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Montanans Insist on Gun Rights
The Washington Times ^ | February 25, 2008 | Valerie Richardson

Posted on 02/25/2008 3:21:43 PM PST by kellynla

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1 posted on 02/25/2008 3:21:45 PM PST by kellynla
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To: kellynla

Go Montana!


2 posted on 02/25/2008 3:24:44 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: kellynla; george76

A few days ago someone posted the average Montana household has eight guns.


3 posted on 02/25/2008 3:25:12 PM PST by LucyT
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To: kellynla

The Second Amendment along with the rest of the Bill of Rights, was a necessary precondition for the ratification of the Constitution in the first place, so it’s plausible that abrogation of an individual right to arms would void the Constitution entirely, not just for Montana.


4 posted on 02/25/2008 3:25:55 PM PST by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: kellynla

Give em hell Montana


5 posted on 02/25/2008 3:27:55 PM PST by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
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To: kellynla

When guns are outlawed

6 posted on 02/25/2008 3:28:07 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: mvpel

We haven’t seen anything yet. If Obama or Clinton get in, look out. And our side has the guns.


7 posted on 02/25/2008 3:29:20 PM PST by unkus
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To: kellynla

I think the South and the Southwest will follow Montana’s lead on this.


8 posted on 02/25/2008 3:32:35 PM PST by Mogollon (Vote straight GOP for congress....our only protection against Obama-Clinton, or McCain.)
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To: unkus

Oh really? You think McCain has no plans to increase gun restrictions? You think our CURRENT prez wouldn’t sign new gun laws into place?

Think again.


9 posted on 02/25/2008 3:34:39 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: mamelukesabre

Right.


10 posted on 02/25/2008 3:37:28 PM PST by unkus
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To: kellynla

If the court rules against us you will be amazed at how fast the RATs and LIBs moves take you’re property (guns) without due compensation. Bet on it!!!


11 posted on 02/25/2008 3:38:55 PM PST by Waco
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To: Mogollon

Alabama Constitution states in:

Sec. 26 That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself
and the state.


12 posted on 02/25/2008 3:40:09 PM PST by silentreignofheroes (I'm Southron,,and I Vote..,..)
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To: LucyT

I believe it. But I’d bet a dollar that at least 75% of those firearms are, for all practical purposes, useless to a militia.

muzzle loaders, antiques, novelties, rimfire rifles and pistols, small guage shotguns, oddball calibers, etc.


13 posted on 02/25/2008 3:41:27 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: kellynla; Joe Brower
" Montana officials are warning that if the Supreme Court rules in the D.C. gun ban case that the right to keep and bear arms protects only state-run militias like the National Guard, then the federal government will have breached Montana's statehood contract. "

This might be worth keeping in mind.

Now if we can just get one of the southern coastal states to go on record in the same way...

14 posted on 02/25/2008 3:46:54 PM PST by OKSooner
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To: silentreignofheroes

Cool... I just saw your post after I posted.


15 posted on 02/25/2008 3:48:19 PM PST by OKSooner
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To: LucyT

Good. We may need them soon.


16 posted on 02/25/2008 3:48:44 PM PST by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: mamelukesabre
But I’d bet a dollar that at least 75% of those firearms are, for all practical purposes, useless to a militia.

Well you'd be wrong. The average Montanan doesn't have the income to collect eclectic odd firearms. They own rifles, shotguns and large caliber handguns -- and they use them.

I lived their for four years, and really miss that state.

17 posted on 02/25/2008 3:50:37 PM PST by ElkGroveDan (When you choose the lesser of two evils, you still have evil.)
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To: mamelukesabre

Need I remind you that even an oddball caliber round, if placed in the appropriate place, can change the world?

Or do you think that the 6.5x52mm Carcano was a “mainstream round?”


18 posted on 02/25/2008 3:52:19 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: unkus

I just bought a new bushmaster assault rifle because I really think they will be outlawed again within the next 2 years. I’d like to buy something in 308 caliber too. But I can’t decide what I want...AR10, HK/CETME, or the new FN SCAR heavy.


19 posted on 02/25/2008 3:53:08 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: ElkGroveDan

Ecclectic odd firearms are acquired from dead relatives. I have plenty of them, and not one of them have I paid for. They all came from dead ancestors.

Well, I take that back, I have one old bolt action rifle in 8mm mauser that I bought. THere are lots of people out there buying old surplus rifles for cheap. And there are lots of people out there that inherited old 303 british rifles from their grandfather, who got it for about fifteen bucks after world war 2.

A 303 british is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?


20 posted on 02/25/2008 4:01:21 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: OKSooner

Could get interesting,don’t know of anyone here that would hand over their arms,


21 posted on 02/25/2008 4:03:08 PM PST by silentreignofheroes (I'm Southron,,and I Vote..,..)
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To: Spktyr

THere’s always exceptions

The harder it is to find the proper ammo, the less useful the firearm in a warzone.


22 posted on 02/25/2008 4:03:50 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: mamelukesabre

That depends on how much ammo you have.

If you are vehicle mounted and have 1000 rounds in the vehicle, that’s probably enough.

And after all, if it comes to it, all you need is enough rounds to eliminate a lone enemy or small squad and take *their* stuff, as the VC proved.


23 posted on 02/25/2008 4:05:15 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

“take *their* stuff, as the VC proved.’

Someone that thinks,,rare indeed


24 posted on 02/25/2008 4:10:30 PM PST by silentreignofheroes (I'm Southron,,and I Vote..,..)
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To: kellynla

BTTT


25 posted on 02/25/2008 4:12:46 PM PST by 1COUNTER-MORTER-68 (THROWING ANOTHER BULLET-RIDDLED TV IN THE PILE OUT BACK~~~~~)
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To: Spktyr

Ha.

Tell ya what, if there’s a war like in the movie “red dawn”, I’ll give you my old mauser with bayonet, and you can go capture some machineguns with it. I’ll cover you from a distance with my bushmaster.


26 posted on 02/25/2008 4:14:24 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: silentreignofheroes

Yup...

If the enemy is better supplied and equipped than you are, take their stuff and use THEM as your supply train.


27 posted on 02/25/2008 4:15:02 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Mogollon

The Texas Constitution
Article 1 - BILL OF RIGHTS
Section 23 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.


28 posted on 02/25/2008 4:16:19 PM PST by ol' hoghead (He is not here; for he is risen.)
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To: mamelukesabre

If the Mauser is properly zeroed, in good working order and I’m 600 meters away, no problem. I’m no Carlos Hathcock, but I should be good for that.

My old man made it through two tours in VN and did some amazing things with a bolt rifle there. I’m not as good as he is, but I’ll do. And he was easily able to perform the feat you have just described.


29 posted on 02/25/2008 4:18:05 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: mamelukesabre
A 303 british is just about useless.

HUH? 180gr bullet @ 100yds=2233fps

zeroed @100yds. Drop is 1.4 in. @ 150 yds and 2.1 inches @ 200yds.

Seems like a pretty potent weapon to me!

Where are you going to get reliable ammo?

How about:

Image Hosted by MyFiero.com

30 posted on 02/25/2008 4:18:31 PM PST by TexasRedeye (Eschew obfuscation)
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To: kellynla

3 Cheers to my aunt and cousins in Montana and those that they have elected to office.


31 posted on 02/25/2008 4:18:37 PM PST by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: kellynla
Should they seceed; I'm moving there ASAP.

I don't care how cold it gets in the winter.

32 posted on 02/25/2008 4:18:53 PM PST by Red Boots
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To: mamelukesabre
I believe it. But I’d bet a dollar that at least 75% of those firearms are, for all practical purposes, useless to a militia.

Give them a couple of years

You might check out the following....http://www.mtssa.org/successes.phtml

Machine guns and silencers - killing old laws. As a holdover from the Prohibition era, Montana had laws making it illegal to possess full auto firearms using pistol-caliber ammo, or silencers, both in conflict with current federal law. MSSA succeeded with a bill (SB427, 1999) to wipe these archaic laws off the books.

33 posted on 02/25/2008 4:25:31 PM PST by Robert357 (D.Rather "Hoist with his own petard!" www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1223916/posts)
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To: mamelukesabre
Where are you going to get reliable ammo? (.303)

tons of it at wally world, Sports Academy, most any gun store. 10 shot bolt action that will drop a bear is not to be taken lightly.

34 posted on 02/25/2008 4:25:54 PM PST by MrPiper
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To: kellynla

CONSTITUTION

OF THE

STATE OF OKLAHOMA

SECTION II 26
Bearing arms Carrying weapons.

The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from regulating the carrying of weapons.


35 posted on 02/25/2008 4:27:32 PM PST by monkeycard (There is no such thing as too much ammo.)
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To: silentreignofheroes

“Alabama Constitution states in Sec. 26: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself
and the state.”

I’m fulfilling my rights and responsibility here in North Alabama...
ROLL TIDE!


36 posted on 02/25/2008 4:28:57 PM PST by 2nd Bn, 11th Mar (The "P" in Democrat stands for patriotism.)
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To: mamelukesabre
A 303 british is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?

Load em' yourself.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=534835

37 posted on 02/25/2008 4:51:37 PM PST by ElkGroveDan (When you choose the lesser of two evils, you still have evil.)
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To: 2nd Bn, 11th Mar

ROLL TIDE,!!


38 posted on 02/25/2008 4:53:35 PM PST by silentreignofheroes (I'm Southron,,and I Vote..,..)
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To: mamelukesabre
Re: A 303 british is just about useless.

Not if you want to hit... a fella out to 2,000 yards away--

However, for 300 yards or less... I have a backup piece.

39 posted on 02/25/2008 4:58:22 PM PST by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: mamelukesabre

I’ll cover all ya’ll from a mile or two out. ;-)

When in doubt, reach out and touch someone...

with 750 grains.

Mike


40 posted on 02/25/2008 5:00:48 PM PST by BCR #226 (The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: Spktyr

600 meters? That would be tough. You’d only get about two shots before they start to return fire.

Granted the sights say a thousand meters(I think, it might be 2000), but that’s meant to be done in large volleys shooting at very large targets or massed troops.

In other words, it never happens.


41 posted on 02/25/2008 5:04:32 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: MrPiper

Really? I haven’t seen any 303 in years. THere’s no military on the planet still using it.


42 posted on 02/25/2008 5:06:39 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: mamelukesabre
A 303 British is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?

Out of one of the cases of ammo in my gun closet thank you!

Stock up before the revolution.

43 posted on 02/25/2008 5:09:20 PM PST by ME-262 (Nancy Pelosi is known to the state of CA to render Viagra ineffective causing reproductive harm.)
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To: kellynla; All
Beware of discussions about the 2nd A. that don't also mention the 14th Amendment. Here's why...

John Bingham, the main author of Sec. 1 of the 14th A., included the 2nd A. when he read the first eight amendments as examples of constitutional statutes containing privileges and immunities that the 14th A. applied to the states. So there is no doubt in my mind that the 2nd and 14th Amendments protect the personal right to keep and bear arms from both the federal and state governments as much as any other constitutional privilege and immunity protects other personal rights.

See the 2nd A. in the middle column of the following page from the Congressional Globe, a precursor to the Congressional Record.

http://tinyurl.com/y3ne4n
Note that the referenced page is dated for more than two years after the 14th A. was ratified. So Bingham was evidently reassuring his colleagues about the scope and purpose of the ratified 14th Amendment.
44 posted on 02/25/2008 5:20:56 PM PST by Amendment10
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To: mamelukesabre
A 303 british is just about useless. Where are you going to get reliable ammo?

You probably should have that .303 ammo on hand long before the SHTF. That really goes for any caliber, as ammo will fly off the shelves of every retailer at the slightest sniff of unrest. If said unrest actually occurs, there probably won't be any restocking going on for quite a while.

45 posted on 02/25/2008 5:30:45 PM PST by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: mamelukesabre

There are many people on record that have hit out to 800-1000 meters with a Mauser 98 in 8mm Mauser using only the iron sights.

And there are any number of dead US troops from WW2 that were casualties of the M98.


46 posted on 02/25/2008 5:31:31 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: mamelukesabre

Also, it takes them a while to figure out where the rounds are coming from, if the shooter does his job properly.

Finally, I’ve seen someone get off all five rounds and get 5 hits on 5 separate targets at 800 meters in about 10-15 seconds. So it’s more than possible.


47 posted on 02/25/2008 5:33:28 PM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Charles Martel

Well, if you team up with some guys to go make a move on some enemy somewhere, and you are down to 5 rounds or so, your buddies are going to want to donate a few rounds to you so you can maybe save their backsides when it gets hairy. If you’re carrying a stupid old 303, what are the odds, you think, that one of the others might have a few of those 303s in their pocket?

I’d say you’re SOL and your buddies aren’t gonna be real happy about you carrying an old relic that will turn into a club in about 5 pulls of the trigger.

Leave the relic on the wall and get something chambered for a NATO round. Stock up on NATO ammo. THen when you do team up with some buddies, YOU can be the one that donates a few rounds to the poor schlub that runs low and YOU can be the one that tells the yay-hoo with the 303 to give the antique back to gramps and go find something that doesn’t use extinct bullets, ramrods, or flint.

BTW, most of us are going to be too old to actually go hunting the enemy(if we aren’t already there) if and when it comes down to that. The oldsters with weapon caches will not likely be more than secret resupply bases for the kids that are doing the fighting. You won’t even be useful for that if all you got is a hodg-podge of old junk that nobody’s(meaning the kids that are doing the fighting) ever heard of.


48 posted on 02/25/2008 6:05:07 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: mamelukesabre
If people are going to be "hunting the enemy", then they can do it with whatever rifle and caliber floats their boat. Others have commented on the "field resupply", which you turned into some sort of futile, storm-the-machine-gun-nest scenario. How about picking an easier target, like a supply truck crew at the end of a convoy?

Ultimately, I agree that you should have a long gun that chambers NATO ammo. Most of the ammo that you'll encounter when "hunting" will likely be 5.56x45, not 7.62x51. Taking the enemy's firearms isn't any tougher than going after the ammo alone. So, either buy something appropriate beforehand - or get one as outlined above *before* you're down to five rounds of .303/8mm Mauser/.30-06/whatever.

As an aside, there are a bunch of Ishapore Enfield SMLEs out there in 7.62 NATO. The definition of "relic" gets sort of fuzzy around the edges.

49 posted on 02/25/2008 6:24:25 PM PST by Charles Martel (The Tree of Liberty thirsts.)
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To: kellynla

This makes me proud to be American!


50 posted on 02/25/2008 7:16:55 PM PST by villagerjoel (Give me liberty, or give me death!)
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