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Where Are the Moderate Muslims?
israelenews ^ | January 25, 2008

Posted on 02/12/2008 3:12:21 AM PST by values

Where Are the Moderate Muslims?

(2003) One of the most important feature of any culture is its religion -- its belief in a supernatural power or powers, its explanation of the origin of man and his purpose on earth, its interpretation of death and a possible afterlife, its set of ethical values and the penalties for their transgressions. Over mankind’s long history, religions and cultures were born, grew and developed and eventually died. Religion is generally the most conservative element of a culture; it may change or even give birth to a new distinct religion but only under cultural stress, upheaval or duress.

In the history of Islam, the assassination of Ali, the cousin and son-in-law of Mohammad, and the subsequent massacre of his son Hussein together with his followers in Karbala (680 CE), resulted in the separation of the Shiites from Sunni Muslims. This split was precipitated by internal politics rather than by a change in theology; the two kinds of Islam are basically very similar. When it comes to violence and terrorism, for instance, the Shiite Hizballah and the Sunni Islamic Jihad or Al-Qaeda have identical religious and political ideologies. Since that fateful event in Karbala, no significant religious changes occurred in Islam, and no major religious variations have grown out of it.

Islamic fundamentalism, which has become politically active in the last hundred years, is not a new religion or a new variation of Islam. It is an expression of classic theocratic Islam in reaction to the secularization of certain Muslim counties, such as Turkey, Kuwait or Iraq. Classic Islam feels threatened by modernization and potential secularization.

However, since Islam is practiced by 1.2 Billion people, it is unlikely to disappear or be displaced by secularism.

Following the defeats of the “mighty” Arab armies by the fledgling IDF in 1948, and then again in 1967 and 1973, after the political defeat and retreat of the atrocious Muslim Indonesians from East Timor in 1999, and after the recent military collapse of fundamentalist Islamic Afghanistan and the Arab militant dictatorship in Iraq, Islam is due for a major shake-up. Unlike Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and most other religions, Islam is a politically driven religion bound on military triumph, conquest and subjugation. Consequently, this chain of recent military and political defeats, in addition to the realization that defeating Israel or the US by indiscriminate terrorist attacks on innocent civilians is futile, must give Muslims worldwide ample material for soul searching. It seems that Islam is due for a major reform.

There has been lots of talk in American media about a difference between “moderate” and fundamentalist Muslims. People have been wondering, however, why the “moderate” Muslims have not denounced the Islamic fundamentalists and their violent deeds. The reason is that there is no theological or cultural distinction between the two.

Built into Islam are the doctrines of the infallibility of Mohammed and the Qur’an, the superiority and supremacy of Muslims over all non-believers (infidels) -- implying religious intolerance, the concept of the Umma – the Islamic universal nation, and the goal of having all of humanity become Muslim or at least subjugated to Islam. “Moderate” or even “secular” Muslims feel uncomfortable to publicly violate any of these doctrines, even if they may privately disobey the dietary or other behavioral rules of Islam.

Secular Muslims are not a well-defined subset of Muslims, like Christian or Jewish atheistic Socialists or Communists. Under appropriate circumstances, secular Muslims readily revert to traditional Islamic ideology, and they are cheerfully accepted by the traditionalist masses. We just witnessed this in Iraq where Saddam Hussein, a secular national socialist dictator, used traditional Islamic premises to bolster his defiance of the West.

We saw the same trend even more dramatically in the Palestinian Authority (PA). Here, the secular PLO leadership invoked fundamentalist Islamic tenets to produce hundreds of suicidal terrorists, available for export to any Islamic country in need, with Arafat threatening to sacrifice a million Muslim martyrs (Shahids = suiciders) to conquer Jerusalem from the Jewish “infidels”. Secular PLO has thus become the hotbed for upbringing a new generation of Islamic fanatics.

The Islamic premise that land conquered by Arabs belongs to the Umma for perpetuity and cannot ever be given back to infidels is the ideological basis for the one-hundred-year-long bloody war with the Jews in the land of Israel. This bloody war is aimed at eradicating the Israeli Jews, although the territory in dispute is less than 0.2% of the total territory of the Umma, the Arab nation. That disputed territory includes land that Jews purchased for inflated prices from Arabs in the Land of Israel. Although purchased legally, this land is still considered -- according to the Islamic ideology -- as land “stolen” from the Umma (in most Arab countries infidels cannot own any real-estate, in Saudi Arabia they cannot even live as permanent residents).

One wonders why moderate Muslims do not disavow in public Islamic terrorism against Americans, terrorism that started long before 9/11. It started in 1973 with the murder of the US Ambassador to the Sudan by the PLO, continued with the massacre of 241 Marines in Beirut in 1982 by the Hesballah, and has continued even since (e.g. the Khobar Tower in 1996, the East African US Embassies in 1998, the USS Cole in 2000). By the same token, no one has ever heard moderate Muslims renounce the brutal Arab campaign against the Jews in Israel, starting with the terrorist massacres in 1921 and 1929 and continuing up to date. Both these terrorist campaigns seem to be tacitly endorsed by the “moderate” Arabs.

Harvard’s Professor Samuel Huntington’s “clash of civilizations” is, therefore, not illusionary. The Islamic clergy is threatened by the secularization of the Muslim masses and is worried that this secular trend will take over the political structure of Muslim countries as it did in Turkey. That threat becomes increasingly more ominous as the Islamic masses are exposed to Western culture through satellite TV and the Internet. Islamic clergy fights back by polarizing these masses and inciting them by religious-nationalistic slogans. The result of this militancy is, however, humiliating military defeat and economic misery. One can see this clearly played out in the PA territories. What is needed for the benefit of all parties concerned is a reformation of Islam. Such reform, which is a natural development in all religions following military calamity, can be facilitated by new technology.

Let us pause for a moment and consider the occurrence of reforms in other religions. The stress of the fall and destruction of Samaria (722 BCE) and the momentous siege of Jerusalem by the Assyrians some 20 years later, were evidently a terrible national calamity. This led to the first significant religious reform in Judaism, culminating in the establishment of the Deuteronomic Law by King Josiah. The destruction of Solomon’s Temple (586 BCE) was followed by another set of dramatic changes in Jewish religion, formulated and instituted by Ezra the Scribe in the early days of the Second Temple.

The loss of Judean political independency to Rome raised apocalyptic messianic beliefs that culminated in the rise of Christianity following the destruction of the Second Temple. The same cataclysmic event made Rabbinic Judaism dominant, constituting the third major reformation of Judaism. In spite of scores of recent Jewish books on the theological ramifications of the Nazi Holocaust, it may be too early to tell whether this cataclysm will eventually result in another major reform in Judaism.

In Christianity, the socio-economic changes in Europe in the 16th Century following the discovery of the “New World” and the rise of the bourgeoisie, diminished the grip of the Roman Church on the Christian population. This resulted in Martin Luther’s Reformation that was facilitated by the new technology of the printing press. Unlike Islam, both Catholicism and Protestantism have undergone many theological evolutionary changes. But although the Pope expresses occasionally political views and the Evangelic Protestants wield some power in US internal politics, Christianity has given up territorial ambitions a long time ago.

Unlike Islam, which politically dominates a third of humanity and has aspirations to conquer the rest, Judaism has just a minimal territorial desire – to regain sovereignty over its ancient national homeland, a sliver of territory at the edge of the lands conquered by the Arabs in the seventh Century and held by them for a relatively short period. This modest desire of the oldest nation in Western civilization is, however, rebuffed by the Arabs, leaving the Jews in an existential struggle with the intrinsically intolerant political Islam. The Arabs, who have been achieving nothing by their indiscriminate terrorism, seem to bound to continue that futile “holy war.”

To end the futile Jihadistic Muslim terrorism that will only result in additional loss of innocent lives, and to avoid additional devastating military defeats by the “infidels,” Islam must undergo reformation. As it stands, Islam does not have the theological- religious tools to live in full harmony with non-Muslims.

This reformation must come from within the Islamic religious community. Islam must give up its global political ambitions and its claim to supremacy over all other religions. This means an end to Islamic expansionism and intolerance, and possibly also an end to Islamic ancient tradition of despotism. One can only hope that a wise and conscientious Islamic theologian, one who realizes the dangers in perpetuating the current Islamic beliefs, will come up with a formula that will allow giving up some of the basic tenets of the Qur’an.

Other religions have done it. Islam can do the same. This would mean the establishment of a new reformed Islamic religious movement that will no doubt face bitter and violent opposition. In view of historical inevitability, it will prevail. Like the printing press that helped Luther, modern global communication technology should make it possible to reach the hundreds of millions of Muslims who may be ready for such a needed change -- a change that will make the Muslims welcomed as equal partners in the modern world.


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: formermuslims; islam; jihad; moderatemuslims

1 posted on 02/12/2008 3:12:24 AM PST by values
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To: values

I thought I saw one in Wal-Mart the other day, but it turned out to be Elvis.


2 posted on 02/12/2008 3:16:15 AM PST by gotribe (I've been disenfranchised by the GOP.)
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To: values
They're NOT... at CNN


3 posted on 02/12/2008 3:17:08 AM PST by johnny7 ("But that one on the far left... he had crazy eyes")
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To: values
Where Are the Moderate Muslims?

they are stared $h!tless for themselves and their families lives, if they breathe one anti-jihad word......

4 posted on 02/12/2008 3:29:32 AM PST by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: Vaquero

that is scared not stared.....sorry.


5 posted on 02/12/2008 3:35:56 AM PST by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: values

In general, the moderate Muslims aren’t really Muslims at all.


6 posted on 02/12/2008 3:49:43 AM PST by Brilliant
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To: gotribe
I cannot suggest a solution for Israel tho I wish them well. They have, in spite of some of their spineless leaders, resisted magnificently and repeatedly.

I think resistance on the basic level is one positive approach. As an American citizen I refuse to be intimidated by muslims. I don't speak code in their presence, I don't mince words. I have pointed out, in muslim's presence, that the reason we obviously non-muslims have to go thru the humiliating TSA process at the airport is because of muslims--not terrorists, not a handful of saudis, muslims--no distinction. I have spoken out when others refer to the peaceful muslims who live in our country--they are not. They harbor terrorists among them and do nothing to comply with the laws of society let alone the law of the land. My daughter, while working in food services at Eastern Michigan University, has refused to wait on muslim males because they think they can point at what they wish to purchase without speaking to her to ask for it, thus diminishing a Christian woman. "Sorry, I don't speak point." Of course, I don't attend any movie which idealizes or glamorizes the islimic cause, or vote for any candidate that is not tough on islime.

These are small steps that can be magnified if we all are conscientious and step up daily.

7 posted on 02/12/2008 4:01:42 AM PST by RushLake (Democrats/MSM have never met a terrorist they didn't like.)
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To: gotribe

He is on the Campaign trail ,His Name is Obama


8 posted on 02/12/2008 4:05:13 AM PST by ballplayer
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To: values

I have discovered The Great Muslim Moderate here:

http://ronbosoldier.blogspot.com/2006/12/great-moderate-muslim-discovered.html

....after sailing the globe!


9 posted on 02/12/2008 4:13:54 AM PST by thomasjefferson1215
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To: values
"Imagine for just a moment that there was a real solution to defeating Islamic extremism once and for all, one that was not only within our grasp, but one that has been proven to work. What you will read is the true account of coming face to face with an Al Qaeda member prior to 9/11 and how his efforts to recruit were thwarted. Imagine for a moment that the so-called extremists could be revealed for who they truly are. Not the messengers of objective truth that they claim to be, but rather the pharisaical hypocrites that they truly are." "In a recent editorial in the New York Times entitled "Islam's Silent Moderates" , Ayaan Hirsi Ali asks the question "Where are the moderates?" as she laments on the silence from the so-called contingent of moderate Muslims around the globe in response to the recent case of the "girl from Qatif". As much as I admire Ayaan Hirsi Ali for her outspoken courage, I'm disappointed that she consistently misses the mark on defining a solution for effectively dealing with Islamic extremism. I'm also disappointed that someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali fails to see that the issues we face and not so much with "moderation" and "extremism" but rather with what I believe to be the real issue of moderninity."

"In dealing with Islamic extremism, the first thing we need to do is skip through the endless mind-numbing musings on Islamic jurisprudence peddled by a plethora of self-proclaimed Muslim pundits and scholars around the globe, the harsh reality is the there is no such thing as a moderate Muslim. What we do have though is the modern Muslim. The modern muslim versus the anachronism."

"I had first met Hassan many years ago while I was having my lunch at a small restaurant in Singapore on Jalan Pisang (street) called Hajah Maimunah. The restaurant is a bit off the beaten track from Orchard road and so, few tourists will ever visit it, but it serves perhaps the best Indonesian and Malay food in all of Singapore and at lunchtime during the week the restaurant can be quite packed. Hassan, with his tray in hand saw me sitting alone at a table as asked if he could join me. I looked up at this poor sob decked out in his full Islamist regalia complete with the androgynous black eyeliner and turban and nodded my head for him to sit down."

"Typical of many of these living anachronisms who often meander the streets and loiter around the mosques in modern-day Singapore, Hassan epitomized many of these psychically enslaved individuals who are hopelessly and perpetually trapped in some sort of cosmic Manichaean struggle between good and evil, where they find even the simple use of cutlery confounding. Showing his complete and utter disdain for modernity, Hassan sat down and proceeded to stick the fingers of his right hand into his food. Amused and yet disgusted at the same time I watched this individual make a spectacle of himself as well as a mess at the table with his curry-covered hand. Sitting there in my shirt and tie watching Hassan, I almost felt pity and couldn't help but think, not only how comical he looked but how he simply did not fit in with modern society. Attempting to hide my disgust at his table manners and with perhaps a bit of feigned congeniality I reached over and passed Hassan a napkin and asked him politely in Indonesian if he would mind cleaning the mess that he made on the table."

"At this point you're probably thinking that this is quite condescending of me and that perhaps this individual's disdain for cutlery is nothing but a "cultural thing", and in some respects you are correct, but Hassan's disdain for not only cutlery but modernity as well, is equally if not more, founded in, and influenced by his own ethnic and religious chauvinism and the "us versus them" dichotomy that permeates each and every aspect of his life."

"As I look around the restaurant I noticed many other Indonesians and Malays who found no problems adapting to the implements of a modern-day society. Individuals who did not feel threatened by cultural progression, individuals who did not feel compelled to repudiate all aspects of what they perceived to be in any possible way linked to Western civilization, individuals who, above all, were not hopelessly enslaved by the same brutal dualistic worldview that Hassan was. By this time Hassan had finished his meal and then looked over at me and said. "I see you can speak Indonesian".

to be continued...

FROM

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

10 posted on 02/12/2008 4:20:17 AM PST by expatguy ("An American Expat in Southeast Asia" - New & Improved - Now with Search)
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To: values
I agree, however, we cannot expect Islam to reform in order to more readily accept Western "secularization." The Left in the West have redefined the meaning of culture. Especially in America, it has been the cultural Left that has given us the enlightenment of "if it feels good, do it." It is the Left that drives the destruction of morality, the vital link of religious principles and our Constitution and Laws. It is the Left that hands out condoms, de-funds abstinence education programs and promotes the sexualization of our culture. .It is the Left that is growing Government and asserting that Faith in God is to be purged from all the Government touches. It is the Left.

We must reform America. America is a nation whose founding principles are rooted in the story of Jesus. It is a story the proclaims that Freedom is a Gift from God meant for ALL. All are created equal because All are loved by God, as He loved His own Son. This genetic code of Freedom has been altered by the Left incrementally in the same way a frog in a saucepan is slowly brought to a boil.

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.

Radical Islam is Nebuchanezzar, Islam is the Midianites who were raised up by God against his people. "Why hast thou done this to thine people"? cried Gideon. The answer was that God's people had done evil in his sight. America today is like that. We must restore our founding spirit and principles. Our mission is to be "a shining city upon the hill". . .to proclaim to the world the true root and definition of Freedom. . .except now, the Left has tricked us into thinking that such a thing would violate "the separation of Church and State." Well think again. .. because the quote above is from none other then the "separator" himself. . .Thomas Jefferson.

We have been lulled to sleep and it is time for ALL who have a faith in God to find a common interest in the restoration of our true National Identity. Until we do that, don't waste your time preaching to Islam about its need to reform. It truly needs to reform. . .but it will never reform so as to embrace all that is rotten about the West.

11 posted on 02/12/2008 4:34:15 AM PST by McBuff
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To: RushLake

There are no `peaceful’ muslims or `moderate’ muslims.

There are only Silent Muslims in our midst, like sleeper cells, awaiting a change in the correlation of forces between the Dar al-Harb and the Dar al-Islam.

(Does anybody here recall that 10%-20%-30%-40% graph of muslim percentage of population, and just what happens when they achieve critical mass?)

Here in South Carolina the muslims are at the well below 10% level. They are quiet, nondemanding, and probably scared S#@!less of all us good ol’ boys packing heat, beer and Bibles on our way to NASCAR.

There are no footbaths in OUR airports!

;^)


12 posted on 02/12/2008 4:37:50 AM PST by elcid1970
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To: gotribe
Moderate Muslims?

Oxymoron?
13 posted on 02/12/2008 5:13:05 AM PST by Proverbs 3-5
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To: values
Where are the moderate muslims?


14 posted on 02/12/2008 6:06:37 AM PST by Sgt_Schultze
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To: elcid1970
"There are only Silent Muslims in our midst, like sleeper cells, awaiting a change in the correlation of forces between the Dar al-Harb and the Dar al-Islam."

Not so silent today if FNC is accurate. Fox is reporting that there is a threat of terrorist females disguising their bombs as if the females are pregnant here in the US today. The second largest muslime population in the US resides in the Detroit area. They know this is a liberal controlled state, Karl Levin is one of their best friends in the Dhimmi community, they are far from quiet.

I pack heat too and believe that most Americans should be prepared in this manner.

15 posted on 02/12/2008 6:18:39 AM PST by RushLake (Democrats/MSM have never met a terrorist they didn't like.)
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To: values

There are no moderate muslims. There are only jihadists in waiting. Islam is a cult; a system of political, social, and economic beliefs controlled by a theocratic structure unavailable to the general masses of the adherents. Islam rules one third of the world’s population by means of lies, threats, and acts of violence.
The seventh century has not passed for these socially, scientifically, and economically retarded masses. They are brainwashed into believeing that all their woes are a result of some perceived slight by non-muslims at some time in the past.
Their playbook, the quran, is explicit. There are only three ways to deal with the infidel: Convert them, Enslave them, or Kill them. There are no entreaties in the quran to negotiate with the kafir, to seek a middle ground. They are taught that their pedophile prophet is the height of perfection in man, and that islam is the height of glory in the world as it represents Allah’s will.
The notion that lands conquered by islam remain the property of islam for all time, regardless of their subsequent status or control, is just an example of the absurdity that is islam.
And, 1400 years of interpretation by inbred clerics does little to broaden the intellecual base of the belief system.

Islam is a cult and needs to be eradicated.

Lock and Load.


16 posted on 02/12/2008 6:21:28 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion)
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To: Proverbs 3-5

Moderate Muslim = One who wants to destroy only Israel.

Radical Muslim = One who wants to destroy the USA and Israel.

Muslim = One who wants to destroy Western Civilization and rule the world.


17 posted on 02/12/2008 6:33:37 AM PST by thomasjefferson1215
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To: PubliusMM

A pity we don’t have a contemporary Senator Cato in the U.S. Senate saying after every speech, ....”And Furthermore Islam Must Be Destroyed.”


18 posted on 02/12/2008 6:37:33 AM PST by thomasjefferson1215
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To: PubliusMM
Islam is a cult and needs to be eradicated.

Yep.

L

19 posted on 02/12/2008 6:46:07 AM PST by Lurker (Pimping my blog: http://lurkerslair-lurker.blogspot.com/)
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To: RushLake

More reasons why I prefer S.C. to Dearbornistan.

A hijab-wearer around here is usually a local African-American woman who converted. And if she is your Food Lion checkout person, you will be greeted with “How ya doin’?” as your pork purchases are cheerfully scanned.

Anyway, if the rest of America were as alert to Islamofascism as everyone on this thread seems to be, we could regard the situation more calmly. Especially the one who posted how he carries out personal antijihad every time he encounters a muslim.

More and more I see posts which include the phrase “Stock up on ammo!” A good sign or a bad one, depending on perspective.


20 posted on 02/12/2008 6:55:27 AM PST by elcid1970
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To: values

I hope we have spies in all the mosques here.


21 posted on 02/12/2008 7:14:40 AM PST by westmichman ( God said: "They cry 'peace! peace!' but there is no peace. Jeremiah 6:14)
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To: Vaquero

Islam demands:

Jihad (war) be waged until the entire world is converted or subjugated, ie, the whole world is under sharia law.

Anyone who speaks out in opposition of this is apostate.

Apostasy is death.

No, there will be no such thing as a “moderate muslim”.


22 posted on 02/12/2008 7:16:18 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: values

In the enchanted forest with the unicorn, another creature of myth.


23 posted on 02/12/2008 7:18:29 AM PST by Califreak (Hangin' with Hunter-under the bus "Dread and Circuses")
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To: PubliusMM

MUST READ for everyone:

http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Incorrect-Guide-Crusades-Guides/dp/0895260131


24 posted on 02/12/2008 7:18:37 AM PST by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: values
Where are the Moderate Muslims?

Last seen spinning around along the shore at the Small World ride in DisneyWorld.

25 posted on 02/12/2008 7:18:50 AM PST by TADSLOS (Juan Hernandez' Battle Cry: "Juan McCain for El Presidente! Si, se puede!")
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To: values

Moderate means they put novocain on their blades. Moderate means they put an “R” rating on the videos that they make of slicing innocent Jews heads off. Moderate means that they kill only one priest or nun when the Pope says something that they don’t like.


26 posted on 02/12/2008 7:21:00 AM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (expel the whole sorry lot of them)
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To: values

A moderate Muslim is defined as one who has run out of ammo.


27 posted on 02/12/2008 7:23:15 AM PST by Lizavetta
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To: RushLake

God Bless your daugther for standing up and doing what is right to protect her God-given dignity. :)


28 posted on 02/12/2008 7:50:10 AM PST by Biggirl (A biggirl with a big heart for God's animal creation, with 4 cats in my life as proof. =^..^=)
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To: Biggirl

Salman Rushdie is a Moderate Muslim, but if anyone finds out where he is, the other million immoderate Muslims will kill him.


29 posted on 02/12/2008 8:05:06 AM PST by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: values
I have been reading these types of articles for years now since 911.

“Where are the moderate Muslims?”
“Why don’t moderate Muslims speak up about the hijacking of their religion?”
“Islam needs to go thru a reformation”

IMHO this is all a waste of breath and ink. The bottom line is Muslims do not see anything wrong with what is going on, they are perfectly happy with their lot and religion/culture and while maybe not publicly supporting the terrorist actions, they at least tacitly support the terrorist activities.

So let’s just get over the idea that Muslims will reform themselves and learn to live at least peacefully with anyone else in the world. The bottom line it is not going to happen, it is not in their nature.

If and when we make this logical leap, it will change the fundamental way we address this global issue/clash of civilizations. And no, this does not mean we kill them all, but much like children who have been given a free reign for years, the antidote to the problem is some tough love. It is going to be hard and it is going to take a long time, but Muslims, please grow up. The longer we wait, the harder it becomes.

schu

30 posted on 02/12/2008 9:34:22 AM PST by schu
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To: Vaquero

you mean “scared”...


31 posted on 02/17/2008 2:15:14 PM PST by values
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To: values

right scared...

see #5


32 posted on 02/18/2008 3:01:58 AM PST by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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