Posted on 02/09/2008 3:12:40 PM PST by Graybeard58
According to the Family Research Council, a new Barna poll shows that the "born again," whatever that might this week, now overwhelmingly support Hillary (20% of the "born again" vote) and Obama (18%).
How is it possible that seemingly devout Christians could support the party that stands like a phalanx behind partial birth abortion and redefining marriage into oblivion and opposes biblical free market principles?
Look no further than "America's Pastor" and the Saddleback Church, where Obama and Hillary were guests last year. Rick Warren, while claiming to be acting in a Christian, conciliatory manner, treating these leftwing politicians as though they were ideological equals (perhaps they are), was in fact spreading the message that it's ok for evangelicals to vote for pro-abortion politicians who spurn the free market, because they are decent folks like him, concerned with the same issues, like AIDS, poverty, and peace. Thus his message is in line with the rest of the "religious left," which, in terms of social issues, can be summed up:
Abortion, marriage and the like social issues pale against the problems of poverty, the environment and world peace. The Democrat message of ending poverty and disease and seeking world peace is a Christian one. It is un-Christian to oppose abortion and gay marriage because this sullies non-Christian sensibilities.
These people have forgotten the lessons of the War on Poverty and the lessons on appeasement taught by the clueless Neville Chamberlain. Sheep-like, their followers fall into line.
The San Francisco Chronicle reported last May:
"Howard Dean, Democratic party chairman, recently credited Rick Warren and Joel Osteen with helping the Democrats.
"Dean specifically cited the positive impacts of Christian leaders such as Rick Warren — [...] — and of young pastor Joel Osteen, .... who has welcomed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to his Houston-based Lakewood Church.
'Those people don't beat up on other people to make their point and raise a lot of money,' he said. 'And we need to reach out to those folks, and work with them, and not be afraid. There is common cause with folks that we never thought we had common cause with.
'That's how you grow (the Democratic Party) to be inclusive and to control America again ..'"
When all the celebrating is over, the purpose-driven pastor and prosperity-driven pastor, respectively, and their ilk have succeeded in blinding people to the truth, of which older, biblically minded religious leaders once convinced the majority of their flock, namely, that the platforms of the Democrat party are inconsistent with the message of Christ, who did not support killing the unborn, command taxpayers to care for the poor or order nations to make peace with implacable enemies bent on destroying them. In fact He said "you will always have the poor with you," and that he had come to "bring not peace but a sword." Unlike Confucius, for example, He was indifferent to the workings of government. He healed the sick and fed the multitude only to show who He was. Thus when some of that multitude followed Him across the sea and asked Him to "show us a sign," He understood they didn't really want or need a sign, because He had already fed them miraculously. They hinted that the "sign" should be in the form of handouts, manna from heaven. They wanted socialism, a perfect Kingdom of God free of hunger, i.e., essentially the Democrat platform.
But Jesus made it clear that the only bread he could offer them was the bread of life, whereupon many left and never walked with him again. These "social issues" Christians were the faithless secularist hangers-on with ulterior motives.
Most church denominations today have distanced themselves so far from Christ's message that their founders would no longer recognize them. Major denominations have openly Sodomite pastors with "partners" to whom they are "married," legally or de facto. Most denominations will not oppose abortion and some favor terrorist Palestine over democratic Israel to the point of boycotting companies that do business with Israel. Most also refuse to defend traditional marriage. Most denominations, even the most "fundamental" ones, believe it is un-Christian to love one's country, and gauche to deem America a world leader. All in all, most do not deserve to be called Christians and, minus the government incentives, many would voluntarily drop the "Christian" label in a heartbeat.
All of which brings us to a hard question:
If tax freedom, faith-based initiatives and other government support produces a net negative for orthodox Christianity of the kind that Christ and the apostles would recognize as their own, if Wiccans, Unitarians and terror-sponsoring mosques, are equally exempt, and if the IRS threatens right-wing churches with rescission of tax exemption while tacitly approving openly Marxist churches, isn't it time to rethink tax exempt status for churches? This is not as hard a question as you may think. Multimillion dollar church buildings dot the landscape, many with pastors receiving salaries in 6 digits. It should be crystal clear that, even without tax deductions, such affluent congregations as these would have no trouble building and maintaining adequate buildings and paying their pastors well enough, if their flocks were sincere and not money-driven.
There are a few churches that already refuse the tax deduction, most of them poor. They are to be lauded for sticking to the original gospel message, not watering it down to hang onto a government subsidy with strings, nay, ropes, attached to it. Jesus said his followers would be persecuted and not approved by men ("woe unto you when men speak well of you").
Tax exempt status isn't persecution. It's approval. And at this point in history, it appears to be a net liability for the authentic Gospel of Jesus Christ. Isn't it time to give it a decent, Christian burial?
Contact the author: don@zoilandonsplace.com
In other Barna research, it was found that only 9% of Evangelical adults had a basic Christian worldview, and only 4% of their kids had a Christian worldview on the most basic issues of faith. A couple months ago, Willow Creek came out with research that showed that their people didn’t know anything about the Christian faith and so they are going to re-tool their huge ministry. We have a bunch of people in churches who don’t know anything about the implications of their faith, and it’s probably because their pastors, like Warren and Hybels, are NOT educating them in those areas.
Rick Warren says you are dangerous - right up there with all types of fundamentalism. Baddddd freeeepperr!!!
No fundamentalist has ever supported Warren. You reveal your own distance from Christ with such comments.
Anyway, part of the reason why we have Godless, unrighteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic, dangerous people as candidates for president is that one way God judges nations is to allow them to have evil leaders.
This country still has not suffered for slaughtering 40+ million children, kicking God out of every possible aspect of American life, taking a behavior that God despises and has singled out as an abomination and not only tolerating it and accepting it but enshrining it as protected and equating the sickening, abominable behavior in the area of marriage with the God-created institution between a man and a woman. We still have not been judged for that, but we will be.
It truly is a frightening, horrific thing to be in a position where God has turned His back on you and has given you over to your sin and no longer tries to turn you to Him and away from that which will destroy you for all eternity. That is what is happening to America, like it has to other nations in world history who have forgotten and rejected God.
Believe me, our fun hasn't even begun yet. And as for the "purpose-driven "pastors""?
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. (Matthew 7:15)
The worldview of the democrat is in opposition to God. Therefore, anyone calling himself a "pastor" who has democrats speak before their congregations and who preaches acceptance of democrat policies, which, with the acquiescence of the American people over the years has landed us in the pitiable situation in which we now find ourselves, is not of God but is of the one who is at war with God.
I believe that the Bible is the unerring word of God. Does that define a “fundamentalist?
Of course a lot of people would agree with that but come to different conclusions about interpretations. Hence, hundreds of branches of Christianity. Not to mention the cults.
I cringe when I read people say, "God's in charge", he left us in charge (free will) and that's why it's such a mess. If we allowed God to be in charge, we wouldn't have the problems that we do. Abortion is an unseakable abomination, anyone embracing "Choice" is wrong period. Any preacher backing those people is also wrong.
whoa! Editor-surveyor ...you are WRONG!
When St Ashley Smith was all the rage among , yes, fundamentalists...the fundamentalists in the beginning of the rick Warren hysteria were all in favor of him!
The only fundamentalists that didn’t support Warren were the televangelists that became jealous of the money he was raking in.
And none of my opinions about fundamentalists ( even if my opinions are generalizations.. I will concede that) or about Warren have ANYTHING to do with how close or not I am to Christ.
By the way, who are YOU to tell me and judge how close or not close I am to Christ.,,,,time to check out moats in eyes.
We have free will, and we have chosen to sin and rebel, and so God will let our sin and rebellion and rejection of Him play out to it's logical end and we will get to have our sin and rebellion and everything that goes with it.
God is in ultimate control, and God will make things right in His time, not in our time and not when we think He should. We were not around when He created the earth, and the heavens, and He does not consult with us to get our opinion on how He should deal with a rebellious human race. We wanted our sin, we got it, and we get all the wonderful consequences that go with wallowing in sin. And when it's finished, the entire universe and all creation will know for all eternity what sin is and how much God hates sin and the utter destruction and devastation that sin brings.
Yes, our free will has made a mess of things, and it will be allowed to play out to the end. What we should all be very afraid of is what the playing out to the end will entail in the way of God's anger.
People are starting to call themselves evangelical even though they embrace abortion, gay rights, global warming, etc.
The media are too PC to call them by their real name: minions of the Devil.
Oh God is in charge Graybeard58, but we also have a system in the US that allows leaders to be chosen for good or ill.
When the people slumber, or forget God, we have my tagline Isaiah 3.1-12 or so, the effiminate will rule over us, along with the child like while suffering extortion.
Warren and Olsteen are successful authors, people lean on their understanding more then they would bother to read the Scriptures to see if what they are saying is true.
They aren't. It is all about how many more AMPs they can push their speakers and which band plays first. Then there is the dance show and stand up routine by the preacher on why he needs more money!
How is it possible that seemingly devout Christians could support the party that stands like a phalanx behind partial birth abortion and redefining marriage into oblivion and opposes biblical free market principles?Look no further than "America's Pastor" and the Saddleback Church, where Obama and Hillary were guests last year. Rick Warren...
hmmmmm I think you were just telling me something about this.
Yes, that bit of unplesantness has to be done with the selection of our own nominee.
“Could this poll include African-American voters, a lot of whom would likely consider themselves “born again” but who usually vote Democrat anyway?”
I’m sure it also includes many ‘born again’ whites whose Daddy, GrandDaddy, GreatGrandDaddy, GreatGreatGrandDaddy, etc. always voted democrat. Probably a bunch of union-to-the-core as well. Now, add in the African-American and no one should be suprised at this.
Some of these God books are great but overshadow a fundamental foundation. They miss the point by not additionally touching on right and moral behavior as specified in the greatest simplicity in the 10 commandments is the first step in not being filled with sin that blocks us from God.
Otherwise it is all just flimsy.
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