Skip to comments.Montanans Insist on Gun Rights
Posted on 02/25/2008 3:21:43 PM PST by kellynla
Montana officials are warning that if the Supreme Court rules in the D.C. gun ban case that the right to keep and bear arms protects only state-run militias like the National Guard, then the federal government will have breached Montana's statehood contract.
Nobody is raising flags for the Republic of Montana, but nobody is kidding, either. So far, 39 elected Montana officials have signed a resolution declaring that a court ruling of the Second Amendment is a right of states and not of individuals would violate Montana's compact.
"The U.S. would do well to keep its contractual promise to the states that the Second Amendment secures an individual right now as it did upon execution of the statehood contract," Montana Secretary of State Brad Johnson said in a Feb. 15 letter to The Washington Times.
The resolution also was signed by Rep. Denny Rehberg, Montana's lone Republican congressman, and state Sen. Roy Brown, who is running to unseat Gov. Brian Schweitzer, a Democrat.
The dispute goes back more than a century. Back in 1889, the settlers of the Montana territory struck a deal with the federal government: They agreed to join the union, and the government agreed that individuals had the right to bear arms.
That has worked fine for the past 118 years, but the Supreme Court is expected next month to hear oral argument in District of Columbia v. Heller, the appeal of a federal court decision striking down the District's gun-ownership ban on Second Amendment grounds.
The high court has not issued a broad ruling on Second Amendment law in almost 70 years, including the key question of whether it provides an individual right, like speech and jury trial, or a "collective right" held by state governments.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
600 meters? That would be tough. You’d only get about two shots before they start to return fire.
Granted the sights say a thousand meters(I think, it might be 2000), but that’s meant to be done in large volleys shooting at very large targets or massed troops.
In other words, it never happens.
Really? I haven’t seen any 303 in years. THere’s no military on the planet still using it.
Out of one of the cases of ammo in my gun closet thank you!
Stock up before the revolution.
John Bingham, the main author of Sec. 1 of the 14th A., included the 2nd A. when he read the first eight amendments as examples of constitutional statutes containing privileges and immunities that the 14th A. applied to the states. So there is no doubt in my mind that the 2nd and 14th Amendments protect the personal right to keep and bear arms from both the federal and state governments as much as any other constitutional privilege and immunity protects other personal rights.
See the 2nd A. in the middle column of the following page from the Congressional Globe, a precursor to the Congressional Record.
You probably should have that .303 ammo on hand long before the SHTF. That really goes for any caliber, as ammo will fly off the shelves of every retailer at the slightest sniff of unrest. If said unrest actually occurs, there probably won't be any restocking going on for quite a while.
There are many people on record that have hit out to 800-1000 meters with a Mauser 98 in 8mm Mauser using only the iron sights.
And there are any number of dead US troops from WW2 that were casualties of the M98.
Also, it takes them a while to figure out where the rounds are coming from, if the shooter does his job properly.
Finally, I’ve seen someone get off all five rounds and get 5 hits on 5 separate targets at 800 meters in about 10-15 seconds. So it’s more than possible.
Well, if you team up with some guys to go make a move on some enemy somewhere, and you are down to 5 rounds or so, your buddies are going to want to donate a few rounds to you so you can maybe save their backsides when it gets hairy. If you’re carrying a stupid old 303, what are the odds, you think, that one of the others might have a few of those 303s in their pocket?
I’d say you’re SOL and your buddies aren’t gonna be real happy about you carrying an old relic that will turn into a club in about 5 pulls of the trigger.
Leave the relic on the wall and get something chambered for a NATO round. Stock up on NATO ammo. THen when you do team up with some buddies, YOU can be the one that donates a few rounds to the poor schlub that runs low and YOU can be the one that tells the yay-hoo with the 303 to give the antique back to gramps and go find something that doesn’t use extinct bullets, ramrods, or flint.
BTW, most of us are going to be too old to actually go hunting the enemy(if we aren’t already there) if and when it comes down to that. The oldsters with weapon caches will not likely be more than secret resupply bases for the kids that are doing the fighting. You won’t even be useful for that if all you got is a hodg-podge of old junk that nobody’s(meaning the kids that are doing the fighting) ever heard of.
Ultimately, I agree that you should have a long gun that chambers NATO ammo. Most of the ammo that you'll encounter when "hunting" will likely be 5.56x45, not 7.62x51. Taking the enemy's firearms isn't any tougher than going after the ammo alone. So, either buy something appropriate beforehand - or get one as outlined above *before* you're down to five rounds of .303/8mm Mauser/.30-06/whatever.
As an aside, there are a bunch of Ishapore Enfield SMLEs out there in 7.62 NATO. The definition of "relic" gets sort of fuzzy around the edges.
This makes me proud to be American!
“A few days ago someone posted the average Montana household has eight guns.”
Lightweights... I’ve got twice that in a single caliber. ;)
I have six but my dad has over 50.
I wouldn’t bet your life on that one. Most of my friends have at least 2 shotguns (12 and 20 gauge), 2-3 rifles (22-250, 243 and 7MM, 30-06, 308, etc) for small and big game, 2-3 pistols including 9mm, 40 caliber and 44 magnum. Every one of which will put a big hole in you. Not to mention the 50 calibre muzzle loader for the coyotes.
“AR10, HK/CETME, or the new FN SCAR heavy.”
What, no M14?
“A 303 british is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?”
By a press and components.
Dude, get with the times. M14s are antiques.
The military is getting rid of them for the new FN SCAR. The AR10 and the CETME/G3 variants are vastly superior to that old relic. And the G3/CETME variants are quickly becoming relics themselves. Unfortunatly, the AR10 is a never-was. I think it’s HK that has started making M16s with AK style gas systems. Hopefully they’ll start doing the same with the AR10. I’d like one of those.
If I wanted a relic, I’d go for a savage model 99 chambered for 308.
H&K is making the 416. Put it in sand or water, shake it off, and fire it.
Marksmen use the M-14.
Bumping this as Second Amendment-related threads are some of the ones I like most.
There certainly is an advantage to our experiences. LOL
That is pretty much how this individual citizen sees it.