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Smoky bar triggered fatal asthma attack
Reutors ^ | updated 5:38 p.m. CT, Fri., Feb. 8, 2008

Posted on 02/10/2008 6:00:34 AM PST by justkillingtime

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To: justkillingtime
Although she had prescriptions for an assortment of drugs to prevent and treat asthma attacks, she was reported to only use them when she was having breathing difficulty.

She managed her disease badly by not taking her meds as prescribed AND got a job at a bar...Darwin award IMO.

101 posted on 02/10/2008 10:53:59 AM PST by Dianna
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To: justkillingtime

Rosenman said the woman had asthma since age 2. Her asthma was poorly controlled. She had made four visits to her doctor in the year before her death for flare-ups, and had been treated in a hospital emergency department two to three times that year.

Although she had prescriptions for an assortment of drugs to prevent and treat asthma attacks, she was reported to only use them when she was having breathing difficulty.

On the evening of her death, she had no inhaler with her.


Sorry for the long article quote, but that’s the reason she died; not smoke, but uncontrolled asthma which could have been triggered by just about anything.

But never let the nanny state gestapo pass up a chance to use someone’s death to further their cause. I’m just surprised the smoke nazis got to her story before the free gubmint healthcare people did.

My asthma is pretty well controlled. Yet, I never go anywhere, even a short trip to the store, without my acute attack inhaler close by.


102 posted on 02/10/2008 11:02:10 AM PST by kenth
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To: Scotswife
It is very expensive stuff, and I could see if money was a problem - then a person might be reluctant to go through the inhaler too quickly - developing a tendency to only take a puff when you are already in trouble.

What type of inhaler are you talking about? My older son was asthmatic and we would occasionally lose albuterol inhalers (the emergency one). A pharmacy once told me that they couldn't fill the scrip because the insurance wouldn't pay for another.

I asked how much it cost out of pocket. It was $8.50.

103 posted on 02/10/2008 11:02:30 AM PST by Dianna
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To: Dianna

advair for maintenance and albuterol for breathing difficulty.

When I filled them both together a month ago, the tab was $180.


104 posted on 02/10/2008 11:09:02 AM PST by Scotswife
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To: Tax-chick
You don't have to be 21 to work in a bar. You have to be 18 to serve a drink, but even a 16 year old can work there bussing tables or washing dishes.

In the US, 18 year olds are legally adults in all respects with the exception of drinking.

105 posted on 02/10/2008 11:18:33 AM PST by Ditto (Global Warming: The 21st Century's Snake Oil)
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To: callisto

It seems too easy for the government to find paid shills to say whatever it wants. Where has scientific integrity gone, the same place as journalistic integrity? Not that there were never paid shills before, but it seems so rampant now.


106 posted on 02/10/2008 11:19:30 AM PST by ResponseAbility
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To: Scotswife
advair for maintenance and albuterol for breathing difficulty.

Luckily for us, he never lost the advair because he took it every morning during his trigger times. The albuterol would get misplaced because he didn't use it very often.

The maintenance meds made a huge difference in treating his asthma! It's a shame this girl couldn't/didn't get compliant with her meds.

107 posted on 02/10/2008 11:20:12 AM PST by Dianna
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To: ottbmare
Some compassion, please, for a poor young girl who made a mistake! This forum is being taken over by the heartless.

I'm not heartless, I think I'm suffering from compassion fatigue. Seriously, the media had pushed this button far too often. It's worn out.

108 posted on 02/10/2008 11:23:01 AM PST by Dianna
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To: ResponseAbility

IMHO that’s what happens when you let the liberal educators become part of the establishment. Heaven help our children!!


109 posted on 02/10/2008 11:23:08 AM PST by callisto (CONGRESS.SYS corrupted...Re-boot Washington DC (Y/N)?)
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To: callisto

I so agree. The bible says if you raise your children in the ways of the Lord they will not depart from it. That doesn’t mean that you just give them book learnin’. You live the life so they see it in action as well. All that has been lost through public education which is determined to destroy that relationship.


110 posted on 02/10/2008 11:57:23 AM PST by ResponseAbility
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To: Condor51

Yes it does.


111 posted on 02/10/2008 11:59:58 AM PST by KC_Conspirator
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To: Tax-chick
i work at a bar. the cocktail waitresses are 19 and hot! why do you think they get hired? they make more money.

thankfully, smoking is not allowed. i wouldn't work there if it was. nothing worse than going home reeking of smoke.

112 posted on 02/10/2008 12:01:18 PM PST by thefactor (that innocence shall not suffer nor the guilty go free...)
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To: justkillingtime
Too bad she didn't consider becoming a fire fighter.

ML/NJ

113 posted on 02/10/2008 1:35:50 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: thefactor
""""thankfully, smoking is not allowed. i wouldn't work there if it was. """" Exactly, you could do something else that befits a person of your ability....perhaps pole dancing....

"What most people really object to when they object to a free market is that it is so hard for them to shape it to their own will. The market gives people what the people want instead of what other people think they ought to want. At the bottom of many criticisms of the market economy is really lack of belief in freedom itself. The essence of political freedom is the absence of coercion of one man by his fellow men. The fundamental danger to political freedom is the concentration of power. The existence of a large measure of power in the hands of a relatively few individuals enables them to use it to coerce their fellow men. Preservation of freedom requires either the elimination of power where that is possible, or its dispersal where it cannot be eliminated. It essentially requires a system of checks and balances, like that explicitly incorporated in our Constitution..."

-- Milton Friedman, The New Liberal's Creed: Individual Freedom, Preserving Dissent Are Ultimate Goals," May 18, 1961

114 posted on 02/10/2008 2:09:03 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: justkillingtime

This is nonsense.


115 posted on 02/10/2008 2:09:44 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: ottbmare
Heartless? I'm worse than heartless. this grant junkie wanted to pretend that he found the second known case of someone dying from SHS.

Besides Richard Moorehead, name one other person who has been killed by Second Hand Smoke. He is the only documented case to date.

Man’s Impending Death To Be Caused By Second Hand Smoke

Atlanta, Ga. July 13, 2007– In a joint press conference on Friday, the World Health Organization and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced that the premature death of a Montana man will be caused by exposure to Second Hand Smoke.

“After extensive conversation with the SAMMEC computers and after long and grueling hours of torturing the data until it told us what we want to hear, we are finally prepared to definitively state that Richard Mooreheads’ death will be a direct result of his exposure to Second Hand Smoke.” Said WHO Director-General Dr. Margaret Chan “We can find no other logical reason for Mr. Moorehead's soon to be tragic demise other than his exposure to SHS.”

The soon to be deceased Mr. Moorehead, 54, an unemployed HIV positive, type 2 diabetic, MS, ALS and kidney dialysis patient who is addicted to crystal meth and heroin, was shocked and visibly angry when told of his diagnosis and cause of death. Reached at his home in an exclusive gated trailer park community in Missoula, MT, Mr. Moorehead blamed his impending death on the careless brutes with cigarettes down at Jim’s Roadhouse Bar on Highway 263. “I’ve never smoked tobacco in my life. But that darn Jim’s Bar was always filled with that there smoke.”

Second Hand Smoke, also known as environmental tobacco smoke (ETS) is a mixture of the smoke given off by the burning end of a cigarette, pipe or cigar and the smoke exhaled from the lungs of a smoker. It causes an estimated 450,000 deaths per day, according to health authorities, Al Gore and Dionne Warwick’s Psychic Friends Network. It’s also been known to cause AIDS, herpes, hemorrhoids, athlete’s foot and jock itch.

116 posted on 02/10/2008 2:15:21 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

good one, scumbag. turns out i’m a cop in grad school making some extra coin on the side. go back to licking your cheetos-stained fingers, tubs.


117 posted on 02/10/2008 2:18:50 PM PST by thefactor (that innocence shall not suffer nor the guilty go free...)
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To: metesky; Gabz

I agree that there is a lot more to this story.The very sudden onset makes no sense.

The autopsy says she died of asthma but there is no way they can prove what brought on the attack. It could have been the cleaning solvent used in the bar,maybe someone had a scent that caused a reaction,stress can be a problem.

My attacks,all those years ago,just sort of came out of nowhere. All the allergy tests and all the medications didn’t help solve the problem. They came when they came,and the disease just went away in my early twenties. Poof,gone !

They will never blame anything but the smoking for this girl’s death. Never.

Off topic-—— I was doing a crossword the other day. The clue was “Socially unacceptable”. I filled in “pariah” but the correct answer was “smoker”. Hmmmmm-—I’m a rebel in my dotage,and I love it.


118 posted on 02/10/2008 2:37:47 PM PST by Mears
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To: Eric Blair 2084

You are missing the point of my post entirely. I do not support the anti-smoking Nazis who seek to regulate every sort of private taste. I do not support the people who try to make smoke and smokers out to be the chief evil of all time.

I am, however, sympathetic to a young girl who died of asthma. No matter what tragedy occurs, there are many people on this forum who have no compassion for the deceased.

It may be difficult for you to believe, but for people who are allergic or sensitive to it, tobacco smoke can indeed trigger a severe asthma attack. So can other inhalants (oil fumes, diesel, perfumes, animal dander, pollen, etc.) There’s nothing wrong with pointing out that smoke too can trigger attacks.


119 posted on 02/10/2008 2:38:44 PM PST by ottbmare
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To: thefactor
Thanks Officer Doodyhead. I'm not a fat donut eater, you have me confused with somebody else. I wish you luck. After grad school you can move on to working security in a mall for $10/hour. Maybe you can mase some teenagers who light up a cigarette by Abercrombie and Fitch. That should satisfy your craving for power.

Photobucket

120 posted on 02/10/2008 2:44:58 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: ottbmare

My daughter is allergic to peanuts. I get extremely angry with the Darwin comments. Nobody would say that to my face.

But the point is, Gubmint can not protect her from everything. She has to learn to carry her Benadryl strips and EpiPen and take care of herself. We’ll teach her.

She will be self reliant. NOT dependent on Gubmint do gooders.


121 posted on 02/10/2008 2:48:22 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: Eric Blair 2084

Ping to Post 118——I meant to add you,but forgot.

Sob !!!!


122 posted on 02/10/2008 2:50:51 PM PST by Mears
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To: Eric Blair 2084
oh, i see! anyone who says they don't like cigarette smoke is guilty of sedition. i said i hate smelling like it so i am guilty and part of the conspiracy.

meanwhile, what i said was if smoking was allowed, i would CHOOSE not to go there. as opposed to the people who you should really hate who say that smoking should be banned. i never said that, and i do not believe it should be banned.

you are exactly what is wrong with FR. besides blatant stupidity, you have perverted your most salient issue into a crusade who's mission has been lost due to your misguided fervor against ANY seemingly opposed viewpoint.

and i'd love to know what you do for a living. probably involves long periods of sitting.

123 posted on 02/10/2008 3:01:08 PM PST by thefactor (that innocence shall not suffer nor the guilty go free...)
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To: Freedom Dignity n Honor

Don’t know what this young lady’s story is exactly, but preventative meds don’t work for everyone. That’s why I’ve quit taking mine, for instance.

But I wouldn’t deliberately venture out without a rescue inhaler, that’s for sure. However, have you ever tried to take a puff from an inhaler when you can’t get a single molecule of air into your lungs? It’s the ultimate Catch 22, let me tell ‘ya. It’s conceivable to me that she felt her rescue inhaler was pretty damned useless as well, and therefore rarely carried it.

That said, I would never ban smoking in bars. It’s just a disability that I and others have to live with, and we should be cognizant of it at all times. In other words, don’t go bar hopping with the fish if you don’t have gills.


124 posted on 02/10/2008 3:06:11 PM PST by LibWhacker ("I don't like prison. They have the wrong types of bars in there." Charles Bukowski)
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To: LibWhacker
You're lucky to be alive if you felt like that.

The Heimlich manuever is the answer to that problem. It was discovered a few years ago that it would help people having asthma attacks who had gotten so far that their lungs were so full of bad air and they couldn't get breathe in any good air.

I've had the kind of reaction where after I've taken my inhaler, my throat muscles start spasming and I can't breathe air in.

I don't take Serevent because it makes me wheeze and cough for hours and hours afterward. It's similar to Advair.

125 posted on 02/10/2008 4:01:59 PM PST by Freedom Dignity n Honor (There are permanent moral truths.)
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To: thefactor
Smoke is annoying. You're not exactly coming down off the mountain with the tablets there Officer Moses.

You will certainly excuse smoker's anger. Being treated like a persecuted minority by a powerful Government sponsored social engineering PR campaign designed to demonize them will do that to a person. And you're next.

Photobucket

What do I do for a living? I'm a pimp and a drug dealer.

Eric's Rates

You're training to put me out of business as a law enforcement officer. Can't have people selling sex or drugs....Second Hand Semen and Second Hand Weed are killers.

Photobucket

Book em Dano. It's all fun and games till the heavy hand of the state indicts you for _________ (fill in the blank) which they will call "official misconduct".

126 posted on 02/10/2008 4:12:52 PM PST by Eric Blair 2084 (Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms shouldn't be a federal agency...it should be a convenience store.)
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To: justkillingtime
If the death certificate reads "second hand smoke" as cause of death, that will be a first.

We should all keep in mind that physicians used to prescribe smoking as a way to defeat an asthma attack (in my experience, it worked).

127 posted on 02/10/2008 6:06:38 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: thefactor; Eric Blair 2084
and i'd love to know what you do for a living. probably involves long periods of sitting.

Commercial banker and commercial mortgaage banker here. $4.7 billion in personal and involved (compensated) transactions in 2007.

I agree with Eric.

128 posted on 02/10/2008 6:13:39 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: thefactor
good one, scumbag. turns out i’m a cop

Tell us where you are so we can not go there.

129 posted on 02/10/2008 6:25:55 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: elkfersupper; thefactor; Eric Blair 2084
good one, scumbag. turns out i’m a cop in grad school making some extra coin on the side

How the poster was accepted into grad school without capitalizing any text is beyond me. He or she also has an exceptionally large quantity of free time to post if employed in a bar, working as a cop, AND in grad school. LOL

By the way, Eric, I was the first person on the thread to make a comment about the Darwin Awards. My apologies, if you felt any insult. It was not intended towards anyone with a peanut allergy or asthma (asthmatic myself), but in reference to those kids who grow up without taking any responsibility towards protecting themselves while having full knowledge of a potential life-threatening medical condition, which appears to be the case referenced in this article.
130 posted on 02/10/2008 7:16:35 PM PST by callisto (CONGRESS.SYS corrupted...Re-boot Washington DC (Y/N)?)
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To: elkfersupper
jeez, if i had a nickel for every time you have written that exact same post to me, i'd sure have a ton of nickels.

if this eric guy is in your circle,

a) he's nuts, and

b) i should not have wasted my time.

you people are so twisted. and if you had read my original post you would have seen that i had neither agreed or disagreed with anything of consequence. just stated my personal situation and concern and was summarily insulted.

131 posted on 02/10/2008 7:21:36 PM PST by thefactor (that innocence shall not suffer nor the guilty go free...)
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To: thefactor
jeez, if i had a nickel for every time you have written that exact same post to me, i'd sure have a ton of nickels.

Expect it to continue until you either get it or back off.

132 posted on 02/10/2008 7:49:26 PM PST by elkfersupper
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To: ResponseAbility

exactly!! I posted this at work this AM...just now reading replies..he is a paid shill of the highest order...glad my fellow Freepers seen this for what it is.


133 posted on 02/10/2008 7:50:05 PM PST by justkillingtime
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To: thefactor; Eric Blair 2084
you people are so twisted. and if you had read my original post you would have seen that i had neither agreed or disagreed with anything of consequence. just stated my personal situation and concern and was summarily insulted.

The common M.O. for smoke nazis on these threads is to make a few initial comments against smokers generally, without really addressing the political side of the issue. They'll dance around the issue, never stating outright that they support government bans. They know that if they do give their position, they will be outed as the nanny-staters that they really are. After chasing these clowns around through 100 or so posts, they will ultimately show themselves as the liberals they really are.

That's why, from time to time, people will snap at seemingly innocent posts that are only mildly critical of smoking. I'm not trying to justify any uncivil language, just trying to give the perspective from our side. I've disagreed with Eric before, but I've found that if you are reasonable and respectful in your responses, he'll return the favor as well.

I'm sure that if you clearly articulate your position on smoking bans, you'll have the respect of everyone here...as long as you answer correctly :)

134 posted on 02/10/2008 8:10:32 PM PST by timm22 (Think critically)
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To: timm22
look at posts #112 and then #114.

you tell me if i was critical. i stated the fact that smoke makes everything smell. and then i stated my personal opinion that if smoking was allowed in my bar i would not work there.

never a word about smokers. on the contrary, i said that i would stay away thereby you would infer that i hold nothing against smokers!

135 posted on 02/10/2008 9:25:58 PM PST by thefactor (that innocence shall not suffer nor the guilty go free...)
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To: metesky

LOL Good One, Metesky.


136 posted on 02/11/2008 1:47:15 AM PST by The Ghost of Rudy McRomney ("I'm a proven leader. That's what the Des Moines Register said."-Mrs.Bill Clinton)
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To: Sender

That makes two of us. I’ve always loved the smell, too. Also the smell of the shoe departments in stores. Being a male, always wondered if there wasn’t something to that phrehormone theory-men always seem to gravitate to tire/automotive centers while the wives are shopping elsewhere.


137 posted on 02/11/2008 1:51:23 AM PST by The Ghost of Rudy McRomney ("I'm a proven leader. That's what the Des Moines Register said."-Mrs.Bill Clinton)
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To: justkillingtime

Bull sperm.. I don’t believe it..


138 posted on 02/11/2008 2:01:52 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: justkillingtime

“Rosenman said the woman had asthma since age 2. Her asthma was poorly controlled. She had made four visits to her doctor in the year before her death for flare-ups, and had been treated in a hospital emergency department two to three times that year.

Although she had prescriptions for an assortment of drugs to prevent and treat asthma attacks, she was reported to only use them when she was having breathing difficulty.

On the evening of her death, she had no inhaler with her.”

Sounds like we should pass laws forcing the use of perscribed medication to control known medical problems. I feel very sad for this teenagers parents, however she should have been smart enough to monitor her own health and mitigate the risks.


139 posted on 02/11/2008 8:36:41 AM PST by CSM ("Dogs and beer. Proof that God loves us.- Al Gator (8/24/2007))
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To: Scotswife

“Insurance makes you wait before they’ll fill another.”

As well they should. However, I would hope that you are still free to get a new perscription from your doctor and pay your money for a refill. I don’t know how much an inhaler costs, but I would think that the loss of one should not be covered by medical.

Hey, try adding it to your homeowners ins. then getting the cash back on a claim.....


140 posted on 02/11/2008 8:59:26 AM PST by CSM ("Dogs and beer. Proof that God loves us.- Al Gator (8/24/2007))
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To: thefactor

“thankfully, smoking is not allowed. i wouldn’t work there if it was. nothing worse than going home reeking of smoke.”

Are you celebrating a mandated government ban, or a voluntary ban by the private property owners? After looking at your tag, I know you are a recipient of the government bans, but from your post it is unclear if you support the government ban or if you are just happy that it is in existence.

In other words, are you blissfully baaaahhhhhiiiinnnnggg with the rest of the sheep, or if you are deliberately an enemy of private property?


141 posted on 02/11/2008 9:13:27 AM PST by CSM ("Dogs and beer. Proof that God loves us.- Al Gator (8/24/2007))
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To: justkillingtime

They should prosecute whoever it was who held a gun to the poor girl’s head and forced her to take that job.

And then they should impeach Bush and Cheney for good measure!


142 posted on 02/11/2008 9:15:20 AM PST by Redcloak ("A plague o' both your houses!")
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To: callisto

>Anyone with a comparable history of asthma would not
a) conciously place themselves in an environment that may potentially trigger an asthma attack,
b) leave home without an albuterol inhaler in case of any emergency attack,
c) NOT use preventative medications, especially since they are so prevalent nowasdays

And, yes, I feel qualified to make these statements as I have a history of asthma/asthmatic bronchitis. I haven’t had an attack for more than one year, but everyday I carry on emergency inhaler with me.<

She was 19, the age where people feel invincible. Heck, I got nailed with an attack out in the high, very cold wind yesterday, when I was walking very fast, trying to get to a political rally. If I hadn’t had access to meds, I could have been in a world of hurt.

This is a tragic situation where a kid took a risk, and lost.


143 posted on 02/11/2008 9:19:42 AM PST by Darnright
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To: CSM
neither. my point is that since there is a ban, i am able to work in bars.

if there was no ban, i would simply find somewhere else to make extra $.

when i used to go to bars and come home reeking of smoke due to other people i didn't like it but i knew it was my own personal choice to go to bars. i could just as easily stay away if i had wanted to.

but the fact is that the ban is in place and it makes my life easier. the smokers go outside and then come back inside and have stopped complaining. if people around here want to give me the old, "this is the first step to gov't control, blah blah, you're all just sheep, blah..." then fine. go ahead. but i am making easy money and i'm happier. oh, and i quit smoking.

you guys should be more worried about the price of smokes. outrageous!

144 posted on 02/11/2008 9:25:00 AM PST by thefactor (that innocence shall not suffer nor the guilty go free...)
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To: Mr Ramsbotham
"It irks me when people who are strong advocates for a position deny reality in order to support their position."

You must be irked a LOT these days.

145 posted on 02/11/2008 9:25:05 AM PST by Delta 21 ( MKC USCG - ret)
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To: thefactor
you tell me if i was critical. i stated the fact that smoke makes everything smell. and then i stated my personal opinion that if smoking was allowed in my bar i would not work there.

Looking at it objectively, you didn't really say anything offensive. A sensitive reader might pick up on an implied message of "smokers are smelly and undesirable". I'm not all that sensitive (I don't smoke) so it didn't bother me personally.

But my point wasn't to say that you were or were not out of line. I was just trying to explain that your post fit the classic profile of a weasely nanny-stater. It appears that this was just a coincidence, and I think it would help everybody if you would just state your position on government smoking bans.

It's nothing personal, just a reaction to a profile. Kind of like if airport security gives extra attention to the young Middle Eastern males. It may not be fair to the innocent, patriotic Muslims, but you have to expect that it will happen.

146 posted on 02/11/2008 9:29:08 AM PST by timm22 (Think critically)
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To: justkillingtime

Anecdotal Evidence — the sine qua non of the liberal fascist!


147 posted on 02/11/2008 9:42:35 AM PST by Dionysius (Jingoism is no vice.)
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To: thefactor

“but the fact is that the ban is in place and it makes my life easier.”

It is sheep like you that have handed the tools to the government to regulate the menu of certain restaurants and their ability to serve some undesirables. Your attitude of complacence is more dangerous than Hillary’s socialist activism, because it is also more common.

Won’t it make everyone’s lives easier when we get “free” healthcare? Never mind that the scope of government infringement personal liberties is greatly expanded.


148 posted on 02/11/2008 9:44:27 AM PST by CSM ("Dogs and beer. Proof that God loves us.- Al Gator (8/24/2007))
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To: CSM
sorry, smokey. just because this law made your life tougher doesn't make me feel guilty. they never said you cant smoke. just that you cant smoke around other people in an enclosed area.

why am i even bothering? let me just ask you one question: do you think that 2nd-hand smoke has adverse effects to non-smokers who inhale it? just answer yes or no if you would please.

149 posted on 02/11/2008 9:55:57 AM PST by thefactor (that innocence shall not suffer nor the guilty go free...)
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To: Freedom Dignity n Honor

Inhalers and Epi pens don’t always save lives my friend, they are not 100% effective in saving someones life.


150 posted on 02/11/2008 9:59:44 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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