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Gunman made sexual advances (Tinley Park near Chicago)
Chicago Tribune ^ | February 5, 2008 | Tribune reporters

Posted on 02/05/2008 10:55:42 AM PST by Mad-Margaret

The killer of five women at a Lane Bryant store in Tinley Park made sexual advances on at least one of the victims before the slayings and may have targeted a women's shop to avoid confrontation with men, a source said Monday.

The gunman entered the store after 10 a.m. Saturday and chatted briefly with some of the victims before announcing a holdup, and may have initially feigned that he was making a delivery, sources said.

He then took the women to a back room and bound them with duct tape he had brought with him, a law-enforcement source said. He said that before the shooting began, the man made advances toward one or more of the women.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: chicago; fugitive; lanebryant; lanebryantmurders; massshooting; tinleypark
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This is heartbreaking. The survivor who is in protective custody contacted one of the victim's families to reassure them that her death was quick.
1 posted on 02/05/2008 10:55:52 AM PST by Mad-Margaret
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To: Mad-Margaret
and may have targeted a women's shop to avoid confrontation with men, a source said Monday.

And, he chose Chicago so as to avoid a confrontation with a legally armed citizen, IMHO.

2 posted on 02/05/2008 10:58:34 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Puppage

Tinley Park is not Chicago, though Illinois doesn’t have CCW.


3 posted on 02/05/2008 10:59:28 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Mad-Margaret

Here’s a prediction: when caught and identified, he’ll be a repeat violent offender on probation.


4 posted on 02/05/2008 11:00:25 AM PST by JeeperFreeper
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To: 1rudeboy
Tinley Park is not Chicago, though Illinois doesn’t have CCW.

Understood, but the same thought applies.

So sad

5 posted on 02/05/2008 11:00:42 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: Puppage

Tinley Park isn’t Chicago. It’s a village with its own Mayor.


6 posted on 02/05/2008 11:00:50 AM PST by Borges
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To: Mad-Margaret

I have no problem with the death penalty.

Well, OK, Just one. It will take too long to snuff the scumbag.


7 posted on 02/05/2008 11:01:40 AM PST by PeteB570 (NRA - Life member and Black Rifle owner)
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To: Mad-Margaret

Reminds me of the Richard Speck killings. I lived not far from where it happened.


8 posted on 02/05/2008 11:06:51 AM PST by nikos1121 (Thank you again Jimmy Carter)
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To: Mad-Margaret

Are malls now shooting galleries? Why not have metal detectors at mall entrances? Or (much as I hate it) someone to look in women’s purses and men’s pockets. I’m angry at the current practice, at certain stores, of only looking in women’s purses. Men’s pockets need to be looked in, too. A surprising number of men carry knives. How much could a metal detector, and a guard at each entrance, cost?


9 posted on 02/05/2008 11:18:42 AM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Liberals, at heart, are totalitarians - knocking down our freedoms right and left.)
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To: Mad-Margaret
That couldn't have happened. That was a gun free zone.
10 posted on 02/05/2008 11:20:17 AM PST by krb (If you're not outraged, people probably like having you around.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

Yeah, I caught the irony, with my tagline.


11 posted on 02/05/2008 11:21:45 AM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Liberals, at heart, are totalitarians - knocking down our freedoms right and left.)
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To: nikos1121

Oh, my gosh! I was just thinking the same thing this morning. We are really dating ourselves.

My mother’s office was in Roseland, not far from Mr. Matuzek’s bar (I hope I spelled that correctly-he was the father of one of the slain nurses). There was no doubt in my mind that Mr. Matuzek would have killed Speck with his bare hands if he’d ever been released in Mr. Matuzek’s lifetime.

How ironic that the survivor here was also a nurse in training.


12 posted on 02/05/2008 11:22:19 AM PST by Mad-Margaret (Remember I'm a kook, scammer, or troll the next time you want money.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

How about this... piss off, you ain’t looking in my pocket, and if I’m carrying a weapon, tough. Tough on the jackass that pulls his out to shoot innocent people.

I’m SICK of people thinking that metal detectors, or searching INNOCENT CITIZENS is the way to go.


13 posted on 02/05/2008 11:23:01 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

(Oh and I know you were kidding!!!!!!!)


14 posted on 02/05/2008 11:23:40 AM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: Mad-Margaret; nikos1121
Last time I was in Chicago, I drove by the apartment complex (which should be demolished, IMHO) where it happened out of curiosity. What amazes me is that Speck took a LONG walk from the mariners hall (since demolished) all the way to Jeffrey Manor to murder those poor nurses.

One of the many lovely folks (along with Manson, Unruh, and others) who benefitted by having SCOTUS throw out the death penalty in the early 70s.

15 posted on 02/05/2008 11:32:34 AM PST by Clemenza (Ronald Reagan was a "Free Traitor", Like Me ;-))
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To: Mad-Margaret

When I first heard about this, I figured it would turn out to be an ex-husband or ex-boyfriend of one of the women, not a stranger.
His physique should make him stand out in a crowd.


16 posted on 02/05/2008 11:33:12 AM PST by nuconvert (There are bad people in the pistachio business.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

” Men’s pockets need to be looked in, too. A surprising number of men carry knives.”


You want to make men not able to carry a knife?


17 posted on 02/05/2008 11:36:21 AM PST by ansel12 (The conservative boat sailed long ago, it is every man for himself now.)
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To: Mad-Margaret

This is trully heartbreaking...I (like you from the other thread) thought that this was somehow related to one of the woman who worked there. My gut instinct was that this was a jilted boyfriend/husband/babydaddy who went nuts. Sadly, alot of the young girls I have worked with have had alot of ‘drama’ in their lives. This scenario is all the scarier...the randomness of it...and the premeditiation (a woman’s clothing shop early in the day). This makes sense that the police did not confirm that there was a survior (protecting her). Any leads or other info in the Chicago news?


18 posted on 02/05/2008 11:41:50 AM PST by PennsylvaniaMom (I do not want people to be agreeable, as it saves me the trouble of liking them. Jane Austen.)
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To: Clemenza

What were you doing in that neighborhood? I thought those apartments had been demolished.

The first home my mother owned was in Jeffrey Manor. It was a duplex. We moved to our first house (in Rosemoor) when I was 3. And we kept moving southwest.

The people who once lived in Jeffrey Manor are the parents and grandparents of those folks who now live in Tinley Park.


19 posted on 02/05/2008 11:41:57 AM PST by Mad-Margaret (Remember I'm a kook, scammer, or troll the next time you want money.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
A surprising number of men carry knives. How much could a metal detector, and a guard at each entrance, cost?

The cost would be enough to eat up the profits of any store in a strip mall, and it would be ineffective.

The cost to the stores of allowing concealed carry is a big fat zero, and that would be more effective than anything else.

And before you say there wouldn't be anyone with a gun there, I live in an Oregon county. Shall issue is the law of the state, and in our county I am proud to tell you that just under 17% of the total population has permits. Now, subtract out all of those under legal age and I bet 25-30% of the adult population has carry permits.

This kind of stuff just plain doesn't happen around here. Who wants to face those kind of odds?

20 posted on 02/05/2008 11:44:19 AM PST by CurlyDave
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To: Rick.Donaldson
I’m SICK of people thinking that metal detectors, or searching INNOCENT CITIZENS is the way to go.

I'm really torn on this. While I hate people searching my purse (what are they looking for?), I hate the fact that men's pockets aren't searched. Why should a woman be searched, but not a man? Men are primarily the violent ones, not women. I also would have no problem with a metal detector. So, as distasteful as this all is, you got a better idea?

21 posted on 02/05/2008 11:46:23 AM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Liberals, at heart, are totalitarians - knocking down our freedoms right and left.)
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To: Mad-Margaret
I attended the University of Chicago for grad school, but didn't have a car at the time, so couldn't explore much of the South Side (for the obvious reasons). I stopped back in Chicago in April 2006 on a cross country trip back to the east coast, and decided to drive around and explore.

The amazing thing about Jeffrey Manor is that so much of the nabe was built AFTER WWII, basically as an alternative to suburbia for plant managers/city workers. I know that it had a large Jewish population until the late 1960s.

Speaking of the last demographic point: I understand that the old South Shore Country Club did not allow Jewish members, even after the neighborhood became heavily Jewish. Its now a public course (with a nice view of the lake).

22 posted on 02/05/2008 11:50:00 AM PST by Clemenza (Ronald Reagan was a "Free Traitor", Like Me ;-))
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
I also would have no problem with a metal detector. So, as distasteful as this all is, you got a better idea?

I am a law abiding citizen, I DO NOT and will not conform to any rules that deny me the right to defend myself or others.

You may find the metal detectors a valid argument from your perspective, however, those of us who have been in confrontations and know what kind of animals are out there, will never submit to being disarmed.

Just to add another thought for you. I would defend your life in a heartbeat, even though you would not.

23 posted on 02/05/2008 11:51:58 AM PST by Pistolshot (Remember, no matter how bad your life is, someone is watching and enjoying your suffering.)
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To: CurlyDave

I didn’t mean a guard and metal detector at the entrance of every store in the mall, but just at the entrance TO the mall. That certainly can’t cost that much. And, whatever the cost, every store in the mall, including the mall itself, could share the cost. There are usually dozens of shops in a mall, so if it was spread between them, the cost would be minimal.


24 posted on 02/05/2008 11:52:51 AM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Liberals, at heart, are totalitarians - knocking down our freedoms right and left.)
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To: PennsylvaniaMom

I’m still not convinced that one of the victims didn’t know the killer. I just can’t get my mind around a robbery at a Lane Bryant in Tinley Park.

And there’s still no composite sketch of the killer!

Here’s an article from the neighborhood paper about the search for the killer.
http://www.southtownstar.com/news/776880,020508shootingfolo.article


25 posted on 02/05/2008 11:55:23 AM PST by Mad-Margaret (Remember I'm a kook, scammer, or troll the next time you want money.)
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To: Pistolshot

Why would you need a gun at the mall? If everybody went through a metal detector, and no guns were allowed in, what would be the problem? I admit it’s not a perfect solution, but do you have a better idea? I’m just exploring ideas on what we can do to prevent our malls from becoming shooting galleries.


26 posted on 02/05/2008 11:59:37 AM PST by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Liberals, at heart, are totalitarians - knocking down our freedoms right and left.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Why not have metal detectors at mall entrances? Or (much as I hate it) someone to look in women’s purses and men’s pockets. I’m angry at the current practice, at certain stores, of only looking in women’s purses.

I'm assuming you're not being sarcastic here. I've got an idea for you. HOW ABOUT LETTING THE LITTLE PEOPLE GO ARMED? The murderers are armed, and the victims are not. THIS IS HOW THE GOVERNMENT WANTS IT. Or did anyone think that the criminal came in and took a gun away from one of his victims and then killed them with it.

The government wants several things. First that the populace be reduced to helplessness. If you're totally helpless, then you can't oppose the government, and that is one hell of a lot more important than the safety of any number of citizens. Second it doesn't want citizens to be able to defend themselves from criminal attack, because if they did, then the citizens might get the idea that they might not need so many donut sucking police and so many taxes to support them.

Frankly I find your attitude more worthy of Sara Brady than of free republic, but that just might be me.

27 posted on 02/05/2008 12:03:58 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Read your own tagline. Until people accept responsibility for their own safety and prepare themselves accordingly, these killings will continue. If you live in a People’s Republic, move or get involved with changing CCW laws.
28 posted on 02/05/2008 12:04:27 PM PST by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: Mad-Margaret

From re-reading your post, he brought duct tape...and taped them...and held the gun on them while getting them all to the back room? And only one made it out? I think I am misunderstanding something...and I agree w/you...he may have had some kind of failed relationship w/one of the women. You would think that displays/mannequins could be over turned...a fire alarm pulled...something to distract the perp. This is just so odd and scary.


29 posted on 02/05/2008 12:08:11 PM PST by PennsylvaniaMom (I do not want people to be agreeable, as it saves me the trouble of liking them. Jane Austen.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

In other news a school bus careened off a bridge. killing 19.

I’m sick of school buses.


30 posted on 02/05/2008 12:09:15 PM PST by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Sorry, you are naive to think that the only doors into the mall are the ones you go through to get to the stores.

You are naive to think the criminal mind will adhere to following the rules.

You are naive to think that putting a machine in place for the appearence of safety is nothing more than a false sense of security.

I carry, because I can. I carry, because the police are not liable for my safety, I am. I carry, because there are people in this world who have no remorse for taking life from others. I carry, because I am a valuable contributor to society and not a victim to be slaughtered like sheep. I carry because I am trained and willing to defend others. Whether that happens is not dependent on me, but the resolution should it happen may rest with me.

Had ANY of those women been trained, armed, and able, they possibly would not be dead.

The message Concealed Carry delivers to the criminal element is simple.

You do not know who is carrying, and most likely will get shot trying to commit any atrocity.

31 posted on 02/05/2008 12:09:55 PM PST by Pistolshot (Remember, no matter how bad your life is, someone is watching and enjoying your suffering.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Why would you need a gun at the mall?

This incident didn't answer that question for you?

32 posted on 02/05/2008 12:10:08 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government, Benito Guilinni a short man in search of a balcony)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Why would you need a gun at the mall?

PUT THE KOOL AID DOWN AND STEP AWAY FROM THE PITCHER! Are you daffy, trying to play Devil's advocate or are you just a trolling flaming liberal? I deal with criminals on a daily basis and I know what's out there. That's why I carry at the mall and anywhere else I happen to go. And when I get home, I don't put my pistol up. Although I live in an upscale neighborhood, that's no guarantee that a home invasion can't happen. Anymore you need to be prepared all the time.

33 posted on 02/05/2008 12:13:00 PM PST by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: Clemenza

I had no idea there was a large Jewish population in Jeffrey Manor. I thought they were farther north in South Shore and Hyde Park. Those used to be such beautiful neighborhoods. I went out with a Jewish guy when I was in my teens. His grandmother lived across from the country club. Her apartment was HUGE. They just don’t build apartments like that with so much character any more.

I was born in Hyde Park — at Lying-In Hospital. I feel so old.


34 posted on 02/05/2008 12:14:35 PM PST by Mad-Margaret (Remember I'm a kook, scammer, or troll the next time you want money.)
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To: Pistolshot

Very well put!

Looks like you did all the typing for me.


35 posted on 02/05/2008 12:15:54 PM PST by voteNRA
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To: nuconvert
When I first heard about this, I figured it would turn out to be an ex-husband or ex-boyfriend of one of the women, not a stranger.

I thought the same thing. Why rob a retail store right after opening? Most places only open with $200 cash in each register, plus this time of year people are still using gift cards and making returns.

Tinley Park is a nice place. I hope they catch this person soon.

36 posted on 02/05/2008 12:17:00 PM PST by retrokitten
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To: Mad-Margaret
In grad school, I started out on 60th and Drexel (right on the Midway), then lived off of Milwaukee for a few months, then lived off of upper Broadway near Lawrence (and the Red Line).

I believe I stopped at this mall once. Really tragic.

37 posted on 02/05/2008 12:17:17 PM PST by Clemenza (Ronald Reagan was a "Free Traitor", Like Me ;-))
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To: Puppage

Not Chicago.


38 posted on 02/05/2008 12:18:28 PM PST by toddlintown (Building More Highways For Children---Huckleberry Talking Point)
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To: Clemenza

This one is brand new, off 191st and Harlem. It’s near the Tweeter Center. The area has been really, really built up in the last few years.


39 posted on 02/05/2008 12:18:57 PM PST by retrokitten
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To: Clemenza

D’oh! Never mind...you were talking about something else.

Slinking back to lurkdom....


40 posted on 02/05/2008 12:19:43 PM PST by retrokitten
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To: PennsylvaniaMom

Agree, never cooperate with a guy with a gun and duct tape that wants to take you to a back room. There were five women there and they should have made a run for it or tried to push him down and then run. Sure, you risk being shot, but the alternative is risking execution of all.


41 posted on 02/05/2008 12:20:33 PM PST by RicocheT
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To: retrokitten

I only know Harlem further north, where all the good Italian delis are. ;-)


42 posted on 02/05/2008 12:20:42 PM PST by Clemenza (Ronald Reagan was a "Free Traitor", Like Me ;-))
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Why would you need a gun at the mall?

Because there are wolves who on occasion come hunting for sheep at the mall. Trolley Square in SLC, Westroads Mall in Omaha, and now this one in Tinley Park.

If everybody went through a metal detector, and no guns were allowed in, what would be the problem?

What happens when the guard(s) at the metal detectors get popped in the head by the wolf, and the wolf goes right on through the metal detector into the mall full of unarmed sheep? I'll tell you what happens - we get another mall full of dead, innocent sheep.

I’m just exploring ideas on what we can do to prevent our malls from becoming shooting galleries.

Our malls have already become shooting galleries, and what you propose disarms only the law-abiding sheepdogs who desire to protect themselves, their families, and possibly even you. If you want to be a sheep, fine with me, continue to be one. But don't suggest policies that tell the sheepdog he can't protect himself or his loved ones.

If you want to be a sheepdog, I say to you welcome to the fraternity, and strongly suggest you read Jeffrey Snyder's "Nation of Cowards", and also the essay by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman "On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs", from his book On Combat.

FRegards,

H-T

43 posted on 02/05/2008 12:21:17 PM PST by Hat-Trick (Do you trust a government that cannot trust you with guns?)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
So, as distasteful as this all is, you got a better idea?

Yes I mentioned it in the first post. If I'm going to the mall these days, I am packing. No one is searching my pockets either. (Then again, I don't carry my weapon on my pocket either). I think it's BS someone is going through your purse too. You know, in this country we have the right to keep and bear arms. That means CARRY A WEAPON. So carry one, and tell them to piss off if they try to "search your purse". If they aren't a cop, they have no business doing it.
44 posted on 02/05/2008 12:22:57 PM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

So.. I was wrong in assuming you were JOKING???


45 posted on 02/05/2008 12:26:59 PM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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To: toddlintown
Ugh

See post 3 & 5

46 posted on 02/05/2008 12:29:27 PM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
I have a solution. Level the playing field. Let people carry weapons to defend themselves. I have carried a pocket knife since I was in Junior High School in the 1950s. Yes,I did carry it in school. It fell out of my pocket one day in class. The teacher found it and returned it next day. I have a pocket knife on me as I type. Just in case you are wondering, The only person I have ever cut was myself(accident, finger). I carried a 22 rifle in a skit in High School. Several other boys were in that skit. They all carried rifles. No one got shot.

Women have been known to kill other people. They can and do carry weapons. A man can use a woman to carry a weapon in her purse. I sincerely hope you don’t get too offended if your purse is searched. If that offends you, I suggest you consider how a man might feel.

Stupidity cost a lot more than a Metal Detector and a cop.

;0)

47 posted on 02/05/2008 12:29:54 PM PST by seemoAR
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Men are primarily the violent ones, not women.

Women can be just as violent. Most children killed by a parent, are killed by the Mother.

48 posted on 02/05/2008 12:30:24 PM PST by fanfan ("We don't start fights my friends, but we finish them, and never leave until our work is done."PMSH)
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

***So, as distasteful as this all is, you got a better idea?***

Should the mall in my area institute such draconian regulations for shoppers, it would see the LAST of me. As is, there WERE a few places around town that I refused to visit because they adorned their store with a sign that read in part “Pursuant to Section 30.06....” that forbid CCW in their place of business. They were removed at all the places I cared about because business declined and/ or store owners were contacted and informed that it was believed they could be sued by citizens attacked in their premises when they forbid us to carry.

So, while I respect any businesses right to conduct business as they see fit, I hope they respect my right to take my money elsewhere.

***I hate the fact that men’s pockets aren’t searched.***

Reminds me of a famous movie: “Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?”


49 posted on 02/05/2008 12:30:46 PM PST by Lord_Calvinus
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp
Why would you need a gun at the mall? If everybody went through a metal detector, and no guns were allowed in, what would be the problem? I admit it’s not a perfect solution, but do you have a better idea? I’m just exploring ideas on what we can do to prevent our malls from becoming shooting galleries.

Are you actually being SERIOUS here? I can not BELIEVE you're pushing this liberal nonsense on this site.

"Exploring ideas"? How about everyone carrying their own weapon?

"Why would you need a gun in the mall?" Golly, I dunno, maybe because some criminal maggot with intent to harm others HAS ONE TOO? I think that if you had me, a 50 year old guy standing there next to you, trained in the use of several types of weapons, 20-something years of military service and a law-abiding citizen, when some dumbass bad guy decides he wanted to shoot the place up -- I'd be better at protecting your life than 1) YOU would, 2) Anyone else standing near by without a gun or 3) ANY cop within 20 minutes of the place.... why? BECAUSE I'M THERE.

There are plenty of reasons to carry your own weapon, in the MALL - and most of them are gang members, criminals and would-be robbers. The rest are walking-around murderers, and those who wannabemurderers... like the guy that killed those women.

And you're telling me you think a METAL DETECTOR might have stopped this?
50 posted on 02/05/2008 12:35:54 PM PST by Rick.Donaldson (http://www.transasianaxis.com - Visit for lastest on DPRK/Russia/China/Etc --Fred Thompson for Prez.)
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