeland security act to protect the industry from lawsuits from thimerosal?"

Where did you read that?



ColdSteelTalon wrote: "If you accept the party line from the goverment who passes laws to protect industry at the expense of its citizens..."

Whoa! Did you take a wrong turn and instead of heading to DU, you landed here?

32 posted on 01/29/2008 3:07:13 AM PST by bd476
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To: A Balrog of Morgoth
A Balrog of Morgoth wrote: "This show appears to be a John Edwards for President 2008 infomercial."

ROFL! Perfect!

33 posted on 01/29/2008 3:09:38 AM PST by bd476
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To: Pontiac

Thimerosal might be a TRIGGER for autism, but it is not the cause - - IT NEVER WAS.

Autism is a genetic disorder. See #18... I have researched this topic extensively and have several dozen more pages than that


34 posted on 01/29/2008 3:12:28 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: gusopol3
I guess you got canned by a pharmaceutical company and are pretty bitter about it . I'm sorry.

Nice straw man argument. But totally innacurate.

Here are the facts... I worked for a pharma company In Delaware in the mid 90s as a consultant. They were working a new AIDS drug and someone was killed from it. The talk around the office was that they had spent 400 million dollars and they were not going to see a return on the investment. No mention about the poor man who died.

My eyes were opened and I realized that people love money far more than they do each other.

Anyhow the scuttlebut later was that further animal experimentation might have caught the lethal problem, but they were in a race with other pharma companies.

So you see no one can sell me that companies and the gubberment are just hookers with a heart of gold crap. I aint buying.

35 posted on 01/29/2008 3:16:22 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: bd476

Go soak your head moron.


36 posted on 01/29/2008 3:18:27 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: COgamer; Sir Francis Dashwood
COgamer wrote: "Ugh... Is this that mercury thing again? Debunked and debunked - years ago. Autism rates in Europe actually began to skyrocket AFTER they stopped using it in vaccinations. And now the mercury-less vaccinations, adopted to prevent autism, are suspected of causing autism again?

Gettin a little ridiculous"


Yes, agree that it's ridiculous. Yet this is also a good example of how important it is for everyone, including you and me, to be wise consumers, wise voters, and have access to and read factual information.

The non-stop "infotainment" we receive from television dramas, talk shows and the 5:00 Evening News rarely has anything of substance.

Do you have links to the information you cited about the rise in autisum rates in Europe after Europe (which countries?) stopped using mercury in vaccinations? Thanks in advance. I appreciate it!

37 posted on 01/29/2008 3:20:40 AM PST by bd476
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To: ColdSteelTalon
ColdSteelTalon wrote: "Go soak your head moron."
LOL! Aww, come on, why would you say something like that? I'm here to discuss and you seem only intent on name-calling and trying to bully people.

What's your motive in doing that? It certainly can't be to prove or disprove a point.

What is your goal in posting here?

38 posted on 01/29/2008 3:26:13 AM PST by bd476
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To: ColdSteelTalon

So what you’re saying is, let the guy die of AIDS, don’t try to do anything about it because somebody might make some money. You are a true lover of your fellow man.


39 posted on 01/29/2008 3:32:11 AM PST by gusopol3
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To: RSmithOpt

See #18... I have research and sources...

Now, about man made agents in our food.

I would only agree (in my limited expertise on the subject) that it is troublesome the depletion of trace minerals in the soil is affecting nutritional health.

Mothers need to breast feed infants. The antibodies are essential. In fact, bovine colostrum is now being harvested as a nutritional supplement because of the antibodies...

However, this also means the calf is not getting this. Dairy farmers and beef producers often load their stock up on antibiotics. Add to this the fact that the feeding practices of cattle are sometimes neglected, then consider problems like mad cow disease.

There is a reason cows are regularly given mineral salts.

The funny thing about cow’s milk is that the casein is very course and not readily absorbed by the human digestive system. Goat’s milk is much better for you because it is very easy to digest.


40 posted on 01/29/2008 3:33:32 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: bd476
Read my previous about my experience in the pharma industry. I do believe in capitalism and business but I also believe that industry is resposible for what they make, and if they were truly responsible they would not be asking the gubberment to cover for them on liability and such.

I apologize for what I said to you, it was wrong.

I am only trying to make the point that from a moral perspective companies are responsible and that the government should not be in the busines of covering for them all the time. It frustrates me to find that whenever a person suggests that companies like the pharma industry are not concerned for peoples health rather than profit, that I get attacked by people who seem to be shills for big business on this site.

41 posted on 01/29/2008 3:35:02 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: Pontiac; LibertyRocks

There was information (or a study) I just recently read concerning the Amish who had previously not immunized their children and who also had little rate of autism UNTIL they began to have their children get immunized. I will post that information later (unless someone beats me to it by that time).


42 posted on 01/29/2008 3:38:05 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: gusopol3
So what you’re saying is, let the guy die of AIDS, don’t try to do anything about it because somebody might make some money. You are a true lover of your fellow man.

I dont think you read my post. I made the point that the company was not concerned at all about the man who died but the loss of money.

43 posted on 01/29/2008 3:38:36 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: ColdSteelTalon

the motive for trying to develop the drug was to help the man with his illness, thereby showing compassion on him. Oh, I’m sure there were those in the company that were just looking for a profit, also, but after investing $400,000,000 on efficacy and safety studies, they can’t be accused by even you of trying to turn a quick buck.


44 posted on 01/29/2008 3:45:18 AM PST by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3
Oh, I’m sure there were those in the company that were just looking for a profit..

I was there and they talking about the money. I know I was there.

45 posted on 01/29/2008 3:49:49 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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To: ColdSteelTalon
There is no safe level of Mercury especially for children.

Funny thing about that...when I was in grade school, some kid would occasionally bring in a blob of mercury from a broken thermometer, and we would have lots of fun coating pennies, etc., with the stuff. Today any such incident is treated as a miniature Chernobyl.

How different the laws o chemistry and biology were back then.

46 posted on 01/29/2008 3:51:00 AM PST by BlazingArizona
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To: Pontiac; LibertyRocks

Gene Plays Role in Risk of Autism
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/080110/gene-plays-role-in-risk-of-autism.htm

A gene that appears to play a key role in the development of autism has been identified by three different teams of researchers.

UCLA scientists found that the gene — contactin-associated protein-like 2 (CNTNAP2) — is most active in brain regions involved with language and thought and that the presence of the gene may explain speech delays in children with autism.
A specific variation in the structure of CNTNAP2 makes a child more vulnerable to developing autism...especially in boy at about a 16/1 ratio vs girls.

****************************

Guess what TRIGGERS the defective gene/chromosome?

****************************

Seizure Disorder in Amish Children Points to Autism

STRASBURG, Pa., March 29 - A study of Old Order Amish children has identified the genetic mutation that causes a previously unknown disorder, with seizures that progress to autism and retardation.

The recessive disorder, dubbed cortical dysplasia-focal epilepsy syndrome, or CDFE, is marked by relatively normal infancy followed by onset at about 14 to 16 months of age of frequent seizures — 50 to 90 per week.

The seizure onset is followed by language regression and the development of hyperactivity, aggressive and impulsive behaviors, and mental retardation, reported Kevin A. Strauss, M.D., of the Clinic for Special Children here, and colleagues, The Old Order Amish is a close-knit, genetically homogenous population.

The finding points to a genetic variation in the gene encoding for contactin-associated protein-like 2 (CASPR2) as a possible cause of both epilepsy and autism in the affected children, the investigators wrote in the March 30 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

Genetics researchers often find insights into the origins of developmental disorders by studying populations such as the Amish, Mennonites, and Hasidic Jews. Members of these groups tend to have ancestors who came from the same geographic region, live in isolated populations, and intermarry, allowing recessive genetic traits to emerge in their offspring.

The seizure onset was followed by deterioration in learning ability and social development, and by age three all patients with CDFE were found to have “language regression, aberrant social interactions, and a restricted behavioral repertoire.

Their findings provide important insights into a previously unknown developmental role for CASPR2, a protein known to be important for neuronal and glial connections in the mature central nervous system.

“Previous studies on CASPR2 in isolated cell cultures and genetic ‘knockout’ mice did not predict its fundamental role in human brain development or cortical electrical activity,” Dr. Krauss said. “The present findings are compelling evidence for such roles, and open new directions for epilepsy and autism research beyond the index population.”

His colleague, D. Holmes Morton, M.D., co-founder and medical director of the Center for Special Children, added that “the identification of the mutation in CASPR2 in our Amish patients has already allowed us to recognize affected newborns before they become symptomatic. Our hope is that early treatment and prevention of prolonged seizures in these infants will lessen the effects of the disorder upon the lives of children and their families.”

Primary source: New England Journal of Medicine Source reference: Strauss KA et al. “Recessive Symptomatic Focal Epilepsy and Mutant Contactin-Associated Protein-like 2” N Engl J Med 2006;354:1370-7.

***********************

They ID’d CNTNAP2 chromosome 16 defect as the cause. The “Old Order Amish” have instances of this! And see...THIS:

* Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2007 Apr;26(4):370.

Vaccination usage among an old-order Amish community in Illinois.

Yoder JS, Dworkin MS.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA 30341, USA.

The Old-Order Amish have low rates of vaccination and are at increased risk for vaccine-preventable diseases. A written survey was mailed to all Amish households in the largest Amish community in Illinois inquiring about their vaccination status and that of their children. In this survey, the Amish do not universally reject vaccines, adequate vaccination coverage in Amish communities can be achieved, and Amish objections to vaccines might not be for religious reasons.

PMID: 17133167 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


So...the Old Order Amish have a LOW rate of vaccination...and a LOW rate of Autism/autism spectrum disorders!

*************************8

Thiomersal is very toxic by inhalation, ingestion, and in contact with skin (EC hazard symbol T+), with danger of cumulative effects. It is also very toxic to aquatic organisms, and may cause long-term adverse effects in aquatic environments (EC hazard symbol N).[6] In the body, it is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury (C2H5Hg+) and thiosalicylate.

U.S.F.D.A. Thimerosal in Vaccines
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

***********************************

History of Thimerosal and Autism
http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/2005/08/beginning-at-beginning.html

**********************************

I have more information I can post.....but, it’ll have to later until later this afternoon....gotta run.


47 posted on 01/29/2008 3:51:10 AM PST by nicmarlo
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
True. I know a few military personnel who got out of the military because they were told they were going overseas on their next set of orders and to pass overseas screening the children needed immunizations. Japan is one such place. He said no and left the military. I thought foolish but he was adamant about it.
48 posted on 01/29/2008 3:52:41 AM PST by napscoordinator
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To: ColdSteelTalon

yeah they probably wished they’d have found out the outcome on the first million rather than the 400th. So what?


49 posted on 01/29/2008 3:53:34 AM PST by gusopol3
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To: BlazingArizona
Ever heard the term "mad as a hatter" it was because hatters used mercury to stiffen hats and they went mad because of the mercury exposure.

You dont want mercury in your bloodstream thats for sure. Even old mercury tooth fillings are treated as hazardous waste.

50 posted on 01/29/2008 3:56:14 AM PST by ColdSteelTalon
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