Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Exhibition: How Barbarian Loot Wound Up In The Rhine (German)
Die WElt ^ | 02/15/2008 | Peter Ditmar

Posted on 02/17/2008 7:55:29 PM PST by pierrem15

Exihibition in Bonn concerning loot plundered from Gaul by the Alemanni found in the Rhine (more than 1000 objects). This event is dated fairly exactly to the mid-third century by Roman records of a great defeat of Germans trying to get back to Germany after plundering Gaul. Apparently the Roman Army caught them in mid-stream, burdened with plunder. Bet it sucked to be them that day.

Story in German.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Germany; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: alemanni; dasrheingold; derringdesnibelungen; diewalkure; gaul; germany; godsgravesglyphs; gotterdammerung; rhine; roman; romanempire; rome; siegfried; thering; wagner
See Above
1 posted on 02/17/2008 7:55:32 PM PST by pierrem15
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: pierrem15

Gosh, that stuff is almost perfectly preserved. Click on the article picture to see more pictures of the loot.


2 posted on 02/17/2008 8:00:04 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam; SunkenCiv

Ping to you both.


3 posted on 02/17/2008 8:00:31 PM PST by ConservativeMind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pierrem15

4 posted on 02/17/2008 8:03:02 PM PST by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

No way that picture is of the actual site. Are we supposed to buy the idea that this stuff has just sat there in a nice pile, in a river, undisturbed, for 1700 years and still looks like it’s just sitting in somebody’s aquarium? I wouldn’t buy that even if it were in the river since WWII as part of some lost looting booty.


5 posted on 02/17/2008 8:16:19 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth (Get yer red meat, tobaccy and ammo, now. The krinton syndicate is moving back into the WH.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: WorkingClassFilth

Global warming disturbed the river bottom.


6 posted on 02/17/2008 8:18:31 PM PST by Rb ver. 2.0 (Global warming is the new Marxism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

That first pic HAS to be staged. No way an item can lay on the bottom of a river for 1800 years and not be covered with silt.


7 posted on 02/17/2008 8:28:07 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Blood of Tyrants

Yes, I think you’re right. Matter of fact, that looks more like an aquarium tank with a diver in it than the Rhine. But it’s still surprising these objects look so fresh.


8 posted on 02/17/2008 8:34:18 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Blood of Tyrants
I was wondering about that. But if the river bottom was scoured by higher flow once in while, then the heavy metal objects would accumulate in piles.

It's also possible hat the photo was taken after a water jet was used to excavate.

In any case, the items found are amazing, including the bronze head of a horse cut from a sculpture.

9 posted on 02/17/2008 8:35:44 PM PST by pierrem15 (Charles Martel: past and future of France)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: blam

Horse head cut from statue.

10 posted on 02/17/2008 8:40:22 PM PST by pierrem15 (Charles Martel: past and future of France)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: pierrem15; Billthedrill; AnAmericanMother; aculeus; MozarkDawg
Count on it winding up once and for all with the Rhinemaidens.
11 posted on 02/17/2008 8:56:08 PM PST by dighton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pierrem15
Isn't there something in the Nibelungenlied about gold being thrown into the Rhine by the Nibelungs? Maybe they can find that next.
12 posted on 02/17/2008 8:57:18 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pierrem15

it does not look like a silty stream but you would think the stuff would be dispersed- even from fishing activity or anchoring.


13 posted on 02/17/2008 8:58:43 PM PST by spanalot (*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pierrem15

So, they picked my pocket and tossed the evidence. No big deal....


14 posted on 02/17/2008 9:47:08 PM PST by tracer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pierrem15

bump for later


15 posted on 02/17/2008 11:25:46 PM PST by goldfinch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pierrem15

Personally I’ve always wondered about the ‘lost eagles’ of the legions of Varros.

No one ever found battle sites or discarded weapons that would be expected from a major loss.

On the other hand, they could have like the British soldiers in ‘The Lost Patrol’ where you never see one of the fiendish desert warriors as the patrol is whittled down one by one.


16 posted on 02/18/2008 6:15:15 AM PST by wildbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Verginius Rufus

In the article they speculate that the loot that often got lost when the Germans had to cross the Rhine again on their way back, might be the source for the Nibelungen-Rhinegold tale.


17 posted on 02/18/2008 8:20:13 AM PST by avid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: wildbill
The site of Varus' disaster (the Teutoburger Forest or Teutoburgiensis saltus) was finally discovered a few yeears ago (in the 1990s I think)...objects dating to exactly the right time period were found. There was a popular article in Archaeology magazine not long after the discovery.
18 posted on 02/18/2008 8:32:01 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Verginius Rufus

Dang, I must’ve missed that. I’ll do a google. Thanks.


19 posted on 02/18/2008 12:17:16 PM PST by wildbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ConservativeMind; blam; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; ...

· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic ·

 
Gods
Graves
Glyphs
Thanks ConservativeMind.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.
GGG managers are Blam, StayAt HomeMother, and Ernest_at_the_Beach
 

· Google · Archaeologica · ArchaeoBlog · Archaeology magazine · Biblical Archaeology Society ·
· Mirabilis · Texas AM Anthropology News · Yahoo Anthro & Archaeo ·
· History or Science & Nature Podcasts · Excerpt, or Link only? · cgk's list of ping lists ·


20 posted on 02/18/2008 12:17:41 PM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/____________________Profile updated Sunday, February 10, 2008)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: wildbill; pierrem15; Verginius Rufus
Personally I’ve always wondered about the ‘lost eagles’ of the legions of Varros.

I believe Tacitus wrote that two of the eagles were later recovered.

21 posted on 02/18/2008 8:20:40 PM PST by tarheelswamprat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: wildbill; pierrem15; Verginius Rufus
Personally I’ve always wondered about the ‘lost eagles’ of the legions of Varros.

I believe Tacitus wrote that two of the eagles were later recovered.

Correction - I should have checked before posting. It was Gibbon's account, and all three eagles were eventually recovered.

22 posted on 02/18/2008 8:28:19 PM PST by tarheelswamprat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
Spectacular, isn’t it?
23 posted on 02/19/2008 12:54:45 PM PST by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: tarheelswamprat; wildbill; pierrem15; Verginius Rufus
There's an excellent novel about the lost eagles by Ralph Graves, who also wrote "I, Claudius," on which the BBC series was based:


24 posted on 02/19/2008 1:08:28 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker

Yes, I’d love to see it displayed. Maybe they’ll send it over here at some point.


25 posted on 02/19/2008 1:10:21 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
That's an exhibition I'd travel to see.

One of the highlights of a trip to Rome for me was the Pantheon, because it is a window into how those buildings looked in their prime, before they were ruined. It's the same for me when I see perfectly preserved objects from the ancient world.

26 posted on 02/19/2008 1:16:37 PM PST by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: wildbill
Not much would be left behind except bodies. The Barbarians LOVED to loot Roman soldier corpses of their swords and helmets and armor.

The name William is from Gildhelm (glittering helmet); and was a title of honor for a Barbarian warrior who had taken a Roman helmet.

27 posted on 02/19/2008 1:18:47 PM PST by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: avid

28 posted on 02/19/2008 1:25:13 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Action is eloquence. - Shakespeare)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker

I loved Rome. My daughter was over there on a school trip last summer (she’s an interior design and architecture student), and I was pleased to see she saw almost exactly the same sights as I did, including Hadrian’s Villa on the outskirts.


29 posted on 02/19/2008 1:29:28 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
I, Claudius was by Robert Graves. He also did a fantastic translation of Suetonius' Lives of the 12 Caesars.
30 posted on 02/19/2008 1:30:46 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Action is eloquence. - Shakespeare)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Oh, well. I thought there was something wrong there, because the two books have different styles. Should have checked it. Both books are in our summer house in Maine.


31 posted on 02/19/2008 1:33:38 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

Et tu, Cicero?


32 posted on 02/19/2008 1:39:16 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Action is eloquence. - Shakespeare)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

You would absolutely love the Illustrated Lives of the 12 Ceasars. Must see dead tree.


33 posted on 02/19/2008 1:40:20 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Action is eloquence. - Shakespeare)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Lonesome in Massachussets

Already read it, but quite a long time ago, and I don’t know what became of my copy.


34 posted on 02/19/2008 2:14:26 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: pierrem15

“It’s also possible hat the photo was taken after a water jet was used to excavate.”

I don’t think those plants would be there if they were using a water jet.


35 posted on 02/19/2008 2:15:59 PM PST by dljordan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson