Posted on 02/08/2008 9:06:24 AM PST by kiriath_jearim
A proposal facing action by the U.S. Senate would force National Park and National Wildlife Refuge managers to allow more loaded, hidden handguns in national parks and wildlife refuges, endangering the public as well as wildlife.
"This is more of the same from the gun pushers - any gun, anywhere, at any time," said Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "Why are we putting hikers, campers and families at risk by introducing loaded, hidden handguns into our national parks and refuges? This proposal is a bad idea that the Senate should reject."
Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, an ally of the gun lobby, plans on offering an amendment to a broader bill on public lands issues that would weaken reasonable gun restrictions in Federal lands adopted in 1982 by the Reagan Administration for the National Park Service after extensive comments and review.
At the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, this amendment would undermine the firearms policy discretion of land managers who allow firearms for hunting in many refuges during hunting season, but prohibit them when no hunting is in season or where no hunting is allowed.
The Coburn proposal was the subject of a letter sent in December to Secretary of the Interior Dirk Kempthorne. The letter, signed by a number of U.S. Senators, called for the elimination of common-sense limits that allow park visitors to have firearms as long as they are unloaded and lawfully stored.
Late last week, gun violence prevention groups - the Brady Campaign, the Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence and the Violence Policy Center - sent a letter to Secretary Kempthorne indicating that "given the heightened security risks in the post-9/11 world, as well as contemporary concerns about poaching on federal lands, we find the Reagan Administration regulation to be both necessary and appropriate." The letter is available at http://www.bradycampaign.org/action/parks_letter.pdf
A letter sent to Senators last Friday, signed by the Association of National Park Rangers, the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees and the U.S. Park Ranger Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police states: "In our view, Senator Coburn's amendment will make poaching in parks even more prevalent than it already is, thus reducing the opportunity for children, families, and Americans from all walks of life to easily view wildife that so many parks provide."
Separately, the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees stated in a news release that "It is a hoax to suggest that there is some big demand out there for people to be able to tote semi-automatic weapons on the trails of Yellowstone or nine-millimeter pistols on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. The current rules in no way prohibit guns in parks, but they do work to discourage that tiny percentage of irresponsible individuals who would engage in poaching and target practice at the expense of irreplaceable natural and historic sites."
As the nation's largest, non-partisan, grassroots organization leading the fight to prevent gun violence, the Brady Campaign, with its dedicated network of Million Mom March Chapters, works to enact and enforce sensible gun laws, regulations and public policies. The Brady Campaign is devoted to creating an America free from gun violence, where all Americans are safe at home, at school, at work, and in our communities.
The National Park Service would be surprised at how many concealed weapons people carry while they are in the Parks.
There’s never a Ranger around when you need one.
Does the Sun-Herald actually do any reporting, or do they simply regurgitate press releases?
This is actually quite funny. Who will enforce it? The park rangers? I know they wouldn’t even attempt it in Alaska. These anti people live on another planet, maybe they will enforce it for the park service.
Our View: Federal lands should have consistent gun rules (From Idaho)
The key words in the PArk rules are ...loaded..
Carry what you will, just take the magazine out.
I have had prople freak out when I open carry and they see the pistol on my hip.
I assure them that if they are attacked by any of the local wildlife, I will hurry to report it to the local park Ranger. That usually nets me a few odd looks, I guess they just don’t ‘get it’.
Law or no, anyone who ventures into the wilderness without a firearm is a moron.
Right. I didn't think you would know the answer to that question, either.
Paul needs to be in jail for “aiding and abetting” and “accessory to murder”.
Care to elaborate on the legalities thereof?
WastedYears typing
That title is very misleading, which is the gun-grabber’s credo.
Carrying a pistol concealed on your person is not the same as having pistols hidden throughout the parks, which is what the title means.
No kidding. They way they worded it, I was ready to get a GPS and go on a geocaching hunt.
Silly liberals
Christmas woulda come early for you.
I'm far more concerned about Loaded, Hidden Hyperbole.
Sounds like more of the same from the nutless gun grabbers - no guns, nowhere, ever.
You need to watch out for those wascally Wugers, hiding in the bushes, waiting for an innocent hiker to wander by.
” The current rules in no way prohibit guns in parks, but they do work to discourage that tiny percentage of irresponsible individuals who would engage in poaching and target practice at the expense of irreplaceable natural and historic sites.”
Lord knows, the already existing laws against poaching would not deter these people if they were allowed to legally carry in the park...
Anyone who thinks that the wildlife is dangerous hasn't watched a Disney movie. Grizzly Bears and Alligators are just like people and are simply misunderstood.
It's important for the children that we keep these restrictions. If not, minorities and poor people will be hurt the worst.
If I remember correctly Ron Paul, FR’s favorite kook, is for allowing visitors to pack heat while in National Parks.
National Forests usually follow laws of the state where the forest is located. (so YMMV)
In Alaska: (from NPS.gov)
May I carry a gun in the park?
It is legal to possess a firearm anywhere in the park in accordance with all other applicable state and federal laws. This is different than the rule in most Lower 48 National Park areas, but is allowed here for protection from bears and other dangerous wildlife. Hunting is strictly prohibited within the park.
From the search function of the same site:
19. Can I carry my gun while hiking in national and state parks? A quick summary for firearms: NO in some national parks, but YES in others. National forests, state parks, fish & wildlife refuges, BLM land, general state lands: YES, but, check concealment laws. In other words, always check before carrying firearms.Alaska Public Lands Information Center scan help you contact the correct park or agency
SO - in Alaska, where I live, it’s a no brainer.
OTOH, we see in the Springfield Armory Park site.....
NOTE: No Personal Firearms [or weapons of any kind] allowed to be carried.
No personal firearms, knives over 2 inches, or other weapons of any kind are allowed on Federal Property due to Federal and State Laws even if you have a license to carry firearms. Please don’t bring them with you to this site.
Lastly, if you look at legal definitions you typically see: classify a "loaded" gun as one with "a shell or cartridge in either the magazine or chamber thereof, and in the case of a muzzle loading shotgun or rifle, containing powder in the flash pan or in the bore or chamber or containing a percussion cap and shot or ball."
If you have questions on the local rules, ask. Bottom line, you may carry anyplace, you just have to be prepared to live with any fallout.
Hidden guns!! Oooooo, so scarey!!!
Fixed! He was obviously misquoted.
On another thread he wants to forgive GI Bill and school loan benefits to deceased soldiers.
When will the kookiness end?
Oh, the horror of it all! Some hidden gun may jump up from the grass like a rattlesnake and shoot some poor chid’ren.
Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, an ally of the gun lobby, plans on offering an amendment to a broader bill on public lands issues that would weaken reasonable gun restrictions in Federal lands adopted in 1982 by the Reagan Administration for the National Park Service after extensive comments and review.
Poll on Sen. Coburn's website:
"Should law abiding citizens be permitted to carry guns in national parks?"
Yes --- 86%
No --- 15%
2154 total votes
The forest service knows full well there are plenty of guns in the forests. They’re used to protect the hundreds of thousands of acres under dope cultivation by Mexican Drug Cartels. Anyone going into these ‘protected’ areas without a gun in crazy. Many people have been shot.
The Mexican border has moved 800 miles north
(Photos of these camps here)
http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/search?q=green+cards+and+gangs
DOBBS: Mexican drug cartels are operating not only with impunity across the border with Mexico, but with impunity deep within the United States; 800 miles from Mexico, drug traffickers are now operating on the California/Oregon border in our nation’s national forests.
Authorities, this week, seized $80 million of marijuana. But officials say the bust was only the tip of the iceberg.
CASEY WIAN, CNN (on the ground in the Siskiyou Mountains): Just after dawn Tuesday, 100 law enforcement officers meet at a staging area in the Klamath National Forest.
DARRELL FROST, SISKIYOU COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPT.: The Mexican cartel type stuff, is these folks are willing to protect their marijuana groves and so the potential for trauma from gunshot wounds is high.
WIAN: Deputies head out to set up a perimeter hoping to catch growers before they flee. Then the raid begins. (on camera): Marijuana gardens are located in such remote terrain that sheriff deputies must be air lifted in by helicopter, two at a time on a rope. Another chopper hovers above the garden providing cover in case these growers shoot at the incoming deputies.
WIAN: And the money appears headed to Mexico. From the living quarters and supplies, to sophisticated irrigation systems, these gardens bare all the signs of Mexican drug traffickers. The SWAT team pursued about a dozen men though the thick timber.
WIAN: Though they escaped, deputies seized plenty of evidence, including boxes of .45 caliber bullets, notebooks in Spanish and a cell phone. Investigators are tracking the kingpin.
LT. JIM BETTS, SISKIYOU COUNTY SHERIFF’S DEPT.: We’ve got a rural area, that hunting season is going to be starting in another week. There’s going to be a lot of people coming into the woods here. And for the safety of those people, we needed to get this out of here.
WIAN: Eight hundred miles from the Mexican border, Mexican drug traffickers are spreading throughout this and other national forests. But a familiar problem is on the traffickers’ side. Federal money for operations like this is scarce.
JOHN GAINES, CALIF. BUREAU OF NARC ENFORCEMENT: These are all damage to our natural resources that our citizens, you know, shouldn’t have to put up from the occupying force of foreigners, that are coming in here and taking over our land.
FOLLOWUP: Michelle Malkin followed this story further in her article “GANGLAND”.
www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin030205.php3
“The most notorious criminal alien gang enterprise on the American landscape is Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13, the El Salvadoran-based syndicate engaged in murder, drug trafficking, and human smuggling across Central America and the United States. MS-13 members, many of them juveniles, have been implicated in gang rapes, machete mutilations, and cop killings on both coasts. According to Siskiyou County Sheriff Rick Riggins, MS-13 paraphernalia and weaponry have been discovered deep on federal forest land in northern California, where Latino gangs have established massive marijuana-growing operations.
Most recently, Ebner Anibal Rivera Paz, the reputed leader of MS-13’s Honduran branch, was nabbed in Texas last month after escaping from his native country, where he’s wanted in connection with the Christmas holiday massacre of 28 people, including six children. “[snip]
See post 31
Everybody knows that criminals wouldn’t DARE to bring a gun into a place where it is against the law.
Just hope you don’t come across an illegal patch of pot protected by armed illegals..
Sounds like the people at the Brady Bunch are loaded all the time.
Why, if Meredith Emerson had had a CCW pistol in that Georgia park last December, she might have hurt that poor old serial killer Mr. Hilton!
bump to above
The title sounded like a GPS game to find caches of "loaded, hidden, handguns".
Heck, that’s the best place to hide your guns, that way, they are not on property that can be connected to you. And they wont accidentally get dug up because of development. ;]
Simple solution, open carry.
Bump
Speaking as an ex-moron, I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
What a wuss he must be!
ZANY I tell ya!
I tried carrying a concealed Ranger, but he was too heavy and he wanted none of that. Now I pack a pistol.
"You will only make it angry."
It then goes on to suggest, "if the bear charges you strike it on the nose and face with your fists to drive it away."
Doh!
If a bullet is just gonna piss off a bear, what do they think one's fists will do?
Late Fall I was exploring deep in the Upper Still Water Forest and found a bouldered-off road. IT had numerous spray-painted signs, which said, “KEEP OUT. You will be shot.” It also had swastikas and what not.
My first thought was dope growers.
You are correct.
I might have to exercise that encouragement.
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