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Obama and Romney misfire on guns (Romney flip-flops, repeats NRA support lie)
ABC NEWS ^ | February 4, 2008 | Jake Tapper, Senior National Correspondent

Posted on 02/05/2008 12:00:01 PM PST by AFA-Michigan

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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: death2tyrants

“I didn’t see any personal attack.”

Let me help you out.

“ out right lie. And you repeating it shows how low the McCain people will stoop.”

Both a personal attack, and a false McCain conspiracy theory.

42 posted on 02/05/2008 1:43:27 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: death2tyrants

Actually, death, I was referring to Romney’s record of endorsing Roe, abortion on demand, gays in the military, Kennedy’s federal “gay rights” legislation, homosexual Scoutmasters, gun control, opposing a Marriage Protection Amendment to his state constitution, voting in the 1992 Democratic presidential primary, dissing Ronald Reagan and Jesse Helms, being endorsed by the homosexual Log Cabin Republicans and the Majority for Choice PAC, etc., etc., etc.

That left-wing record.

43 posted on 02/05/2008 1:45:48 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: AFA-Michigan

None of which raised my taxes. Why did McCain oppose Bush’s tax cuts? Also, why does McCain believe that the terrorists at Gitmo should have access to the U.S. courts?

46 posted on 02/05/2008 2:18:52 PM PST by death2tyrants
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To: death2tyrants

No clue. I don’t support McCain, who opposes a Marriage Protection Amendment, supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research (the destruction of human life), and believes it should be criminal for citizen organizations to tell their supporters the truth about politicians’ records.

As the LA Times reported over a year ago, I was invited to meet McCain and refused so long as he opposes constitutionally protecting marriage.

All that said, I trust him more than I do Mitt Romney. I don’t believe much of anything Romney says, except of course that he’s the candidate of “change” (on abortion, some of the homosexual agenda, multiple other issues).

47 posted on 02/05/2008 2:28:33 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: AFA-Michigan

As an NRA man I researched NRA’s archive history of McCain. He gave us McCain-Feingold law that cut off NRA free speech; he gave us McCain-Reed law that closed the gun show “loophole”; and...oh yes...he a big supporter of the Federal Assault firearms ban.

These are facts guy...not misstatements.

With heroes like the Mac who needs enemies!

48 posted on 02/05/2008 2:29:38 PM PST by firefox ((Vote Democrat...Its Easier Than Thinking!))
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To: firefox

Romney also supports the federal Assault Weapons Ban and the Brady Bill.

49 posted on 02/05/2008 3:55:03 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: AFA-Michigan

Do you honestly think people might change their mind and support McCain over Romney ? How much are you paid by McCain?
I could care less what Romney said in Massaslewchutts. The guy if nominated and elected as President will know it was the conservatives who got him the job. I atleast like a candidate who understands he better flip to the conservative side than flop to the libs like McCain.

51 posted on 02/05/2008 4:12:46 PM PST by caffe (please, no more consensus)
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To: AFA-Michigan
1. approval or sanction

3. formal and explicit approval; "a Democrat usually gets the union's endorsement" [syn: sanction]

Those are the closet definition meanings to the usage of the term in political speech.


7a.To aid the cause, policy, or interests of: supported her in her election campaign. 7b.To argue in favor of; advocate: supported lower taxes.
That's the best definition related to politics.

So as you can see, "endorsement" is a formal term for an expression of generally exclusive approval of a candidate, implying that people of like mind should vote for the candidate.

Support is an action taken to advance the cause of a candidate, without an explicit request to vote for the candidate.

This is not a meaningless distinction. There are organizations who cannot "endorse" a candidate, but who can provide support.

For example, We all know that Rush Limbaugh has NOT endorsed any candidate. But Mitt Romney would be correct to note that Rush has supported his candidacy, as would Fred Thompson and Rudy Giuliani.

Rush supports all the candidates who agree with his idea of conservatism, and endorses none of them.

The ABC quote is wrong, but by tomorrow I'll be correcting people who will say "But this time Romney said "endorse"", when he actually didn't.

A candidate would never use the term "support" if he got an actual endorsement, because "endorsement" is the term for a formal statement of acceptance. So while it is true that "endorsement" is a form of support, there are other forms of support which fall short of an endorsement.

In libel law, one of the criteria for determining if something is a lie is to determine the probability that people would have misunderstood. Since in this case the endorsement would be common public knowledge, and the campaign specifically said they did not mean "endorsement", it is clear that "support" was not meant as "endorse".

It is also clear that Romney now is quite interested in claiming the NRA's approval, when he previously did not. That would have been a rational argument to make, but this "he claimed an endorsement" is just silly.

52 posted on 02/05/2008 8:56:22 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: caffe

Caffe, you need to trade out your talking point sheet. I support the governor who swept the South tonight.

And given that I’ve not hesitated to point out to the media that McCain voted against the Marriage Protection Amendment, supports federal funding of medical experimentation on prenatal children in their embryonic stage, and wants to suppress First Amendment free speech rights, McCain inexplicably has thus far paid me...nothing!

53 posted on 02/05/2008 9:09:01 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: CharlesWayneCT

And in December, Romney used both words...”support” and “endorsement.” (see post 3 above for exact quotes and link to original story)

He wasn’t telling the truth in December.

And he wasn’t telling the truth this past Saturday, given that he had neither the NRA’s “support” or “endorsement” when he was running for governor.

So all your attempts in the previous post to spin an impenetrable web of convoluted irrelevancies in hopes of distracting readers away from the fact that he once again stated something that’s

54 posted on 02/05/2008 9:19:11 PM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: AFA-Michigan

He used those words for two different things. He used “support” to indicate what they did for him when he was running, and he used “endorsed” to describe their action regarding the gun bill he signed.

Both of those were accurate, as the NRA officially called for the gun bill to pass.

Some WP blogger couldn’t understand english (as usual) and the mitt-haters took his lie and used it.

“What I did AS governor” is not “running for Governor”. It’s not “parsing words”, it’s looking at their clear meaning.

55 posted on 02/05/2008 10:16:38 PM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Funny how you embrace “plain meaning” when you (incorrectly) think it makes your case.

But reject “plain meaning” when it comes to other words such as “all” and “people” and “participate.”

56 posted on 02/06/2008 12:06:59 AM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: AFA-Michigan

I still can’t believe you don’t understand the simple set theory.

all leaders participate.

NOT all participants lead.

Arnold Shwarzenegger can participate in the Presidential Elections. Arnold Shwarzennegger cannot LEAD the country.

57 posted on 02/06/2008 6:31:39 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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To: AFA-Michigan
McCain is a Soros puppet and Huck is a Rockefeller Republican. These people are the globlist. WAKE UP!!!!!
58 posted on 02/06/2008 6:34:13 AM PST by bmwcyle (the Beltway crowd is like a bunch of women who have started menstruating together)
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To: bmwcyle

Really? I wasn’t aware that Rockefeller supported a Human Life Amendment and a Marriage Protection amendment and full 2nd Amendment rights.

That’s a newsflash, for sure.

59 posted on 02/06/2008 11:11:02 AM PST by AFA-Michigan
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To: CharlesWayneCT

I still can’t believe the way you’re willing to make yourself look foolish to relieve Romney of responsibility for his own statements and actions.

“Participate” is the larger set which incluces the subset of leaders.

Romney said “all people” — including homosexuals — should be allowed to “participate” in Scouting, and he did not exclude from his endorsement of such participation that subset of participants who serve as adult leaders.

Because he chooses his words as meticulously as Bill Clnton, and because he did not exclude them, homosexual adults participating as leaders is logically included in his endorsement.

And simply put, you cannot prove otherwise except by claiming to be able to read his mind. You can only make yourself continue to look foolish by trying.

60 posted on 02/06/2008 11:17:39 AM PST by AFA-Michigan
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