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With Kosovo independent, Yugoslavia is finally dead.
Slate ^ | Feb. 22, 2008 | Christopher Hitchens

Posted on 02/24/2008 1:41:33 AM PST by Blackyce


fighting words

The Serbs' Self-Inflicted Wounds

With Kosovo independent, Yugoslavia is finally dead.

By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Friday, Feb. 22, 2008, at 12:51 PM ET

Someone with a good memory of the conversation once told me how Lord Carrington, then one of the "mediators" of the incipient post-Yugoslavia war, came to the conclusion that Slobodan Milosevic was a highly dangerous man. Well-disposed toward Serbia (as the British establishment has always been), Carrington told the late dictator that he understood Serb concerns about significant Serbian minorities in Bosnia and Croatia. But why did Milosevic also insist on exclusive control over Kosovo, where the Albanian population was approximately 90 percent? "That," replied Milosevic coldly, "is for historical reasons." It's a shame, in retrospect, that it took us so long to diagnose the pathology of Serbia's combination of arrogance and self-pity, in which what is theirs is theirs and what is anybody else's is negotiable.

We used to read this same atavistic proclamation by the hellish light of burning Sarajevo, and now we glimpse it again through the flames of the blazing U.S. Embassy in Belgrade, and by the glare of similar but less dramatic arsons set by Serbs in ski masks in northern Kosovo itself. But it needs to be understood that "Serbia" itself has lost nothing and has nothing to complain about. With the independence of Kosovo, the Yugoslav idea is finally and completely dead, but it was Serbian irredentism that killed the last vestige of that idea, and it is to that account that the whole cost ought to be charged.

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: antichristian; dhimmitude; dhimmwit; hitchens; islamofascists; jihad; jihadagitprop; kosovo; serbia; wrongside; yugoslavia

1 posted on 02/24/2008 1:41:36 AM PST by Blackyce
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To: Blackyce
Perhaps, but such tiny countries makes them very dependents of the European powers: Britain, and especially Germany and France.

Yougoslavia would have had a greater weight in the European Union than the sum of the States in which it has disintegrated.
2 posted on 02/24/2008 2:02:44 AM PST by J Aguilar (Veritas vos liberabit)
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To: Blackyce
There’s still plenty of corporations for the West to buy, currency manipulation and absorption into the EU..
3 posted on 02/24/2008 2:15:18 AM PST by endthematrix (He was shouting 'Allah!' but I didn't hear that. It just sounded like a lot of crap to me.)
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To: Blackyce

Wonder what Hitchens is gonna say when the Russian tanks roll into Kosovo...


4 posted on 02/24/2008 3:13:06 AM PST by jeddavis
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To: jeddavis
Wonder what Hitchens is gonna say when the Russian tanks roll into Kosovo...

He won't have to say anything, because it ain't gonna happen.

Despite some America-haters' wet dreams.
5 posted on 02/24/2008 4:04:10 AM PST by canuck_conservative
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Blackyce
It's a shame, in retrospect, that it took us so long to diagnose the pathology of Serbia's combination of arrogance and self-pity, in which what is theirs is theirs and what is anybody else's is negotiable.

That sums it up nicely.

7 posted on 02/24/2008 4:11:44 AM PST by txlurker
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To: Blackyce; Admin Moderator

Shouldn’t the title be “The Serbs’ Self-Inflicted Wounds”, not the byline?

Excellent article BTW, finally puts the lie to all the claims made by the history-denying Serbian Apologists on this forum.


8 posted on 02/24/2008 4:11:52 AM PST by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative
Excellent article BTW, finally puts the lie to all the claims made by the history-denying Serbian Apologists on this forum.

Agree..but man are they gonna be p!ssed when they read this.

9 posted on 02/24/2008 4:13:03 AM PST by txlurker
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To: Godebert; tarator; Uncle Chip; FormerLib; shuckmaster; steve8714; rmlew; bayouranger; bill1952; ...
The lies and distortions are over. Hitchens has you nailed.

Let the truth shine in!

Thus, and if we exempt some decisions made by Stalinist bureaucrats after the re-creation of Yugoslavia in 1945, Kosovo has never been treated or recognized as Serb territory within Yugoslavia and never at all by international treaties outside that former state. Even those hasty Stalinist decisions were later undone by Tito, who granted Kosovo a large measure of autonomy in 1974. It is very important to remember that Slobodan Milosevic launched his own petty and violent career, as the head of a Serb-Montenegrin crime family, precisely by canceling Kosovo's pre-existing autonomy in 1990, remaking himself as a nationalist demagogue instead of a Communist one, and bringing in the roof of the Yugoslav federation.
10 posted on 02/24/2008 4:26:49 AM PST by canuck_conservative
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To: Blackyce
With Kosovo independent, Yugoslavia is finally dead.

The dream of the WWII Croatian/Muslim Ustasha come true --

11 posted on 02/24/2008 4:30:25 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: canuck_conservative

Take me off your ping list, troll.


12 posted on 02/24/2008 4:41:56 AM PST by shuckmaster
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To: canuck_conservative

Kosovo’s stark warning

By Caroline B. Glick

http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | Kosovo’s US-backed declaration of independence is deeply troubling. By setting a precedent of legitimizing the secession of disaffected minorities, it weakens the long-term viability of multi-ethnic states. In so doing, it destabilizes the already stressed state-based international system.

States as diverse as Canada, Morocco, Spain, Georgia, Russia and China currently suffer problems with politicized minorities. They are deeply concerned by the Kosovo precedent. Even the US has latent sovereignty issues with its increasingly politicized Hispanic minority along its border with Mexico. It may one day experience a domestic backlash from its support for Kosovar independence from Serbia.

Setting aside its global implications, it is hard to see how Kosovo constitutes a viable state. Its forty percent unemployment is a function of the absence of proper economic and governing infrastructures.

In November 2007, a European Commission report detailed the Kosovo Liberation Army’s failure to build functioning governing apparatuses. The report noted that “due to a lack of clear political will to fight corruption, and to insufficient legislative and implementing measures, corruption is still widespread… Civil servants are still vulnerable to political interference, corrupt practices and nepotism.” Moreover, “Kosovo’s public administration remains weak and inefficient.”

The report continued, “The composition of the government anti-corruption council does not sufficiently guarantee its impartiality,” and “little progress can be reported in the area of organized crime and combating of trafficking in human beings.”

Additionally, the prosecution of Albanian war criminals is “hampered by the unwillingness of the local population to testify” against them. This is in part due to the fact that “there is still no specific legislation on witness protection in place.”

The fledgling failed-state of Kosovo is a great boon for the global jihad. It is true that Kosovar Muslims by and large do not subscribe to radical Islam. But it is also true that they have allowed their territory to be used as bases for Al Qaida operations; that members of the ruling KLA have direct links to al Qaida; and that the Islamic world as a whole perceived Kosovo’s fight for independence from Serbia as a jihad for Islamic domination of the disputed province.

According to a 2002 Wall Street Journal report, al Qaida began operating actively in Kosovo, and the rest of the Balkans in 1992. Osama bin Laden visited Albania in 1996 and 1997. He received a Bosnian passport from the Bosnian embassy in Austria in 1993. Acting on bin Laden’s orders, in 1994 his deputy, Ayman Zawahiri set up training bases throughout the Balkans including a training center in Mitrovica, Kosovo. The Taliban and al Qaida set up drug trafficking operations in Kosovo to finance their operations in Afghanistan and beyond.

In 2006, John Gizzi reported in Human Events that the German intelligence service, BND confirmed that the 2005 bombings in Britain and the 2004 bombings in Spain were organized in Kosovo. Furthermore, “the man at the center of the provision of the explosives in both instances was an Albanian, operating mostly out of Kosovo…who is second ranking leader of the Kosovo Liberation Army, Niam Behzloulzi.”

Then too, at its 1998 meeting in Pakistan, the Organization of the Islamic Conference declared that the Albanian separatists in Kosovo were fighting a jihad. The OIC called on the Muslim world to help “this fight for freedom on the occupied Muslim territories.”

Supporters of Kosovo claim that as victims of “genocide,” Kosovar Muslims deserve independence. But if the Muslims in Kosovo have been targeted for annihilation by the Serbs, then how is it that they have increased from 48 percent of the population in 1948 to 92 percent today? Indeed, Muslims comprised only 78 percent of the population in 1991, the year before Yugoslavia broke apart.

In recent years particularly, it is Kosovo’s Serbian Christians, not its Albanian Muslims that are targeted for ethnic cleansing. Since 1999, two-thirds of Kosovo’s Serbs — some 250,000 people — have fled the area.

The emergence of a potentially destabilizing state in Kosovo is clearly an instance of political interests trumping law. Under international law, Kosovo has no right to be considered a sovereign state. Even UN Security Council Resolution 1244 from 1999, which the KLA claims provides the legal basis for Kosovar sovereignty explicitly recognizes Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo.


13 posted on 02/24/2008 5:00:26 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: canuck_conservative
In recent years particularly, it is Kosovo’s Serbian Christians, not its Albanian Muslims that are targeted for ethnic cleansing. Since 1999, two-thirds of Kosovo’s Serbs — some 250,000 people — have fled the area.

The emergence of a potentially destabilizing state in Kosovo is clearly an instance of political interests trumping law. Under international law, Kosovo has no right to be considered a sovereign state. Even UN Security Council Resolution 1244 from 1999, which the KLA claims provides the legal basis for Kosovar sovereignty explicitly recognizes Serbian sovereignty over Kosovo.

The lies and distortions are over. Caroline Glick has you nailed.

Let the truth shine in!

14 posted on 02/24/2008 5:08:01 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Do a quick Amazon search if you want to see where Christopher Hitchens is coming from.


15 posted on 02/24/2008 5:15:20 AM PST by shuckmaster
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To: shuckmaster

Yep — where he is coming from and where he is headed to as well.


16 posted on 02/24/2008 5:33:40 AM PST by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: canuck_conservative

Who is more likely to be true more often? Glick or Hitchens?


17 posted on 02/24/2008 5:35:20 AM PST by steve8714 (Loyalty has an expiration date and is not transferable.)
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To: jeddavis

I’m sure there are enough Chechens there already to make that an ugly event.


18 posted on 02/24/2008 5:35:55 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: steve8714

Hitchens


19 posted on 02/24/2008 5:45:52 AM PST by canuck_conservative
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To: Blackyce

......irredentism......

Foul....... red flag for making up a word


20 posted on 02/24/2008 5:47:55 AM PST by bert (K.E. N.P. +12 . Never say never (there'll be a VP you'll like))
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To: bert
upon further review, the word is accepted as real and bert loses a timeout
21 posted on 02/24/2008 6:12:06 AM PST by Cheburashka (Liberalism: a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.)
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To: canuck_conservative
Serbs are the closest thing there is to normal, decent, middle-class working people in the Balkans and, beyond that, they are Christians. Christians simply don't do the kinds of things Serbs have been accused of; slammites do.

Moreover the US military is stretched to the max now and Europeans wouldn't lift a finger to help albunny kosovars; you could eliminate 90% of European crime by bombing Kosovo (the albunny parts of it) and the whole world knows it. Russia is well poised to call any sort of a Jorge/Condoloser Rice bluff in this one.

22 posted on 02/24/2008 6:29:58 AM PST by jeddavis
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To: Blackyce
Hitchens,just another irrelevant anglo-saxon who failed Balkans History 101 along with Clinton-Bush-Albright-Rice,McCain,et al.
23 posted on 02/24/2008 7:15:57 AM PST by gitmogrunt (When Catholic and Protestant Churches get torched,then maybe the West Will wake up.)
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To: canuck_conservative

sorry, try agaih.


24 posted on 02/24/2008 7:18:31 AM PST by steve8714 (Loyalty has an expiration date and is not transferable.)
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To: Uncle Chip; canuck_conservative
Even the US has latent sovereignty issues with its increasingly politicized Hispanic minority along its border with Mexico. It may one day experience a domestic backlash from its support for Kosovar independence from Serbia.

Of all the chatter back and forth over this, this is the most idiotic thing I've read.

If Gen. Lee and Jackson couldn't pry the south loose from the 19th century US Army, a bunch of mexican gangsters sure as hell aren't going to do any better in the 21st century.

The KKK never could gain critical mass under the -real- oppression of the US govt, so Aztlan is never going to get more than their fringe to accept "we refuse all this American welfare...we want Mexican Cleptocracy!"

25 posted on 02/24/2008 7:27:16 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: Blackyce

http://www.kosovo.net/default1.html


26 posted on 02/24/2008 7:30:51 AM PST by gitmogrunt (Hitchens, blind in one eye. When this happens to his church, then, and only then,he might get it!!!)
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To: Blackyce

divide and conquer.

This is foolish because this article was duplicated with EVERY Single little province.

Yougoslavia is not dead because all the propaganda pushed by tito for territorial aquisition is still going strong in the country-lettes.


27 posted on 02/24/2008 7:32:37 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: canuck_conservative

Sorry Goober but Hitchens is a rum soaked nasty socialist, God hating bum. He doen’t convince me of anything.


28 posted on 02/24/2008 8:34:51 AM PST by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: jeddavis; canuck_conservative
Moreover the US military is stretched to the max now and Europeans wouldn't lift a finger to help albunny kosovars; you could eliminate 90% of European crime by bombing Kosovo (the albunny parts of it) and the whole world knows it. Russia is well poised to call any sort of a Jorge/Condoloser Rice bluff in this one.

And if the US gets bogged down in Kosovo, there are any number of players willing to take advantage of the ensuing chaos. China could go after Taiwan. Iran could go after Israel.

29 posted on 02/24/2008 9:29:13 AM PST by E. Cartman (Huckaboob will never be Vice President.)
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To: sam_paine
If Gen. Lee and Jackson couldn't pry the south loose from the 19th century US Army, a bunch of mexican gangsters sure as hell aren't going to do any better in the 21st century.

Yes, but our politicians, McCain and Bush included, haven't the testicles to stand up and defend US sovereignity. If you want to see American cowards, easiest place to find them is in The White House and in the halls of congress.

30 posted on 02/24/2008 9:31:50 AM PST by E. Cartman (Huckaboob will never be Vice President.)
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To: jeddavis
when the Russian tanks roll into Kosovo...

Only if they come on flatcar after Kosovo buys some.

31 posted on 02/24/2008 9:32:27 AM PST by RightWhale (Clam down! avoid ataque de nervosa)
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To: E. Cartman
Yes, but our politicians, McCain and Bush included, haven't the testicles to stand up and defend US sovereignity (sic).

Oh grow up. Sure, Bush and McCain are going to sign over everything from the Houston Ship Channel to San Diego's Naval base to the nutty narco-mexican-government for a bag of tortilla chips by executive order. What an idiotic concept.

And Ike created the Interstate Highway system merely as a way to facillitate Russian invasion troops once they were ashore.

Go sell Alex Jones somewhere else.

32 posted on 02/24/2008 9:41:54 AM PST by sam_paine (X .................................)
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To: canuck_conservative

Its still Serbian territory even if it was (and I am not sure about your claims) were atonomous.

Do you canuck_conservative advocate for the northern half of “kosovo” to be split off from the main part of kosovo since Serbs are the predominant cultur in that part..?


33 posted on 02/24/2008 9:48:06 AM PST by JSDude1 (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56306 "MoveON McCain" To find McCain's Sorros)
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To: sam_paine
Oh grow up. Sure, Bush and McCain are going to sign over everything from the Houston Ship Channel to San Diego's Naval base to the nutty narco-mexican-government for a bag of tortilla chips by executive order. What an idiotic concept.

Like all good propagandists, you create your own strawman to knock down. In 2025,after Russian President for life Vladimir Putin recognizes Greater Azatlan, US President Chelsea Clinton, acknowledging reality, will concede that in the interests of self-determination, she will let those former states of America go in peace.

Hate to tell you, dude, most civilizations (not even Rome) don't end with a bang, they end with a whimper, exactly as our politicians are allowing ours to.

34 posted on 02/24/2008 9:53:56 AM PST by E. Cartman (Huckaboob will never be Vice President.)
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To: txlurker; canuck_conservative

“The Kosovo-Albanians have played us like a Stradivarius. We have subsidized and indirectly supported their violent campaign for an ethnically pure and independent Kosovo.We have never blamed them for being the perpetrators of the violence in the early ‘90s and we continue to portray them as the designated victim today in spite of evidence to the contrary. When they achieve independence with the help of our tax dollars combined with those of bin Laden and al-Qaeda, just consider the message of encouragement this sends to other terrorist-supported independence movements around the world. Funny how we just keep digging the hole deeper!”—Maj-Gen. Lewis MacKenzie


35 posted on 02/24/2008 10:45:59 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: canuck_conservative

Yeah, he hates Christians too.

Just like your Jihadists in Kosovo.


36 posted on 02/24/2008 10:46:51 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Blackyce
I wouldn’t stop for Christopher Hitchens or his analysis of the warm and fuzzy Albanians even if he WAS in a crosswalk.
37 posted on 02/24/2008 11:01:51 AM PST by Navy Patriot (John McCain, the Manchurian Candidate.)
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To: canuck_conservative
"Hitchens has you nailed."

The only thing that Hitchens ever "nailed" was his secretary, who he left his pregnant wife for.

Hichens has a special hatred for all things Christian, and especially all things "Orthodox Christian" because the Greek Orthodox mother of his children insisted on baptizing their children, and raising them as Christians. And she financially cleaned him out when he dumped her when she was pregnant, for his younger assistant.

If there is one lesson that every man should learn early on, it is "Never piss off a Greek woman!" But Hitchens has turned his failure at that life lesson into a political crusade.

38 posted on 02/24/2008 11:50:15 AM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe; Kolokotronis

I didn’t know that about Hitchens’ wife but I’m happy to hear it! LOL!


39 posted on 02/24/2008 12:38:17 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: Blackyce
You should, second, ask if you know of any case comparable to the Kosovo one, where a national minority was so long imprisoned within an artificial state.

Tibet?

No, I guess not as long.

40 posted on 02/24/2008 12:52:35 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: Bokababe; FormerLib

“Hichens has a special hatred for all things Christian, and especially all things “Orthodox Christian” because the Greek Orthodox mother of his children insisted on baptizing their children, and raising them as Christians. And she financially cleaned him out when he dumped her when she was pregnant, for his younger assistant.

If there is one lesson that every man should learn early on, it is “Never piss off a Greek woman!”

Such wisdom in one so young! I am impressed, BB! :)


41 posted on 02/24/2008 12:53:41 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
"If there is one lesson that every man should learn early on, it is “Never piss off a Greek woman!” Such wisdom in one so young! I am impressed, BB! :)"

We had a great example of that adage here in US some years back, when a Greek American bride-to-be whose father had spent over $100K on the pre-planned NY wedding, got jilted a day before the nuptials by her Greek British groom-to-be. All her family was already there in NY from all over the world, the wedding & reception was already paid for. So what did she do? Cry in her beer and skulk off? Shrink with embarassment? NO! She called the national news media! She then used the pre-planned "wedding reception" and turned it into a party celebrating "not marrying the wrong man"! That Greek girl was on every morning news show for a week, and on Oprah -- speaking sweetly about "how she forgave him, but she just didn't want to disappoint the relatives...". It was so bad for this poor guy, that he actually used "the honeymoon" tickets to try and escape the country and the public scorn (which listed his name, too), ONLY to have the news media follow him to the Bahamas! She couldn't have made that guy anymore of a "bachelor pariah" if she had held him down and tattooed "Loser" on his forehead!

I sat and laughed my tail off, thinking, "Damn! He must really be stupid! A Greek woman can be the best ally you'll ever have -- or your worst enemy -- and you made the WRONG choice!" LOL!

42 posted on 02/24/2008 1:30:58 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: jeddavis

Wonder what Hitchens is gonna say when the Russian tanks roll into Kosovo...

It never gonna happen, this is just the pissing contest between US and Russia, And Europe is taking all the blame, once Kosovo is divided they this and made up for lost time and move to better and prosperous things like African

PS name of the game is all oil and always was


43 posted on 02/24/2008 10:36:39 PM PST by King Lazar
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To: Uncle Chip
Actually, the dream of any decent individual from the former ex-Yu was the destruction of communist Yugoslavia.

Thank God it happened in my lifetime.

44 posted on 02/25/2008 3:05:11 PM PST by Diocletian
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