Skip to comments.Montanans Insist on Gun Rights
Posted on 02/25/2008 3:21:43 PM PST by kellynla
Montana officials are warning that if the Supreme Court rules in the D.C. gun ban case that the right to keep and bear arms protects only state-run militias like the National Guard, then the federal government will have breached Montana's statehood contract.
Nobody is raising flags for the Republic of Montana, but nobody is kidding, either. So far, 39 elected Montana officials have signed a resolution declaring that a court ruling of the Second Amendment is a right of states and not of individuals would violate Montana's compact.
"The U.S. would do well to keep its contractual promise to the states that the Second Amendment secures an individual right now as it did upon execution of the statehood contract," Montana Secretary of State Brad Johnson said in a Feb. 15 letter to The Washington Times.
The resolution also was signed by Rep. Denny Rehberg, Montana's lone Republican congressman, and state Sen. Roy Brown, who is running to unseat Gov. Brian Schweitzer, a Democrat.
The dispute goes back more than a century. Back in 1889, the settlers of the Montana territory struck a deal with the federal government: They agreed to join the union, and the government agreed that individuals had the right to bear arms.
That has worked fine for the past 118 years, but the Supreme Court is expected next month to hear oral argument in District of Columbia v. Heller, the appeal of a federal court decision striking down the District's gun-ownership ban on Second Amendment grounds.
The high court has not issued a broad ruling on Second Amendment law in almost 70 years, including the key question of whether it provides an individual right, like speech and jury trial, or a "collective right" held by state governments.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
A few days ago someone posted the average Montana household has eight guns.
The Second Amendment along with the rest of the Bill of Rights, was a necessary precondition for the ratification of the Constitution in the first place, so it’s plausible that abrogation of an individual right to arms would void the Constitution entirely, not just for Montana.
Give em hell Montana
When guns are outlawed
We haven’t seen anything yet. If Obama or Clinton get in, look out. And our side has the guns.
I think the South and the Southwest will follow Montana’s lead on this.
Oh really? You think McCain has no plans to increase gun restrictions? You think our CURRENT prez wouldn’t sign new gun laws into place?
If the court rules against us you will be amazed at how fast the RATs and LIBs moves take you’re property (guns) without due compensation. Bet on it!!!
Alabama Constitution states in:
Sec. 26 That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself
and the state.
I believe it. But I’d bet a dollar that at least 75% of those firearms are, for all practical purposes, useless to a militia.
muzzle loaders, antiques, novelties, rimfire rifles and pistols, small guage shotguns, oddball calibers, etc.
This might be worth keeping in mind.
Now if we can just get one of the southern coastal states to go on record in the same way...
Cool... I just saw your post after I posted.
Good. We may need them soon.
Well you'd be wrong. The average Montanan doesn't have the income to collect eclectic odd firearms. They own rifles, shotguns and large caliber handguns -- and they use them.
I lived their for four years, and really miss that state.
Need I remind you that even an oddball caliber round, if placed in the appropriate place, can change the world?
Or do you think that the 6.5x52mm Carcano was a “mainstream round?”
I just bought a new bushmaster assault rifle because I really think they will be outlawed again within the next 2 years. I’d like to buy something in 308 caliber too. But I can’t decide what I want...AR10, HK/CETME, or the new FN SCAR heavy.
Ecclectic odd firearms are acquired from dead relatives. I have plenty of them, and not one of them have I paid for. They all came from dead ancestors.
Well, I take that back, I have one old bolt action rifle in 8mm mauser that I bought. THere are lots of people out there buying old surplus rifles for cheap. And there are lots of people out there that inherited old 303 british rifles from their grandfather, who got it for about fifteen bucks after world war 2.
A 303 british is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?
Could get interesting,don’t know of anyone here that would hand over their arms,
THere’s always exceptions
The harder it is to find the proper ammo, the less useful the firearm in a warzone.
That depends on how much ammo you have.
If you are vehicle mounted and have 1000 rounds in the vehicle, that’s probably enough.
And after all, if it comes to it, all you need is enough rounds to eliminate a lone enemy or small squad and take *their* stuff, as the VC proved.
“take *their* stuff, as the VC proved.’
Someone that thinks,,rare indeed
Tell ya what, if there’s a war like in the movie “red dawn”, I’ll give you my old mauser with bayonet, and you can go capture some machineguns with it. I’ll cover you from a distance with my bushmaster.
If the enemy is better supplied and equipped than you are, take their stuff and use THEM as your supply train.
The Texas Constitution
Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.
If the Mauser is properly zeroed, in good working order and I’m 600 meters away, no problem. I’m no Carlos Hathcock, but I should be good for that.
My old man made it through two tours in VN and did some amazing things with a bolt rifle there. I’m not as good as he is, but I’ll do. And he was easily able to perform the feat you have just described.
HUH? 180gr bullet @ 100yds=2233fps
zeroed @100yds. Drop is 1.4 in. @ 150 yds and 2.1 inches @ 200yds.
Seems like a pretty potent weapon to me!
Where are you going to get reliable ammo?
3 Cheers to my aunt and cousins in Montana and those that they have elected to office.
I don't care how cold it gets in the winter.
Give them a couple of years
You might check out the following....http://www.mtssa.org/successes.phtml
Machine guns and silencers - killing old laws. As a holdover from the Prohibition era, Montana had laws making it illegal to possess full auto firearms using pistol-caliber ammo, or silencers, both in conflict with current federal law. MSSA succeeded with a bill (SB427, 1999) to wipe these archaic laws off the books.
tons of it at wally world, Sports Academy, most any gun store. 10 shot bolt action that will drop a bear is not to be taken lightly.
STATE OF OKLAHOMA
SECTION II 26
Bearing arms Carrying weapons.
The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons.
“Alabama Constitution states in Sec. 26: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself
and the state.”
I’m fulfilling my rights and responsibility here in North Alabama...
Load em' yourself.
Not if you want to hit... a fella out to 2,000 yards away--
However, for 300 yards or less... I have a backup piece.
I’ll cover all ya’ll from a mile or two out. ;-)
When in doubt, reach out and touch someone...
with 750 grains.
600 meters? That would be tough. You’d only get about two shots before they start to return fire.
Granted the sights say a thousand meters(I think, it might be 2000), but that’s meant to be done in large volleys shooting at very large targets or massed troops.
In other words, it never happens.
Really? I haven’t seen any 303 in years. THere’s no military on the planet still using it.
Out of one of the cases of ammo in my gun closet thank you!
Stock up before the revolution.
John Bingham, the main author of Sec. 1 of the 14th A., included the 2nd A. when he read the first eight amendments as examples of constitutional statutes containing privileges and immunities that the 14th A. applied to the states. So there is no doubt in my mind that the 2nd and 14th Amendments protect the personal right to keep and bear arms from both the federal and state governments as much as any other constitutional privilege and immunity protects other personal rights.
See the 2nd A. in the middle column of the following page from the Congressional Globe, a precursor to the Congressional Record.
You probably should have that .303 ammo on hand long before the SHTF. That really goes for any caliber, as ammo will fly off the shelves of every retailer at the slightest sniff of unrest. If said unrest actually occurs, there probably won't be any restocking going on for quite a while.
There are many people on record that have hit out to 800-1000 meters with a Mauser 98 in 8mm Mauser using only the iron sights.
And there are any number of dead US troops from WW2 that were casualties of the M98.
Also, it takes them a while to figure out where the rounds are coming from, if the shooter does his job properly.
Finally, I’ve seen someone get off all five rounds and get 5 hits on 5 separate targets at 800 meters in about 10-15 seconds. So it’s more than possible.
Well, if you team up with some guys to go make a move on some enemy somewhere, and you are down to 5 rounds or so, your buddies are going to want to donate a few rounds to you so you can maybe save their backsides when it gets hairy. If you’re carrying a stupid old 303, what are the odds, you think, that one of the others might have a few of those 303s in their pocket?
I’d say you’re SOL and your buddies aren’t gonna be real happy about you carrying an old relic that will turn into a club in about 5 pulls of the trigger.
Leave the relic on the wall and get something chambered for a NATO round. Stock up on NATO ammo. THen when you do team up with some buddies, YOU can be the one that donates a few rounds to the poor schlub that runs low and YOU can be the one that tells the yay-hoo with the 303 to give the antique back to gramps and go find something that doesn’t use extinct bullets, ramrods, or flint.
BTW, most of us are going to be too old to actually go hunting the enemy(if we aren’t already there) if and when it comes down to that. The oldsters with weapon caches will not likely be more than secret resupply bases for the kids that are doing the fighting. You won’t even be useful for that if all you got is a hodg-podge of old junk that nobody’s(meaning the kids that are doing the fighting) ever heard of.
Ultimately, I agree that you should have a long gun that chambers NATO ammo. Most of the ammo that you'll encounter when "hunting" will likely be 5.56x45, not 7.62x51. Taking the enemy's firearms isn't any tougher than going after the ammo alone. So, either buy something appropriate beforehand - or get one as outlined above *before* you're down to five rounds of .303/8mm Mauser/.30-06/whatever.
As an aside, there are a bunch of Ishapore Enfield SMLEs out there in 7.62 NATO. The definition of "relic" gets sort of fuzzy around the edges.
This makes me proud to be American!