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How is it that we find ourselves in this sorry predicament? (this will probably be controversial)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVodI85NLMQ ^ | 2/11/08 | lily

Posted on 02/11/2008 12:40:30 AM PST by incindiary

I know that many people are extremely frustrated with politics these days and the current state of the Republican party. Many people are sad that their first-choice candidate dropped out, then their second-choice, and they keep having to compromise more and more until we get to the point where we feel pressured to vote for a liberal, open-borders, unconstitutional insider politician who we ordinarily would never dream of voting for. But have you asked yourself: how is it that we find ourselves in this predicament? And is there anything more to it than meets the eye?

I know that anything that remotely resembles a conspiracy theory is not usually accepted on this site (by the owner and many freepers) but we're getting closer to the point of losing our republic, so I hope that in light of that, you will let this thread stay, and at least consider what is being said.

I wanted to share an excerpt from a speech, by G. Edward Griffin. In this portion of the speech, he talks about what is happening in our country today, and why it is that we find ourselves feeling forced to pick a candidate that is not much different than the opponent. And the point is, until people become aware of what is happening, it is just going to continue, and get worse - because we are being willing participants in this game which is destroying not only the GOP, but our country. We are being enablers, and I think that when more people realize that, they will not allow themselves to throw all principle out the window, they will take a stand and fight to restore our values and our beloved republic.

I put together a little intro in this video, and following that is the excerpt of the speech. Here's the link:

Do we have a one-party system masquerading as two?

It's about 5 minutes long total.

Thanks and God bless!!


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: bigtent; bipartisan; bipartisanship; democrat; gop; liberalagenda; liberals; liberalvalues; parties; pc; politicalcorrectness; predicament; republican; tolerance
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1 posted on 02/11/2008 12:40:36 AM PST by incindiary
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; George W. Bush; NapkinUser; DreamsofPolycarp; The_Eaglet; Irontank; ...
Let Freedom Ping! :-]
2 posted on 02/11/2008 12:45:04 AM PST by incindiary
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To: incindiary

bookmark for later


3 posted on 02/11/2008 12:53:50 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Illuminati


4 posted on 02/11/2008 12:55:15 AM PST by sushiman
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To: incindiary

“How is it that we find ourselves in this sorry predicament?”

It’s called Iowa, and it sucks.


5 posted on 02/11/2008 12:55:22 AM PST by Moral Hazard (This election mess is Iowa's fault. From 2012 on make them vote last (or not at all).)
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To: incindiary
Do we have a one-party system masquerading as two?

Personally I believe so. In fact, I've come to call it the "status quo" party.

It's the old "good cop / bad cop" game being played masterfully on the entire nation. All the while we sheep are being sheared regularly.

6 posted on 02/11/2008 12:58:31 AM PST by The Duke (I have met the enemy, and he is named 'Apathy'!)
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To: incindiary

A sufficient explanation is human nature (people judge themselves by their intentions and others by their actions) and the historically unique modern system of propaganda.

Since “conspiracy” can explain anything it can explain nothing.


7 posted on 02/11/2008 12:59:34 AM PST by Iris7 ("Do not live lies!" ...Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn)
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To: The Duke
That's a good name for it, I think I'll start calling it that. :-D Did you watch the video?
8 posted on 02/11/2008 1:01:32 AM PST by incindiary
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To: incindiary

The people are still asleep.
They believe whatever the MSM tells them, in preference to what their own eyes tell them.


9 posted on 02/11/2008 1:07:00 AM PST by devere
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To: Iris7
Human nature is part of it, yes, but the point made in the video is that there is a deliberate manipulation going on, and that the parties are controlled by a group that has it set up so they win either way... (I don't know if you watched it, but I wanted to hear some thoughts on that from you guys)
10 posted on 02/11/2008 1:11:01 AM PST by incindiary
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To: devere
Sadly, I think you're right. I talk to people, like my aunt and uncle, and it's so frustrating because they're the types that rarely use the internet, so the only info they get is from the MSM, and it seems they believe whatever they're told. I do think that more and more people are waking up, but too many are blissfully unaware.
11 posted on 02/11/2008 1:15:39 AM PST by incindiary
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To: incindiary
This post, by joanie-f, is an excellent answer to the question.
12 posted on 02/11/2008 1:17:44 AM PST by TigersEye (I'm a maverick. I'm sticking with conservatism.)
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To: incindiary
The Queen of Hearts is in with his nibs the Jack of Spades..
Off with all the republicans heads.. even the Arizona Joker..
13 posted on 02/11/2008 1:26:05 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: incindiary
NONE DARE CALL IT CONSPIRACY
14 posted on 02/11/2008 1:26:48 AM PST by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: incindiary

15 posted on 02/11/2008 1:30:05 AM PST by DoughtyOne (That's right McStain, you'll get my vote when you peel it from my cold dead fingers.)
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To: TigersEye
That was an excellent post, and I applaud her for that. But I'm not sure if I agree that the GOP will come back to its conservative roots in the future. If they have been hijacked by people who do not believe in true conservatism and the constitution, then that is the problem and we either have to elect someone within the Republican party who IS true to the constitution, limited government, liberty and sovereignty (in my view there's only one who fits that description, Dr. Ron Paul) or there needs to be a new party.

Anyway... I gotta go to bed, but thanks for your replies and I'll see ya!

16 posted on 02/11/2008 1:32:38 AM PST by incindiary
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To: incindiary

Do we have a one-party system masquerading as two?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVodI85NLMQ

You can see the whole speech here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw6zhI

I have both books!


17 posted on 02/11/2008 1:33:56 AM PST by restornu (People do your own home work don't reley on the media!)
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To: incindiary
It isn't really a "conspiracy", but the two parties in government have figured out that part of the pie is better than none at all. So they have colluded to take the power and authority away from the citizenry themselves and vest it in the government, whoever is in charge.

This is why all government eventually leads to tyranny, and why the founders never wanted anyone to have a vote if they didn't pay taxes.

They designed a brilliant system of checks and balances, and over time we let the lawyers erode it away. Now we're subjects again, not citizens. We've traded our one tyrant 300 miles away for 3,000 tyrants, one mile away. And I'm afraid the only way we're going to get rid of the new tyrants, is the same way we got rid of the last one.

18 posted on 02/11/2008 1:34:16 AM PST by tcostell (MOLON LABE)
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To: endthematrix
I want to get that book! Another one I want to get is Griffin's book, "The Creature from Jekyll Island"...

lol@hosepipe and D.O!

19 posted on 02/11/2008 1:37:25 AM PST by incindiary
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To: incindiary

Just can’t get into Ron Paul but those history books are interesting!


20 posted on 02/11/2008 1:37:45 AM PST by restornu (People do your own home work don't reley on the media!)
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To: incindiary

I found it a bit interesting, and I would have stayed to listen had there been more.

However, don’t you think it might have been more honest to have said up front that........ this was a video in support of Ron Paul??


21 posted on 02/11/2008 1:41:08 AM PST by Gator113 (America just traded away the possibility of a dream, for what is certain to be a nightmare.)
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To: incindiary
Another is Shadows of Power: The Council on Foreign Relations and the American Decline
by James Perloff
22 posted on 02/11/2008 1:41:54 AM PST by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: incindiary
...but the point made in the video is that there is a deliberate manipulation going on,...

I'm on dial-up so I'm not going to see the video but I have thought that for twenty years. I think the competition between the two parties is real though. But it's about power not ideology. Leftist ideology holds the power now in both parties. I think there are some true conservatives in the Republican Party and a smattering of Blue Dog Democrats that put country before Party or self gain. You won't see them getting much attention from party elites or the MSM though. I don't think the individual pols are all in on some grand over arching conspiracy. I think those that want power follow the trails that lead them to power. The real power brokers are communists/globalists but they don't hold elected offices.

That's my opinion FWIW.

I also think the US Constitution is a major obstacle for them. They are on the verge of collapsing it but they have to do that by getting the people to vote for it. Amnesty and Global Warming are the keys to bringing about a point of no return. Amnesty will consolidate political power over the U.S. and Global Warming will cede economic sovereignty to a world body such as the UN. At that point they can herd us any direction they want to.

23 posted on 02/11/2008 1:45:49 AM PST by TigersEye (I'm a maverick. I'm sticking with conservatism.)
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To: tcostell; restornu
Thanks for your thoughts. It does seem that government always devolves into tyranny. I don't mean to leave on that down note, but I do have to go this time...

restornu - I agree, those books are interesting! :-] I don't have Tragedy and Hope, but that's another one I'd like to read... just to know the plans of the 'enemy'.

24 posted on 02/11/2008 1:46:36 AM PST by incindiary
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To: incindiary

I am so glad I am over that phase of my life and I just let God direct traffic and try to put level headed people in office!

Do I think our choices as they are now worrisome yes I do but God has promise the opposition will NOT win in the scheme of things!


25 posted on 02/11/2008 1:53:04 AM PST by restornu (People do your own home work don't reley on the media!)
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To: incindiary

We had the chance to rally behind Romney and we blew it. Nothing more to it than that.


26 posted on 02/11/2008 2:04:07 AM PST by Dragonspirit (Mitt basher in 2012: What happened? I thought bashing Romney would move the party rightward? Oh no!)
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To: tcostell
the founders never wanted anyone to have a vote if they didn't pay taxes.

That is not exactly true.

They didn't want anyone voting who did not own property.

I came to understand and support that position.

It is the fatal flaw of universal suffrage that a majority will eventually vote themselves the property of those who own it.

We see the results of universal suffrage before us at this very moment.

The average person is voting for candidates promising to hand out the most money - other peoples' money.

27 posted on 02/11/2008 2:33:10 AM PST by NoControllingLegalAuthority
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To: incindiary
The answer is easy, and something I have long tried to point out. Conservatives never...NEVER groom potential candidates. We had Reagan but no viable >conservative< replacements in the pipelne.

That is because conservatives seem to tend to not worry much about local, state and congressional elections and focus instead on the Presidency.

This fight is going to be long and hard, and until we begin outing RINO's and replaceing them with conservative candidates on all levels, we will face situations like this.

prisoner6

28 posted on 02/11/2008 2:49:25 AM PST by prisoner6 (Right Wing Nuts hold the country together as the loose screws of the Left fall out.)
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To: incindiary

Ron Paul is a nut case . His views on 9/11 prove that beyond a doubt.
I do feel that both parties are pretty much the same now but I doubt a secret society controls them . I think politicians are just greedy bastards who act out of self interest and not whats right for America.


29 posted on 02/11/2008 3:02:41 AM PST by sonic109
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To: prisoner6

I totally agree with you my friend.


30 posted on 02/11/2008 3:03:29 AM PST by sonic109
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To: incindiary
A small vanity post of mine you might enjoy...The Takeover
31 posted on 02/11/2008 3:04:23 AM PST by philman_36
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To: TigersEye
I also think the US Constitution is a major obstacle for them. They are on the verge of collapsing it but they have to do that by getting the people to vote for it. Amnesty and Global Warming are the keys to bringing about a point of no return. Amnesty will consolidate political power over the U.S. and Global Warming will cede economic sovereignty to a world body such as the UN. At that point they can herd us any direction they want to.

Yes.

32 posted on 02/11/2008 3:10:26 AM PST by Jim Noble (Look out kid, they keep it all hid)
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To: tcostell

You can say all that again, and twice!


33 posted on 02/11/2008 3:19:34 AM PST by browniexyz
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To: TigersEye; joanie-f
A most excellent post. ( thanks TigersEye & joanie-f )


It sums up the "Republican" dilemma quite nicely.


The end run would be to support any Conservative running for office locally, and gang tackle McCain into the turf.



34 posted on 02/11/2008 3:27:02 AM PST by G.Mason (And what is intelligence if not the craft of out-thinking our adversaries?)
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To: Moral Hazard
It’s called Iowa, and it sucks

Yup. And, it's probably a violation of the Voting Rights Act.

35 posted on 02/11/2008 3:27:10 AM PST by Prospero (Ad Astra!)
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To: incindiary
I've heard many people ask why the candidates for President are so mediocre, and I've thought the same thing.

In fact, most of the Presidents have been mediocre men. There aren't many of them who could successfully run a major business. I wouldn't hire either Slick Willy or Dubya to fill an important position in a major company. Would you?

Maybe, the answer is that the American Presidency isn't really as important as most people think it is. How many Presidents actually have much effect on the vast federal government bureaucracy while they are in office?

If the Presidency really was an important position, the Presidents that we've had would have done more damage to the USA than they have done.

Maybe, the really important people are private business leaders and career bureaucrats.

Perhaps, the best strategy to minimize the damage the Rats, the GOP and the mediocre men who become President can do is to put a different party in the White House every four years. If FDR had only been President for 4 years, the significant damage that he was able to do to the US could have been minimized.

Of course, this same argument could be applied even more so to the Senate, which is composed mostly of truly mediiocre people.

36 posted on 02/11/2008 3:31:54 AM PST by Rum Tum Tugger
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To: incindiary
We are to blame period.

The electorate contains the power to vote for responsible public servants and hold their feet to the fire concerning: Legislation, execution and judicial appointments.

Instead the electorate gave up the “car keys” and let the State/Federal bureaucracies assume control.

“The people” have become addicted to public money and “feel good” regulations. We have simply dropped the ball.

37 posted on 02/11/2008 3:45:03 AM PST by rollo tomasi (Working hard to pay for deadbeats and corrupt politicians.)
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To: TigersEye
They may have to hurry up on the Global Warming effort. There are signs of imminent global cooling.

There are signs that the earth might be entering a mini-ice age. The last one was between 1650 and 1715 A.D.

  1. This article explains that Sun spot activity is abnormally low for this point in its 11-year cycle. This is the primary cause of major changes in Earth temperature: INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY: The Sun Also Sets.
  2. January 2008 was the coldest month in the last 30 to 100 years throughout the Northern hemisphere, as noted here: Watts Up With That?: Jan08 Northern Hemisphere snow cover: largest anomaly since 1966.
  3. The Southern (Antarctic) ice cap in December was the size it was six months earlier -- even though December is the warm season down there now. Southern Hemisphere Ice Cover Remains Well Above Normal .
  4. Over the Pacific ocean La Nina is going into a classic cold phase, such as it did in 1949-1950, which signaled the start of the reversal of the warming of the earth’s climate in the 1930s, ‘40s and early 50s. Climate Change (pdf).

Record lows north, south, over the Pacific, and on the Sun!

The Global Warming hoax is not about sensibly adapting to man made climate change. It is about slowing the Western economy (which is why Russia, China, India and Brazil get essentially a free pass in the Kyoto accords.)

As one of my favorite bloggers, The Discerning Texan, writes, they have to hurry up and have some success getting laws, regulations and treaties that "address Global Warming", before the big chill comes in anyway and puts the big lie to their efforts.

To quote him:

I suspect that many global warming alarmists are well aware that time is running out for them. If nothing is done and global temperatures decline in coming years--as they inevitably will, the only question is when--the alarmists will have been refuted.

On the other hand, if they succeed in pushing through industry-destroying caps on carbon emissions around the world, and especially here in the U.S., they will take credit for the cooling when it comes, claiming it as vindication of their theories.


38 posted on 02/11/2008 3:57:00 AM PST by ThePythonicCow (The Greens and Reds steal in fear of freedom and capitalism; Fear arising from a lack of Faith.)
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To: incindiary

Too many litmus tests for candidates.


39 posted on 02/11/2008 4:01:17 AM PST by durasell (!)
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To: incindiary

Conspiracy or not ( I deny any conspiracy, personally...) I still lay the blame on my fellow citizens for being so weak minded.
I reached critical mass on this about 2 weeks ago. The crying, the finger pointing, the lying. Listening to side conversations at work and elsewhere. People want universal healthcare... people wan the war to end, illegals are just poor people trying to make it. The list goes on and on.
It sickens me listening to these people, every word they utter is a direct quote from a MSM evening newscast, whether it be Fox or CNN.
I personally don’t think most of them are totally void of intelligence, I think they are too damn lazy to think. Too lazy to look over history. Too lazy to look at statistics (unless some newscast analyzed it for them).
I started to take a look at my own philosophies and wondered if I really WAS wrong.
Then my dad looked me in the eye and said (and this is a direct quote) “Are you stupid?”
That kind of put it all back into perspective for me. I ran the numbers again (metaphorically speaking) and yes, I’m convinced I am right. I’m convinced my fellow Americans aren’t paying attention, not doing their part. They are taking the path of least resistance, the path to entitlements, the path toward the “we are the world” crowd, higher taxes and as a country, global “sissy” status. I wonder if Mcarthy was right after all...
I think, how dare these people who call themselves Americans, try to rewrite the constitution to fit their own personal agendas. The phrase “the common good” echos in my head, bringing on a sickening feeling.
I guarantee few if any of them (my so-called fellow citizens) have ever visited Arlington and viewed it as was originally intended, lived a single moment for the sacrifices it represents. A single visit to that site solidified my views as an American, it made me proud, not ashamed. It made me feel strong, not weak. I realized a level of respect I had never felt before.
Now I look around me and listen to people talking about how America is a nation of bullies, killing people in the east for oil, for Cheny, for contracts... then I get angry.
I know I ramble, but there are so many points to be made, I could write a book.
Needless to say, I have joined in the “suicide voter” pact. I’m fed up with voting for people who put a “R” on their ticket and run. They know nothing about conservatism outside of how to oppose the basic premise itself. Our lawmakers have squandered and destroyed the chance they were given and tainted the name of the Republican party, most likely permanent damage.
I will vote democrat ever time from here on out until my party starts nominating true conservatives. This country is going to have to visit rock bottom before recovery begins, and the faster we get there, the faster that recovery will take place. Give me a good reason to vote republican, and I will. It is no longer a guarantee by default.
So Hillary, congratulations, the republic party and the sheep I live with sold my vote to you. I hope you abuse your authority to it’s highest level, we expect no less.


40 posted on 02/11/2008 4:04:14 AM PST by FunkyZero
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To: incindiary

“The chief problem of American political life...has been how to make the two Congressional parties more national and international. The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can ‘throw the rascals out’ at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy.”

~Carroll Quigley, ‘Tragedy and Hope’
***********************************

Quigley, in my humble opinion, was one of the most harmful minds of the 20th century. He was also Bill Clinton’s college mentor.

So is it any wonder that the Dems are far more radical than they were 40 years ago, and the Republicans are more or less the Democrats of 40 years ago? I’m encouraged to see the level of dissatisfaction this year. Could this be the moment when conservative voters refuse to allow their party to be taken any farther down the slope?


41 posted on 02/11/2008 4:28:19 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: sauropod

home


42 posted on 02/11/2008 4:29:27 AM PST by sauropod (I'd rather be waterboarded than vote for John McCain)
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To: incindiary

That’s your video?

I’ll send you a friend request if that’s you. :)


43 posted on 02/11/2008 4:34:08 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: incindiary

Good video- I was just telling somebody yesterday about his Jekyll Island book, and I was surprised to hear him use the exact same quote I just posted. Great minds... haha


44 posted on 02/11/2008 4:42:02 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: incindiary
As to the original question of this thread ... it's been a long time coming.

First, in the Civil War, the federal government conclusively proved it was top dog, not the states.

Then, just before World War I, with the 16th (income tax) and 17th (popular vote for Senators) amendments, the federal government obtained a broad funding base and removed the last big hold the states had over it. With the Federal Reserve, established at the same time, the major banks gained control of our money.

Then, during the Great Depression, FDR's fireside chats over the new fangled radio brought the federal government into every family's living room, as a trusted friend, and he greatly expanded the rolls of people depending on the government (e.g., Social Security)

Then during the 1950's, television became the primary conduit of political propaganda, and we could afford finally to send almost everyone to public schools for indoctrination. This led to a bumper crop of Spock babies in the 1960's, who now hold our highest offices, and run our major media and universities.

It takes several generations to turn a free people to slavery. We are well along that path now.

Overthrowing the Brits in 1776 was relatively easy; they had some tens of thousands of soldiers with muskets shipped over a long ocean ride. Overthrowing the current United States of America is not, in any ordinary sense of the word, possible.

Just as I must face the fact that I am getting old and will die in a few decades, or less, I must face the fact that this great nation is getting old and that our liberty will die out, over the next century or two.

45 posted on 02/11/2008 5:01:06 AM PST by ThePythonicCow (The Greens and Reds steal in fear of freedom and capitalism; Fear arising from a lack of Faith.)
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To: incindiary

I should have KNOWN. Another diatribe from a tin-foil hat wearing “Ron Paul” fanatic.


46 posted on 02/11/2008 5:11:57 AM PST by TexConfederate1861
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To: tcostell
It isn't really a "conspiracy", but the two parties in government have figured out that part of the pie is better than none at all. So they have colluded to take the power and authority away from the citizenry themselves and vest it in the government, whoever is in charge.

I would call that a "conspiracy". I have felt for awhile that the two parties were taking turns in power, in return for no one upsetting the apple cart. I think it is too late to save the GOP & we conservatives need to get started now on forming a new party for us.

I also know a lot of liberals & I think they would agree with us about their own party too. I think the dems and pubs have slit their own throats this time around. I, for one - refuse to play their game anymore. Anyone that lets them get away with it, is as guilty of treason as they are.

47 posted on 02/11/2008 5:13:41 AM PST by alicewonders (Conservative without a country.)
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To: sonic109
"Ron Paul is a nut case . His views on 9/11 prove that beyond a doubt."

I'm guessing you really don't know Ron Paul's "views" on 9/11. I am a long-time supporter of Ron Paul and I don't what his "views" are.

"I do feel that both parties are pretty much the same now but I doubt a secret society controls them . I think politicians are just greedy bastards who act out of self interest and not whats right for America."

That's an interesting theory you have there, however, your little theory is lacking in one very important area: Namely; why do they continually sell our country down the river?

BTW: the other "theory" contains the answer to that.

48 posted on 02/11/2008 5:53:57 AM PST by Designer
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To: TexConfederate1861
"I should have KNOWN. Another diatribe from a tin-foil hat wearing “Ron Paul” fanatic."

Oh, man, I hope you didn't read anything here. Who knows how that may have corrupted your mind-set.

With any luck, you escaped without actually learning anything.

49 posted on 02/11/2008 5:58:26 AM PST by Designer
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To: alicewonders
"Anyone that lets them get away with it, is as guilty of treason as they are."

Bump for that!

50 posted on 02/11/2008 6:00:32 AM PST by Designer
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