"Well I'm all broken up about their 'rights'!" -Inspector Harry Callahan
Posted on 02/16/2008 7:49:09 AM PST by no nau
Presidential hopeful Ron Paul opposes the extension of the Protect America Act of 2007 as the legislation violates the US Constitution.
"The misnamed Protect America Act allows the US government to monitor telephone calls and other electronic communications of American citizens without a warrant, which violates the Fourth Amendment," Paul said.
Speaking before the US House of Representatives on Wednesday, he said the Protect America Act sidelines the FISA Court system and places authority over foreign surveillance in the director of national intelligence and the attorney general with little if any oversight.
The 10-term congressman added that it does not provide for the Fourth Amendment protection of American citizens if they happen to be on the other end of an electronic communication where the subject of surveillance is a non-citizen overseas.
"We must remember that the original Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was passed in 1978 as a result of the US Senate investigations into the federal government's illegal spying on American citizens," said Paul.
The libertarian-leaning Texan noted that the only legitimate 'upgrade' to the original FISA legislation would be to allow surveillance of conversations that begin and end outside the United States between non-US citizens where the telephone call is routed through the United States.
"Congress should not use this opportunity to chip away at even more of our constitutional protections and civil liberties. I urge my colleagues to oppose this and any legislation that violates the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution," Paul concluded.
Constitutionalist Ron Paul is an outspoken critic of current US fiscal and monetary policies. He advocates a full troop withdrawal from Iraq and the abolishment of income taxes.
Isn't there some kind of loony bin that Paul and his 911 twoofer supporters can be shipped off to?
UHHH....KUMBAYA RONNIE...WITH AN EMPHASIS ON THE
BUB BY YAAAA
PART.....good god....
FISA is an unconsitutional restriction of the enmurated powers of the executive.
It’s a 70’s liberal construct.
What a clueless clown Ron Paul is on this issue.
People whine and moan and wring their hands over the wide spread rumor that Bush and Cheney are at the local library looking up what liberals read and call that the worst infringement on civil rights imaginable.
But, they never complain about the abuses of property rights perpetrated under the guise of environmentalism.
And speaking of Ron Paul; since he is so adamant bout not being a Washington insider and wanting to change the culture, why hasn't he motioned to release the David Barrett Report on IRS corruption during the last Hillary administration?
Source:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/12/fbi-recorded-27.html
At the end of 2006, the FBI's Telecommunications Intercept and Collection Technology Unit compiled an end-of-the-year report touting its accomplishments to management, a report that was recently unearthed via an open government request from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Strikingly, the report said that the FBI's software for recording telephone surveillance of suspected spies and terrorists intercepted 27,728,675 sessions. Twenty-seven million is a staggering number given that the FBI only got 2,176 FISA court orders in 2006 from a secret spy court using the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
Source:
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/10/10/Worldandnation/Memo_details_string_o.shtml
FBI agents illegally videotaped suspects, intercepted e-mails without court permission and recorded the wrong phone conversations during sensitive terrorism and espionage investigations, according to an internal memorandum detailing serious lapses inside the FBI more than a year before the Sept. 11 attacks.
wake up.
Source:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/12/fbi-recorded-27.html
At the end of 2006, the FBI's Telecommunications Intercept and Collection Technology Unit compiled an end-of-the-year report touting its accomplishments to management, a report that was recently unearthed via an open government request from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Strikingly, the report said that the FBI's software for recording telephone surveillance of suspected spies and terrorists intercepted 27,728,675 sessions. Twenty-seven million is a staggering number given that the FBI only got 2,176 FISA court orders in 2006 from a secret spy court using the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
Source:
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/10/10/Worldandnation/Memo_details_string_o.shtml
FBI agents illegally videotaped suspects, intercepted e-mails without court permission and recorded the wrong phone conversations during sensitive terrorism and espionage investigations, according to an internal memorandum detailing serious lapses inside the FBI more than a year before the Sept. 11 attacks.
wake up.
Between the snake oil salesman, the loony tune Congressman and Old Mr.McSleazy, America really is in trouble!
What is truly scary are the number of people in this country that think as Ron Paul does.
What, worried about invasion of privacy? Strange our founders were the same way. What’s scary are the number of people in this country who think it’s ok. Sure, even if Bush is doing good with this, what’s to stop a Hillary or Obama administration from using this for other purposes? Do you all ever think of unintended consequences?
Oh, don’t worry, Ron Paul was never much of a threat to the continued trampling of the Constitution. I’m glad he is still around to raise the issue.
Just wait until these so-called “tools” are used against conservative “terrorists” who want to threaten the unity and hope and big plans of a future Democratic administration. Then FR will be up in arms about these oppressive laws, if FR isn’t shut down, that is.
>>Do you all ever think of unintended consequences?
Apparently many conservatives do not nowadays. It seems that ignoring unintended consequences, one of the many diseases of the left, has even become common among conservatives.
LOL! Hysterical BS.
Of note is that the software at issue, the DCS-5000 gets information from carriers after they turn on surveillance on their switches once they get a court order (CALEA mandates the switches be wiretap-compliant). That means this number ostensibly has nothing to do with the government's secret warrantless wiretapping program, or the government's data-mining of billions of call records.
Your other link was about mistakes made in 2000, before current practices, before 911, and before the current Administration was even in power.
Really?
Perhaps you should revisit the IRS audits of Clinton Administration enemies, the Elian Gonzalez case, or the granddaddy of them all, Waco. Perhaps you should learn about COINTELPRO. The FBI/CIA infiltrated conservative as well as left-wing organizations.
The Republicans will be more than happy to call on the Constitution if the Democrats are elected and opt to send their private all volunteer army [it will be their army then] to fight in Africa, Russia, China, South America or wherever without declaring war.
Blind ignorance surrounds us.
This man is speaking out for us just like Ron Paul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpVdtwDSg9c
How dare they call this kook a Constitutionalist. He’s not.
Mr. Lincoln’s Secretary of War Mr. Stanton was correct when he observed that “..the Constitution of the United States is not nor shall it be a suicide pact.”
It’s ok Comrad, I assume you are OK with the police busting into your house as well just to check up on you whenever they want, since it’s for “national security.” I’m sure Clinton and other future crappy presidents will only use this for good and not for other federal disasters like Waco and Elian Gonzalez. /sigh it’s amazing how statist the Republican Party has turned in the last 8 years. When is the next Contract with America coming?
Just wait until Hillary has these powers.
Not to mention the Paul kooks here.
I guess you are ready to throw your rights away for them, huh?
Come to think about it, if there is a problem with the Second Amendment preventing the government from prohibiting people from possessing fully assembled guns, we probably need to repeal that also.
And by the way, one of the essential purposes of the First Amendment was to permit citizens to expose and describe in print, the malfunctions of elected public officials--Supreme Court has held Congress has the power to eliminate that right also (McCain Feingold)--First Amendment is really excessive at this point, as long as we are cleaning up the Constitution, probably ought to get rid of that also.
Habeas Corpus you say? I don't fully understand why it is that the courts have approved getting rid of that for citizens but if the courts say it is ok and the federal government wants to do it, might as well get rid of that also.
Since 1935, and Jones & Laughlin Steel, we have gotten rid of the limitation on the power of Congress to do whatever it wants, so why do we need all this language in the Constitution limiting the power of Congress to act at all--lets get rid of that also.
I could go on. Maybe what we need is a Constitutional Convention.
I do understand the S/W issues but when pressed the FBI will not say what the do with the "data of no interest". In wiretapping the FBI is out of control. Virtually every bit on electronic stuff that gets into the airwaves is now recorded. Good news bad news - they have about a 5 year backlog of stuff to listen too. Computer filtering it doing most of the work but there are still years of stuff a human needs to listen too.
BTW I do think there are 4th Amendment issues here but RP just goes over top in presentation. No this isn't just a W issue; JEH tapped the hell out of this country.
You show me anywhere in the Constitution where the word privacy is mentioned. I guarantee that you will not find it there.
The Founding Fathers were all good enough writers that had they intended for there to be a right to privacy they would have EXPRESSLY put it in there. Nothing needs to be implied or “found” by stretching the meaning or intent of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Of course this is how the Burger court found reason for “Roe”
I’m coming to your house at 2, wire tapping your phone and searching every knook and cranny in your house to see if you are aiding and abetting terrorism. I’ll also be monitoring your TV, what food you take in and what you search on the internet (including that “right wing extremist” website, Free Republic). If you will not let me, you are an enabler and a sympathizer and should have no rights, period.
I make no overseas calls to Mideast nations.
Would you rather a suitcase nuke go off in your city?
I sure wouldn’t. Oh, please don’t respond with that tired Franklin quote. Ben didn’t have to contend with savages like the Islamists.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
If that isn't the definition of privacy when dealing with government, I'm not sure what is.
Stopping jihadists is not unreasonable.
I have nothing to hide anyway. If they want to listen in on me ordering pizza from Vocelli’s, then they can be my guest.
We don't even have secure borders and you think wiretapping normal American's is OK. LOL. Build the wall, enforce illegal immigration laws first, have very, very tough background checks on all legal immigrants to the US and THEN let's talk about this. Until that's done, the suitcase nuke can go off anyway.
Such a model statist. You are no conservative.
Perhaps not, but certainly American citizens should have rights. Maybe these laws aren't being used to violate the rights of Americans now, but history shows that governments have a tendency to stretch, abuse, and misuse the powers they are given. What is used today to protect us from terroristic threats could very easily be used against us 10 or 20 years down the road. This is especially true when the government has little oversight or accountability.
Giving law enforcement these powers now will probably make us safer in many ways. But you have to admit that there is a significant long term risk involved. I don't think it's fair to question the allegiance of people who recognize this risk and are bothered by it.
It hurts their brain to ever think that far ahead.
Its not American citizens that are being eavesdropped on.
Can't wait to see how YObama-bama uses these wonderful 'protect' America powers.
Let freedom Ping.
You can live in that fantasy world if you want. Even if it were true, it won't hold any water under a Democratic president.
Foreign citizens in foreign nations have NEVER been subject to Constitutional protectections EVER by ANY decision of ANY court until after 9/11.
None of the intercepts originated in or ended on US territory. They were foreign in origin and foreign in destination, they were merely routing THROUGH the US. The Dems decided to hobble the US by encouraging the lawsuit that spuriously argued that communications that PASSED THROUGH the US were covered by the Constitution, which demanded that the intercepts which UNIVERSALLY were NEVER previously subject to review (since the Constitution does not cover a French Citizen in Belgium Calling A Turkish Citizen in Brazil SINCE THEY ARE HEY NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS OR EVEN IN FRIGGIN' AMERICAN TERRITORY) .
Talking about the intercepts being compared to the original FISA specs (FOREIGN NATIONAL CALLING INTO AMERICA OR TO AN AMERICAN CITIZEN) is absurd at best, but is simply irresponsible and deliberately misleading.
So your point is refuted, eliminated, and shown to be not only untrue, but deliberately misleading and false. In simpler words, your arguement is a lie of the highest order.
What’s that stench? Is it boiled frog?
What happens when these slowly creeping powers of the Federal government start to encroach on US? By a Democratic President?
Then, the wailing and gnashing of teeth shall begin.
Since it’s “our guy”, it’s okay!
The scary thing is that unlike a war against a well defined nation state, this War has the stench of the War of Drugs or the War on Poverty on it.
When will these powers ever expire? There is always the ‘threat’ of terrorism. There’s probably millions of Islamist Extremists all over the globe. The threat probably won’t end in our lifetime.
This should make conservatives very nervous. Especially with a new administration only months away.
Read Shadow Warriors you’ll never trust the FBI again. When I read the history of the FBI and the Biography’s of J Edgar Hoover it’s hard to believe that anyone ever trusted them in the first place.
Unfortunately you are correct. I'll probably be voting for the Constitution Party this year since our choices are liberal McCain, liberal Clinton or liberal Obama.
Thanks for that.
“Makes you wonder, why this guy is still in the race? He’s not garnering enough support to win the position of dog catcher.”
What makes me wonder even more is why you anti-Paul posters go on and on and on about the guy even though, as you correctly note, he hasn’t enough support to win the position of dog catcher.
Guys like do not understand that they can haul you away and they do not even have to tell your lawyer or your family where you are or if they even have you. There are 5-7 such cases right now. Habeas Corpus is gone.
Oh and exactly how many cases have been initiated and stopped terrorist actions because of wiretapping. Exactly NONE! Fort Dix was an informant and so and so on.
Besides as long as the border is open this is all just mental masturbation.
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