Posted on 02/14/2008 4:46:06 AM PST by oblomov
Article is in PDF format. Quotes:
"The welfare subsidy on single-mother homes was never really ended so much as it was shifted. Reformers essentially replaced welfare with child support, on the reasonable but largely irrelevant principle that fathers rather than taxpayers should be supporting their children (which is irrelevant for reasons we will see)."
"Child support thus transformed welfare from public assistance into law enforcement, creating a federal plainclothes police force with no clear constitutional authority."
"Perhaps the most striking aspect of this mobilization is that the initiative came entirely from government officials. No public outcry ever preceded these measures, nor did any public perception of such a problem even exist until officials began to say that it does. The public never demanded that government take action, nor was any public discussion of this alleged problem ever conducted in the national or local media. No government or academic study ever documented a nonpayment problem."
"Scholars largely agree that unemployment is “the single most important factor relating to nonpayment” (Braver 1998, 33; see all of chap. 4). One study team (Bartfeld and Mayer 1994) found that 95 percent of fathers with no employment problems for the previous five years paid their ordered support regularly and that 81 percent paid in full and on time. A federal pilot study commissioned by the federal Office of Child Support Enforcement (OCSE) itself also found no serious problem of nonpayment. A full-scale government-sponsored study was planned to follow up the pilot, but OCSE cancelled it when the pilot study’s findings threatened the justification for the agency’s existence by demonstrating that nonpayment was not a serious problem."
(Excerpt) Read more at independent.org ...
On of the most interesting facts pointed out in this article is that the "deadbeat dad" frenzy was a phenomenon requiring "urgent action" by our rulers despite the lack of a public groundswell for such action.
It's open season on white males. Don't ever forget it.
The end result of any nanny state is a totalitarian police state. That’s why I get irritated when people bitch about how we’ve moved so much closer to Oceania under Bush, when the seeds were laid by Clinton. Before Katrina, there was Waco. Before Iraq, there was Kosovo and Mogadishu. Before the Patriot Act, there was AEDPA. Before warrentless wiretapping, there was Echelon. I can go on and on. Yet I still see these morons everywhere wishing for “the glory days of Bill Clinton.” I’m not a big fan of GWB’s, but I believe him to be a good and moral man. Which is something nobody can say with a strait face about Billy BJ.
Exactly. The mother gets the man’s paycheck (sometimes vice versa) for getting pregnant or breaking up family, with no conditions except the children live with them.
What is worse is that judges can throw the men in jail for not paying, with no trial, no defense, no conviction, and since he cant pay from jail he is hostage till his relatives come up with money. In comparision democrats and mcCain want to give terorists due process rights.
I have no problem with the law going after “dead-beat dads” if it’s proven that the dad has abandoned the family and is living well somewhere else.
The problem I have is with the courts or their reps deciding that dads who WANT to support their children should pay so much in child support the dad can’t afford a place to live. They don’t seem to care that those dads have bills just like the moms. And, I don’t like the fact that some of those moms don’t spend the money on child support, instead spending on themselves.
And, finally, the courts don’t pursue “dead-beat” moms they way they do the dads.
Don’t forget the army of bureaucrat “social workers,” mostly very liberal white females with suburban upbringing, whose sole purpose is to take children from poor families and put them in foster care. Mostly because the poor just don’t live the way the suburban libs think they should live. Then the kids wallow in foster care for months, develop attachment disorders guaranteed to make them juvenile delinquents in a decade, thus creating another army of liberal white female social workers of suburban extract known as “juvenile probation officers.”
The public welfare system is just a many-headed hydra that exists only to consume, and consumes to exist. Nothing good comes of it.
And the alternative is....
(drum roll, please)
........
I’ve always thought child support was wrong. Some people are quick to kill a family knowing they can still have some money coming in without the hassle of being a good spouse.
I think people should be more discriminating about whom they have sex with.
And this is coming from a guy who is owed more than 20K in cs. I set it at $10 a week for each of my 2 boys at my lawyer’s insistence that it should not be zero, and that was like almost 16 years ago. (I know the math doesn’t work out. There must be penalties in there or something)
Maybe he and Nancy Pelosi will listen to us this time?
Carolyn
Time to re-read “The Ballad of Carl Drega” while listening to the Clash’s “Working for the Clampdown”!
“deadbeat dad”. Feminazis love that term. Interesting how feminazis are responsible for men losing their jobs to unqualified individuals, and for throwing men into jail for not paying child support while they are unemployed.
Don’t forget the army of bureaucrat “social workers,” mostly very liberal white females with suburban upbringing, whose sole purpose is to take children from poor families and put them in foster care. Mostly because the poor just don’t live the way the suburban libs think they should live. Then the kids wallow in foster care for months, develop attachment disorders guaranteed to make them juvenile delinquents in a decade, thus creating another army of liberal white female social workers of suburban extract known as “juvenile probation officers.”
The public welfare system is just a many-headed hydra that exists only to consume, and consumes to exist. Nothing good comes of it.
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Brilliant post, imho!
I will add to it only this thought: that the “social worker” class et al are the judas goats of socialism’s slaughterhouse, useful in calming the doomed sheeple, but possessing no moral dimension, save self-preservation, whatsoever.
They put many in big debt , before the first real child support is due.
You can find yourself owning the system and friends of the systems thousands and thousands of $$$ on other charges, then add the daily interest rates.
Its evil...
finding yourself $10,000.00 in debt right off the bat...
Then they destroy your credit, and make you a felon, and if you get sick or disable ,or lose your job the meter don’t stop. Then you are put in jail, and the meter don’t stop.
This is why many, many just break or die
The prefect killing machine of fathers in the U.S.A.
What is doing it is the USC 42/666 Bradley laws.
The laws of Satan
Eliminate “no-fault” — i. e., unilateral — divorce and you will eliminate this bogus “child support” problem.
People in countries where potential divorces must be agreed to by both parties, with post-divorce financial support and living arrangements agreed on before the divorce is finalized, think that the American states where a person (usually a father) can be divorced against his will and subsequently impoverished, and through no fault of his own, are barbaric.
Sounds like Debtor’s Prison.
Or you get men that like to screw, even produce babies then go their own way.
Agreed.
Mom and Dad should have reasonable allowance for living expenses before child support is calculated. Dads should also have equal opportunity for child custody without crippling legal fees. And finally, no parent should be thrown in jail for non-payment - they should be “sentenced” to work ! Putting someone in jail for nonpayment of child support is just plain stupid. However, no parent owing child support should be able to collect state assistance (unemployment, welfare, whatever) either.
Now that’s throwing the baby out with the bath water !
Do not ever forget - with Government money comes Government controls. We need to post the story about capturing the hogs again.
“Sounds like Debtor’s Prison”
Um, that’s because it is, even if the courts (mostly libscum judges) have found a way to say that it isn’t. Unconstitutional as you can get. But it still goes on and on and on and on...
A lot of this tyranny comes from the demons of the "small claims" courts. What a fascist system that is.
See #25...
mutual aid, the curch, private charity, neighbors and family... you know, the institutions that sustained humaity for thousands of years before th ewelfare state came along...
And when the man goes on a shooting rampage, people wonder why.....
You REALLY think that the feminazi driven leftscum will hear the cries of the fathers’ movement? Seriously, or is that /sarc? It can’t be serious.
From the article: “(Presidential candidate Barack Obama recently revived this political line [that was used by Clinton]. ‘We have too many children in poverty in this country,’ he told a civil rights group in early 2007. ‘And don’t tell me it doesn’t have a little to do with the fact that we got too many daddies not acting like daddies.’)”
I just can’t believe that the fathers’ movement would be unwise and naive enough to hitch their carriages to the Donkeys on the left. I mean, just WOW.
My friends ex-wife went to Faixfax County family Court and lied on the documents to extort money from my friend. He had a hearing but now he has to take her to civil court to fight the fraud of the statement she make. The woman from the family court knew the statements were fraud but told her to write them on the form because the laws slanted in her favor.
Oh, I agree. I believe the states have been really unfair on the fathers. And, after being slammed with such a high child support payment most fathers don't have enough money to hire a lawyer to challenge and fight it. Maryland is typical.
Here's one scenario I heard about: Guy and girl break up. She moves out. Guy is stuck with house payment, insurance, parking, and catching up on all bills due, all of which have fallen behind cause they had only one income. (almost all homeowners have two incomes these days in order to make it). Now, the guy is losing everything - stuff repossed and house in foreclosure.
Court (or child whatever dept) decides he must pay almost $1,000 per month based on his salary of approx. $70k a year.
Now, tell me how a guy who can't afford to catch up on all bills in arrears is suppose to pay that kind of child support.
The icing on the cake is that he loses a job just at the same time when hiring is slower than the housing market.
Maybe he and Nancy Pelosi will listen to us this time?
Supporting Obama? Well he certainly knows how to take care of the "too many babies problem" doesn't he? Just kill babies, no child support problems.
There is NO EXCUSE for that behavior.
States get incentive to take control of the flow of cs dollars, 'for the children' of course. The fees and such are extra gravy and the dockets are packed full of cases that are brought over EVERYTHING at no cost to the 'plaintiff'.
Son's mother took me to court for insurance $$$, she AND the Co. attorney both actually thought I should pay her WHOLE 'family plan' premium on her HUSBANDS policy including THEIR daughter. The diff between 'couple' and 'family' was minimal, and the judge agreed that I wasnt responsible for the whole policy although I still ended up paying for their daughters share...
Add in $$$ for insurance, education, child care etc etc etc as well as the fact that the money is POST tax [with no claim to the deduction] then throw me in jail for not living in a dumpster behind wally world for 18 years...
FOR THE CHILDREN...
When property tax time comes, gobmint damn sure aint worried about if the kids get fed... pay or lose...
LFOD...
Orlando, you’ve been on the side of right in the past.
And you are definitely correct about Hitlery.
But I think you misunderstand Obama. I believe that he would put forward the same left-wing nostrums as Hitlery, but with a spoonful of sugar.
What makes you think that Obama would be different from any other Democrat?
There are probably not too many people out there who have not had a bad or traumatic childhood. We all don’t go around shooting up people.
Those people, the shooters at schools and malls, etc., are no different than homicide bombers....only their vehicle for killing is a little different.
There are right and wrong ways to hand life's situations.
What makes you think McCain would be? He's made common cause repeatedly with not just Dems, but the most liberal Dems in the Congress to pass unconstitutional laws. He's led the fight to deliver the death blow to the USA as a coherent nation, legalizing 20,000,000 undocumented, mostly uneducated Spanish speaking illegals.
Honestly, how much worse could Obama do?
You know I didn't vote for Bush twice so that we could invade Iraq. It may have been needed, but it probably wasn't. I appreciate that we've not been attacked again, but I don't think Iraq is the cause of that. Neither does almost anyone else. If McCain's only position that is conservative is keeping us in Iraq longer, well that's not much for a conservative to get excited about.
Agreed. I don’t like any of the candidates. Can’t we just take a mulligan on this election?
Yeah, ya think? Check out literature from Victorian England and the U.S.
Agreed.
Now some questions. Assuming, as in most cases, there was no physical abuse in realtionship: Are the wife, the lesbian judge, the super-liberal social worker innocent in your opinion? What about the documented cases where men WHO ARE NOT EVEN FATHERS are forced to pay child support? At what point, exactly, does the capricious action of an implacable government move those responsible from "innocent" to "culpable"?
Would a Jew in 1940 have been wrong to shoot the very nice German social worker lady running the census or refusing to issue the family passports at the local post office?
I don't claim to have the answers to these questions but some of the situations I've seen are so egregious that I am not surprised when people snap. Are they wrong? Probably. But that doesn't mean that it's not a completely foreseeable consequence of actions that the state, and its ever more sanctimonius enforcers, are taking.
And, before you go there I have never been divorced and am happily married for 20+ years.
Are you implying that the condition of the poor improved under the welfare state? Perhaps if you define well-being only in material terms, like a Marxist.
Three words “Roe versus Wade”. Only the mother gets to decide if the unborn baby lives or dies but if she alone decides it lives, the government takes away the sperm donor's (men's) due process rights and orders him to support the mother for 18 years (and maybe her boyfriend)along with other services he did not agree to, lawyers, therapists, social workers, lastly a judge with no trial throws him in debtors prison
From what I understand there are some men's organizations out there (somewhere) that are now taking a stand against the courts fool-hearty belief they can get away with this treatment of fathers. That IMO is the right way to handle it. Men have just been silent way too long on this issue.
Oh, BTW, IMO, the Jew in 1940 would have been wrong shooting the very nice German social worker lady running the census or refusing to issue the family passports at the local post office?
Orlando, I really believe your heart is in the right place but I will pray that you reconsider supporting Obama, in light of what you said here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1820748/posts?page=28#28
“Anybody that supports killing babies at the 9th month like Hillary, Boxer, N.O.W. & those radical feminists women studies groups are DENOMIC in spirit. They have no soul. They belong to the forces of the Devil.
Murder is Murder period” !
“They are showing the world their true spirits and boss.”
“It’s not of God”.
Obama not only supports abortion on demand but also supports allowing babies to die after they have been born after a botched abortion, by starving them to death. This is even a more radical position than Hillary’s. These are living,breathing, crying, children of God,His most innocent creations.
I am not suggesting that you support McCain, a lot of people here do not support him but please, for the sake of all that is holy, do not support Obama, he is the worst there is among the baby killers.
No he wouldn't. Governments need to know that there are lines they don't cross without people starting to shoot.
Sounds like you fathered a child you don’t want to pay for.
Not a father. I just dont follow the lynch mob when it’s obvious that are hanging the wrong man..
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