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Single Payer Systems Kill
humanevents.com ^ | 02/22/2008 | by Deroy Murdock

Posted on 02/23/2008 9:29:08 AM PST by kellynla

NEW YORK -- Before American voters embrace either Hillary Clinton’s universal-health scheme or Barack Obama’s somewhat less dirigiste single-payer proposal, they should consider the avoidable deaths that plague the mother of all state-run medical programs: Great Britain’s big-government National Health Service. Low-quality, taxpayer-funded health care killed more than 17,000 Britons in 2004, according to the TaxPayers’ Alliance in London.

No one can complain that the NHS is underfinanced. This year’s budget is $210 billion -- about $1.05 trillion if adjusted to match America’s population. NHS funding climbed 221.7 percent between 1996 and 2006. Despite such largesse, “we have not increased the pace of improvement in the most important measurement of its output -- its ability to save lives,” laments Professor Karol Sikora, a leader of Doctors for Reform, which hopes to inject competition and choice into British medicine.

Such goals are rare in a sector ensnared in bureaucracy. The British Department of Health supervises the NHS. In turn, the NHS includes Primary Care Trusts, NHS Trusts, and Regional Strategic Health Authorities. Drugs are controlled by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (warmly nicknamed “NICE”). The NHS Pay Review Body oversees staff compensation. Connecting for Health runs the National Programme for IT, reportedly Earth’s single, largest information technology initiative. Within this maze, it is no surprise that patient needs often yield to the wants of politicians and medicrats.

The consequences for these political considerations can be ugly.

Poor sanitation has become the NHS’ latest worry. The BBC’s Danielle Glavin worked undercover at a government hospital in Kent. “On my first day, as I emptied bins, swept, and mopped, I noticed old blood stains ingrained on the floor,” Glavin reported. In one surgical theater, “a blood-stained gown was left on a trolley for 24 hours, and used medical instruments were discarded in a sink for a day.”

This helps explain why the British government estimated that 9 percent of inpatients in 2000 suffered hospital-acquired infections. The bacterium Clostridium difficile often is associated with hospital outbreaks and extended medical stays. English and Welsh death certificates citing C. diff as a cause or contributing factor grew from about 1,000 in 1999 to 3,807 in 2005.

Diseases snuff Britons sooner than they do others in the developed world. A September 2007 Lancet Oncology article found 66.3 percent of American men alive five years after cancer diagnosis. Among male Finns, that figure was 55.9 percent, while only 44.8 percent of Englishmen survived after five years. Across the European Union, 20.1 females per 100,000 under 65 died prematurely of circulatory disease. Among British women, that number was 23.6.

Collectively, these data strongly rebuff the notion that America’s imperfect health care industry needs a booster shot of mandates and regulations. What it sorely lacks is more choice, competition, and freedom, and loads less government.

Sen. John McCain’s ideas -- among them, expanded health-savings accounts; individually owned, portable health-insurance policies available across state lines; and medical-lawsuit reform -- are the antidote to the “health care with a British accent” that Clinton or Obama would import, unless American voters stop them.

TPA examined the World Health Organization’s latest-available data to contrast the NHS with the Dutch, French, German, and Spanish health systems, which are less government-dominated. Specifically, the pro-market group measured “mortality amenable to healthcare” -- those deaths that a medical organization realistically should prevent. While those four countries averaged a 106.6 amenable mortality rate, Britain was almost 29 percent deadlier, with its rate of 135.3. TPA thus calculates that the NHS took the lives of 17,157 Britons who otherwise would have survived were they treated by doctors across the English Channel. This figure is more than two-and-a-half times Britain’s yearly alcohol-related deaths, and is quintuple its annual highway fatalities. Comparing 60 million Brits to 300 million Yanks, this is like a federally operated health agency eliminating 85,785 Americans in 2004.

“Anyone looking to reform the American healthcare system should learn lessons from the European experience,” says Matthew Sinclair, the TPA policy analyst who authored this study. “Britain’s NHS has produced dismally poor results. Thousands die every year, thanks to its poor performance and its failure to make good use of new resources. Other European healthcare systems deliver greater competition, decentralization, and independence from political meddling.”


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News
KEYWORDS: healthcare
“Anyone looking to reform the American healthcare system should learn lessons from the European experience,”

The American Federal government can't even profitably & successfully deliver the mail or operate AMTRAK.
1 posted on 02/23/2008 9:29:11 AM PST by kellynla
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To: kellynla
The American Federal government can't even profitably & successfully deliver the mail or operate AMTRAK.

Oh yeah!

Well, they're pretty damn good a collecting taxes..... :o

2 posted on 02/23/2008 9:37:13 AM PST by cowboyway ("No damn man kills me and lives." -- Nathan Bedford Forrest)
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To: kellynla

The problem is the majority of American are lazy and are bordering on functional stupidity.

They are bombarded with “the health care issue” by the big media because it is one of the issues that their party, the Democrats, are pushing. Do any of them really know squat about the socialist programs? NO, they simply believe change is good.

Oh, and another thing, they think the rich will pay for it.

Once the Feds have our health care system under their thumb, the completion of the destruction of our economy will be completed.


3 posted on 02/23/2008 9:40:47 AM PST by BILL_C (Those who don't understand the lessons of history are bound to repeat them!)
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To: kellynla

The important factor is that everyone is killed equally.


4 posted on 02/23/2008 9:44:14 AM PST by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: John Jorsett
The important factor is that everyone is killed equally.

Yes, it's important that productive members of society receive the same quality of care as provided to a career welfare bum.

5 posted on 02/23/2008 9:54:26 AM PST by Max in Utah (A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: kellynla
What the Democrats will probably do, if they gain the Presidency in November, is to open up to all Americans what they call "Congress' Plan", which is the Federal Employees' Health Benefit Program (FEHBP) open to federal and postal employees.

They've been suggesting this option for some time now. They would simply treat every uninsured American as if they were a new civil service employee and send them an enrollment form. In two weeks, the person would be covered and able to receive medical care.

This has been my health care program for years (I'm a retired federal employee), so I can tell you that I've followed this issue. AFGE (American Federation of Government Employees) and the state unions are pushing the same idea - one program for all Americans.

Within the plan, you can choose from Blue Cross or a myriad of HMO's. The coverage is adequate but not plush. There are many workers who have better coverage than I do. For instance, I have a relative who's a teacher, and her husband is a postal worker, and she calls his FEHB plan "crap" compared to hers, so they're both on her cushion plan that has a lot of frills.

That said, the FEHB plans have a low co-pay. For Blue Cross, I pay $15 a visit. I have no problem in getting treatment or getting my bills paid. However, if you need surgery, there's a 25 percent copay. So if your surgery is $6,000, then your copay is $1,500. Try paying off that bill on a retiree's pension.

I have concerns that if they open up this plan to all Americans and illegal immigrants and relatives of Indian doctors and computer professionals who come here and bring their parents who they then dump on welfare - then how is that going to dilute the quality of health care offered by the program? It'll turn into a gigantic welfare program with many people paying nothing but costs rising for those of us who are now paying premiums. And care will diminish, such as you have a choice of three doctors in your entire city area, like under welfare.

6 posted on 02/23/2008 9:57:45 AM PST by Ciexyz
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To: kellynla

Last time I was at the DMV I told them, “you guys should run the hospitals too. This is great.”


7 posted on 02/23/2008 10:01:11 AM PST by Jaysun (It's outlandishly inappropriate to suggest that I'm wrong.)
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To: cowboyway

“Well, they’re pretty damn good a collecting taxes..... :o”

If you think that, then you’ve got another thought coming.LOL

FYI, half of Americans don’t even pay federal income taxes.
And I won’t even get into the tens of millions of illegal aliens who don’t pay federal income taxes either.


8 posted on 02/23/2008 10:07:49 AM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: cowboyway

Sen. John McCain’s ideas — among them, expanded health-savings accounts; individually owned, portable health-insurance policies available across state lines; and medical-lawsuit reform — are the antidote to the “health care with a British accent” that Clinton or Obama would import, unless American voters stop them.

i WONDER IF OBAMAMA KNOWS ABOUT THISE THINGS...?


9 posted on 02/23/2008 10:35:54 AM PST by flat
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To: BILL_C

The problem is the majority of American are lazy and are bordering on functional stupidity.

They are bombarded with “the health care issue” by the big media because it is one of the issues that their party, the Democrats, are pushing. Do any of them really know squat about the socialist programs? NO, they simply believe change is good.

Oh, and another thing, they think the rich will pay for it.

Once the Feds have our health care system under their thumb, the completion of the destruction of our economy will be completed.

PESCIENT


10 posted on 02/23/2008 10:39:19 AM PST by flat
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To: kellynla

Interesting article. During the same period (2004), the United States suffered 849 combat deaths in Iraq. This, of course, is the fault of evil President Bush who had the audacity to resolve to rid the world of the tyrant Hussein and radical islamic terrorists.

Liberal facists in the UK killed a mere 17,000 during the same period foisting their brand of national socialism on an unsuspecting public. What would be the number of deaths in the U.S. with the same system?

Socialists hold the undisputed record for human deaths in the Twentieth Century, well over 60 million and counting. It seems that Hillary/Obama are determined to lay an early claim for the Twenty-First.


11 posted on 02/23/2008 10:39:44 AM PST by centurion316 (Democrats - Supporting Al Qaida Worldwide)
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To: Ciexyz

you got it all right in one paragraph.......

THE LAST ONE...


12 posted on 02/23/2008 10:43:51 AM PST by flat
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To: kellynla
The American Federal government can't even profitably & successfully deliver the mail or operate AMTRAK.

Bingo!

13 posted on 02/23/2008 10:46:09 AM PST by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
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To: flat

The costs always rise for those with even pennies to pay for it.


14 posted on 02/23/2008 10:50:28 AM PST by Ciexyz
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To: cowboyway
Well, they're pretty damn good a collecting taxes..... :o

Not really. They collect well from honest people. Dishonest people skate by all the time.

15 posted on 02/23/2008 10:56:25 AM PST by Onelifetogive (This is an Obama-nation!)
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To: kellynla
One thing about Socialism and socialized medicine is that it distributed misery, as well as, death equally.
16 posted on 02/23/2008 11:04:21 AM PST by jabonz08
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To: rb22982

bump for future ref


17 posted on 02/23/2008 11:07:59 AM PST by rb22982
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To: kellynla

bump


18 posted on 02/23/2008 11:55:28 AM PST by Oshkalaboomboom
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To: kellynla

Government health care will kill 85,000 people a year. We must either retain the presidency or gain the Senate. This nation is in serious trouble if a Democrat president has a Democrat Congress; especially since Rinos in the Senate will break a filibuster.


19 posted on 02/23/2008 12:41:15 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: xzins

There is virtually no way we regain the senate. We are likely to lose seats in the senate as 8 of the 9 ‘open’ or contested seats are held by Republicans. It would take a McCain tidal wave for us to regain the senate (at least a national 12% win probably)


20 posted on 02/23/2008 1:04:53 PM PST by rb22982
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To: kellynla; All

Can our Brit Freepers give us input on this? Otherwise, I think this thread will be lampooned as another “Yanks posting something about Britain that they know nothing about!”


21 posted on 02/23/2008 1:57:30 PM PST by kiriath_jearim
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To: BILL_C

[The problem is the majority of American are lazy and are bordering on functional stupidity.]

Man on the street questions.
Who was the last democrat president?
Who was the last republican president?
What is the President’s term in office?


22 posted on 02/23/2008 2:02:29 PM PST by dbacks (Taglines for sale or rent.)
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To: kellynla

Please see my tagline for the appropriate bumper sticker...


23 posted on 02/23/2008 2:04:34 PM PST by G Larry (HILLARY CARE = DYING IN LINE!)
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To: kellynla

Brilliant.

Need to bookmark this one. Anyone who’s lived in another country will realize that while our health care is not perfect (because nothing ever is), it’s better than anywhere else.

I hate the insane jury awards in malpractice cases, but thank G-d for malpractice suits even being ALLOWED in this country. Some CYA is over the top and cruel to doctors. But no CYA means no oversight and many needless mistakes, and doctors who think they are gods, and patients with no recourse.

Long live a free medical system in the USA.


24 posted on 02/23/2008 2:09:47 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: Jaysun
Last time I was at the DMV I told them, “you guys should run the hospitals too. This is great.”

Post of the Day nominee.

25 posted on 02/23/2008 2:10:30 PM PST by Yaelle
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To: kellynla

bookmark


26 posted on 02/23/2008 2:11:33 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: flat

“HSA’s etc...”
I’ve been in plenty of Democratic Congressional offices. They know lots about these, and HATE THEM.

The weird thing is that congressional staffers often enroll in the HSA plans, since they are affordable. There are at least 2 or 3 HSA enrollees in every Democratic office I’ve been in. There is sort of “underground support” for HSA’s in Democratic Washington among the cash-strapped staffers.


27 posted on 02/23/2008 2:23:26 PM PST by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: kellynla
In case we haven't realized this yet this country runs on capitalism period! A single doctor goes to school for 8 to 10 years, incurs all sorts of debt, opens a practice and incurs enormous liability insurance costs at the hands of slip and fall lawyers and then is expected to work diligently and keep up with innovations and invest in new equipment to increase the quality of life for his patients and he is now at the Mercy of the federal governments national healthcare system. Is it worth it? absolutely not! We will be subjected to third world doctors with poor medical educations, poor service, waiting times that will determine whether you survive or not, while the elite RICH DEMOCRATES WHO INSTITUTE THIS NIGHTMARE ARE PAYING THIER WAY AND GETTING QUALITY HEALTHCARE WE WERE FORCED TO GIVE UP. America promises opportunity It does not guarantee anything.
28 posted on 02/23/2008 2:26:44 PM PST by ronnie raygun (Id rather be hunting with dick than driving with ted)
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To: ronnie raygun

UMM yes mr r/g and so you tink that dr’s here are not just chompin at the bit to sink their teeth into a lib dem’s dreamboat of a single payer healthcare disaster/rip off? a buddy of mine is a dr in no. il...worked as a g.p. at a clinic there...once i asked him how he liked it...’dave’,he says, ‘im nuthin but a fed/state/clinic employee.....in order to make any real money at this how many patients do u think i have to see a single day?’ ‘dunno’, say i. ‘35’, says he. so this guy spends a 3rd of his live studyin to be a sawbones givin up a lot of hours of fun in his youth to become a freakin state and fed employee...
how rotten is that? He also said ‘im so overwhelmed number wise that i cant possibly spend as much time with my patients as i need, and they know it to, they feel rushed’
That ladies and gemmins was at least 10 yrs ago...fast forward to today and then 5 years form now after the lib/dems foist a socialized healthcare monster on unsuspecting american patients...’BEAM ME OUT OF THAT NIGHTMARE SCOTTY’
As mark styn once said.....’if america is forced into socialized medicine...where will canadian heart patients go to get treatment?’ IT’S THAT BAD FOLKS ....


29 posted on 02/23/2008 2:44:52 PM PST by flat
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To: Yaelle
Post of the Day nominee.

Thank you, Yaelle. Such an honor.
30 posted on 02/23/2008 3:06:14 PM PST by Jaysun (It's outlandishly inappropriate to suggest that I'm wrong.)
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To: kellynla
This is just spin.

Insurance companies don't produce anything. They just squeeze doctors and deny patients claims...so how can more of them result in better care?

Medical costs can be reduced by collective bargaining with drug companies, by tort reform, by getting rid of insurance companies. But none of that is enough.

The sickest 3% of those under 65 account for over 50% of medical costs for that group. In the over 65 age group the last couple of years of a person's life account for some HUGE percent of TOTAL medical spending. Severely reduce public spending on those two groups and almost anything else you do will be alright.

The bottom 50% of earners pay only 4% of income taxes (excluding FICA and Social Security). So how can they possibly pay for their own health care? On the other end of the scale the top 1/10th of one percent of earners pay something like 17% of income taxes and own 30% of the nation's wealth...so who says a more socialistic system wouldn't work? Of course it would.

31 posted on 02/23/2008 7:54:22 PM PST by liberallarry
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To: rb22982

The best we have ever done in Senate campaigns was when Sen. Bill Frist was in charge of the Senate campaign committee. Even though he has stepped down from the Senate, he should be appealed to on this issue. He seemed to have a real feel for it. Elizabeth Dole was a disaster and should never get anyplace close to the SCC ever again.


32 posted on 02/24/2008 2:16:49 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: kellynla

Bump


33 posted on 02/24/2008 2:40:01 AM PST by BunnySlippers (Buy a Mac ...)
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To: long hard slogger; FormerACLUmember; Harrius Magnus; Lynne; hocndoc; parousia; Hydroshock; ...
Socialized Medicine aka Universal Health Care PING LIST

FReepmail me if you want to be added to or removed from this ping list.
34 posted on 03/08/2008 5:50:18 PM PST by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: cowboyway
Well, they're pretty damn good a collecting taxes..... :o

Not so sure about that. Isn't the IRS owed millions from taxpayers?

35 posted on 03/08/2008 5:57:38 PM PST by pbear8 (The innocent cry out to God)
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To: pbear8
Not so sure about that. Isn't the IRS owed millions from taxpayers?

Compared to the trillions that they collect? I'd say that they're damn good at collection.

36 posted on 03/09/2008 8:38:52 AM PDT by cowboyway ("No damn man kills me and lives." -- Nathan Bedford Forrest)
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