Skip to comments.What's wrong with Conservatives (Long vanity received in email and worth the time)
Posted on 02/25/2008 4:56:17 PM PST by Danae
I received this in email and it's so good and so concise, I had to publish it here.
I do not wish to take up your time, but I feel compelled to comment briefly on the disappointment and apathy that many conservatives are expressing with regard to the current administration and the likely Republican nominees. It must be pointed out that there has never been in a Republican Primary in our lifetimes any want for a conservative candidate that meets all of the criteria that conservatives say that they want, and the 2000, 2004, and 2008 Primaries were and are by no means any exception. In all of these Primaries, however, these true conservative candidates were eliminated early on from the competition. There are only two possible causes for this, either there are not enough true conservatives to keep them afloat, or else the true conservatives are not all voting. Regardless, it is not the fault of the Republican Party or its leadership that a true conservative is not the nominee, and true conservatives sitting out an election will not make any changes in the Party or its potential candidates the next time around. If anything, rather than "punish" the Party, it will make it more likely that there will be no true conservative candidates in the Primaries the next time. Moving to a third party will not cause a true conservative to be elected president either, but rather will only serve to remove even more true conservatives from the Republican Party, with the same aforementioned results.
My reasons for saying all of this is that true conservatives have to learn to take what they can get and work to change the minds of the electorate going forward. I never had any illusions about the extent of George W's conservatism, but in retrospect I believe that he will go down in history as one of America's greatest presidents. His actions to keep this country safe from terrorism, rescue the economy, and fix Social Security have been exactly what has needed to be done, and have only failed to the extent that those who oppose every good thing that he stands for have been successful in stopping them. The fact that so many people hate him shows all the more how much of a true statesman he is in doing what is right in a given situation regardless of who gets their feelings hurt. In a culture that oozes love and adoration for the likes of Madonna, MTV, Desperate Housewives, Fidel Castro, etc., to be the object of its hate and contempt is a badge of honor in and of itself. So even though he was not and is not a "true" conservative, he is a great man nonetheless and has done a great deal of good for the country.
This brings me to some of the biggest issues in this campaign - some of which even those who claim to be true conservatives have completely opposing views on. There is, of course, the war. Let's put that one in perspective. In 1941 we entered into a global war with not only with the nation that initially attacked us but also with every nation that was allied with it. The circumstances of that war dictated that the best strategy for overall success was not to concentrate first on the nation that actually attacked us, but rather on one of its allies (which nation, by the way, had never attacked us and had been saying previously that it had no quarrel with us). The war went on for years, and ended with us occupying all of the defeated nations, removing their governments, putting them back on their feet with new leaders, and paying a great deal of money to get them started again. Despite this, resentment and anti-American activities went on in those countries for years after the conflict was over (some would argue that it goes on even today). For better or for worse, that is how it went.
The present conflict began in 2001 when we suffered an attack that was arguably worse than the one that we suffered in 1941, and we have again gone to war not only with our attackers but also with the nations that are allied with them. Our leaders have again determined which of those nations to focus on at which point in time in order to achieve ultimate victory in the shortest possible time with the least possible cost. Yet many Americans today - many of whom are conservatives - complain that we are attacking the wrong countries, that we are occupiers, that we spending too much money on the war, that we are just causing people in those countries to hate us, that it is taking too much time, and that too many American soldiers have been killed. However, no one has ever complained that the 300,000+ American soldiers that were killed in World War II was too high a price to pay, or that Roosevelt and Truman should have been impeached. Our casualties in this war, by comparison, are very light.
Furthermore, it is very difficult to find any documentation showing that Japan ever had as a goal conquest of the American continent. Had we lost or remained out of the war in the Pacific it is arguably likely that things in the United States today would be no different than they are now. However, it is without controversy that Islam is fighting for Global domination. The Islamic leaders are working to revive the empire that began with their religion in the 7th Century, which was stopped in Western Europe a few centuries later, and which was finally toppled by the Allies in the First World War. To ignore the history and the writings of these people in their Koran and other books and in their public speeches is like trying to ignore the ravings of Adolf Hitler in his Mein Kampf and in his public speeches. To try to negotiate with these people is like Chamberlain trying to negotiate with Hitler just before the start of the Second World War. The only way to deal with those who would revive the Islamic Empire is to completely subdue them with overwhelming force or else destroy them. A large percentage of Americans today, however, do not want to believe that these things are true, so they simply choose not to. These people will always vote for the person who tells them that he or she will abandon the war, order the troops to come running home, and will cause the Islamic leaders to love and embrace us just as we are, or they will not vote at all. These people are in both political parties, and in the Republican Party they may very well sit out the Primaries and the election. All Americans from all parties, however, need to unite behind this war effort and not rest until we have brought it to a permanent end, and certainly all conservatives need to get behind the Republican Party in this most necessary endeavor.
It does not stop with this issue, however. A significant percentage of the American electorate today does not want to hear the truth on many of the crucial issues that we must face. For example, many people today who have lost their jobs in the manufacturing industry do not want to be told that their jobs are gone forever and that if they want to continue to eat they must make a career change and retrain for other positions, so again they simply choose not to believe it. These people will vote for the person who says that he or she will give them their jobs back with higher wages than they had before, or else they will not vote at all. Again, these people are in both parties. This is how elections work, at least it is how they work now. Furthermore, since this kind of thinking is in full force during the Primary campaigns as well as the general election, it defines what it means to be "electable", and electability is as big a concern in the minds of Primary voters as the issues themselves. It is why, ultimately, true conservatives who tell the truth about these issues cannot make it through the Primaries, much less the general election. It is why the hearts of the electorate must be changed, not the Republican Party, and in the meantime true conservatives must work for the best that they can get. Quitting NEVER achieves a goal that is illusive even by hard work and diligence.
Another major factor in this "electability" concept is fear. Insane views that have nonetheless become popular that conservatives themselves don't hold still cause them to fear the groups that do hold them. Conservatives start trying to "get along" with the contemporary culture in order to be popular and, in the process, become less and less functionally conservative. Many people today, for example, believe that the "poor" in this country are decent, hard-working men and women who are being "oppressed" and kept in shanties by Republican politicians, CEOs and the rest of corporate America so that the same can have all of the money and power to themselves and enslave everyone else. These people believe that anyone who has worked hard, worked smart, is successful, and who has more money than someone else who has not and is not must of somehow stolen or cheated that money from the latter. People who believe these things will therefore always vote for the person who says that he or she will take the largest amount of money away from the "rich" and give it to the "poor", and though true conservatives know better than such nonsense, they still fear that they will not be popular if they do not tow this line to at least a certain extent. They therefore try their best to avoid any confrontation on the issue instead of meeting it head-on, as it should be met, with truth and reason.
Another very powerful group of people today believe that the Earth is some sort of deity to be worshipped, and that mankind is puny and insignificant, despite the fact that we have apparently brought "Earth" to her knees in the form of man-made global warming, pollution, mining, logging, etc. These people believe that laws need to be passed to protect "Earth" from "feeble" man. In the religious views of these people, causing the extinction of a species of animal is the greatest sin that can be committed, despite the fact that species have gone and continue to go extinct as a matter of nature for as long as the world has existed to the present time, with no effect whatsoever on nature or society. The "morals" of these people teach that animals and trees are more important than human beings (usually by far), and that laws should be passed to force all Americans to comply with these paradigms, regardless of their detrimental effect on individual property owners and on society as a whole. These are nothing more or less than the doctrines of a religion, and yet these same people think that laws against the killing of unborn children or for the allowing of Creation Science to be taught alongside Evolution as a competing theory in public schools are examples of a few "religious nuts" forcing their "morality" on everyone else. They are the same people who scream "Separation of Church and State!" and run crying to the ACLU when they find out public school students are having a Bible study during breaks in the school day instead of dealing drugs or engaging in various sexual activities, and yet they have an entire pagan agenda that they insist be legislated from first to last. People who believe these things therefore will vote for whoever promises that he or she will fight to protect the "environment". As ridiculous as all of this is, conservatives still fear these people and do everything that they can to "go along to get along", and that is why the Republican Party ends up with the nominees that it does.
Yet another group of not a few people in America today believe that males of European ancestry are inherently evil, seeking only to subdue or destroy anyone who is a woman or is of non-European descent. These people believe that everyone other than WASP males are inherently good and want only to have a world of peace, love, and happiness. They believe that the day that all of the male descendants of the founders of this country are removed from any position of power, placed in re-education camps, and have all of their possessions confiscated to make reparation for every evil ever committed since this nation was founded will be the day the Utopia is realized for America and for the world. People who believe these things will vote for the person who promises that he or she will fight for the least number of restrictions on any form of immigration, legal or illegal, and for the greatest amount of money to be taken from America and distributed to the "Third World" countries. Again, conservatives don't want to appear at odds with this type of mindset for whatever reason, and so they let these people gain and hold power and to put their policies into law and other action. Conservatives let themselves loose more than they get defeated, and this is what we go through during every Primary.
Finally, though, it is not true that the Republicans are the same as the Democrats, as many conservatives today would have us believe. It was the Democrats who brought us Tammany Hall, the Civil War, segregation, both incarnations of the KKK, lynchings, the League of Nations, Social Security, the New Deal, the Great Society, the Korean and Vietnam wars. Today the Democratic Party stands firmly in support of all of the bizarre viewpoints mentioned previously, and both candidates presently fighting for the nomination of that Party have ACU conservative voting records of less than 10%. Conversely, it was the Republicans that brought us Abraham Lincoln, Emancipation, Reconstruction, Civil Rights, Ronald Regan, and victory in the Cold War. The current Republican frontrunner has an 82+% conservative voting record during his many years in the Senate, and while this is not the score of a "true" conservative, neither is it anywhere near the record of either of the Democratic candidates. There is no fight that one can undertake where you choose to forfeit 82% of your goal so that you can achieve less than 10% of your goal , and yet that is what precisely many conservatives are advising us to do. It is a mindset that make no more sense than the crazy views that we criticize in the Democratic Party, and yet it seems to be more and more popular among conservatives today. We must stop reasoning with our emotions and start reasoning with our heads, or we will find ourselves in an infinitely worse position even than we are today.
Those are my thoughts on the whole matter, for what they are worth.
Is there a Cliff Notes version?
There is plenty wrong with pretenders.
I know the guy who wrote it.
Not worth the read. More accomodationist, Neville Chamberlain-esque “conservatism.”
Ahhhh, another Mcpain pitch.
John McCain would not bring anything of value to the Presidency of the United States.
Not at all.
Has nothing to do with McCain, we could be talking about ANY of the last batch of GOP contenders.
You should read it, its about what accomidating has gotten us.
McCain’s most recent ACU rating was 65%, not 82%. He has been moving leftward.
I don’t see anything here that we haven’t already seen a hundred times in these “McCain is a Republican so vote for him” threads.
The problem is that McCain isn’t just mildly liberal, he’s totally out of control on such issues as freedom of speech and control of our borders. Illegal immigration has been disastrous under Bush, but it would get far worse under McCain.
I’m not arguing that people should vote for Obama, who is probably worse than hillary. I’m just saying that our choices are extremely limited. McCain is the worst Republican candidate we have seen since Nelson Rockefeller lost the nomination. The Republican party was suicidal to put a guy like him forward.
The truth of the matter is that McCain isn't a conservative at all. He's an anti-First Amendment, anti-Second Amendment, anti-tax cut, pro-amnesty, pro-abortion (you can't be for federally-funded embryonic stem cell research and claim to be "pro-life"), pro-global warming pseudoscience liberal who spends more time siding with Democrats than Republicans.
And need I point out that McCain wants to close Guantanamo Bay, grant the civil liberties of American citizens to terrorists, and deny our interrogators the very tools that make terrorists crack?
And we're supposed to excuse all that because that clown has an 'R' by his name?
Thanks, but no thanks.
I can’t aruge with that very much at all. I don’t like our choices either.
Yes and no.
yada, yada, yada...Go vote for McCain.
The current Republican frontrunner has an 82+% conservative voting record during his many years in the Senate,
Isn't Mcpain the current republican front runner?
Well, I agree, and please don’t think I am a McCain supporter. To me this is more about what the state of the part is that has gotten us this dog’s dinner. It’s too late for 08. Now is the time to be thinking about the FUTURE and about how NOT to end up with this again.
beats voting to Obama
There is NOTHING wrong with conservatives.
There is plenty wrong with pretenders.
Exactly — REAL CONSERVATIES founded this country, established our values, wrote the D of I, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And helped fight to give us our rights and freedoms and set up a system that supported those freedoms.
Yes, it is the PHONY conservatives, the hack RINOs who are more interested in personal power, than they are about America, that are our problem. Real conservatives are the only people that will SAVE this country from the damage of liberalism and socialism.
Welcome to FR.
There is a third possibility, one closer to the actual situation, IMHO.
The early primaries are loaded towards the more liberal states. Thus, conservative candidates do not do well in them. They lose momentum and financial support. Conversely, since both parties hold most of their primaries or caucuses on the same dates, or only off by a week or two, this same effect drives the Democratic candidates leftward and/or eliminates any less than full socialists from the running early on.
I heard some speculation that this was deliberate, and done by Clinton Inc, mostly. But if so, it backfired on Hillary. She was no longer as desirable to the Yuppie/Yippie crowd by 2008, and those left leaning states went somewhat more towards Obama than towards her. The merely Pink Democrats fell by the wayside about as early as the conservative Republicans.
Not so, Danae!
And you didn’t have to take 10 long paragraphs to say what has been hashed and re-hased ad nauseum for a month, now—that Mr. “10% Of What Conservatives Supposedly Want” McAmnesty is better than “0%” with the Obamanation! Since you’re obviously not a conservative and most certainly not a conservative ideologue, you have no cause to criticize those true conservatives like me as somehow being “unpatriotic” by sitting this one out or voting third party.
Let me tell YOU something, Danae or whatever your name is! There WILL come a day when there’s a conservative third party on the ballot in EVERY state. Maybe it won’t happen in this election, but it will in coming years. Why? Because conservatives have “had it” with the left-leaning GOP that gave us Jorge Bush, John McCain, Trent “the rug” Lott, Newt “I destroyed my first wife” Gingrich and Haley “the blowhard” Barbour who along with Gingrich destroyed the Contract with America and forced NAFTA down our throats, costing a gazillion American jobs.
You go ahead and vote for your man McNasty. We’ll vote or not vote, as we wish. On the day after the November election, we’ll have one evil President to deal with again—just as we did Bush—and it will be a long four years. Maybe by 1011 we consevatives will get it together, maybe not.
But we’ll fight you RINO b**tards every inch of the way, and it won’t be pretty! If there’s one thing I’ve learned since becoming an Indy con to the right of Pat Buchanan, it is that NO party controls ME and never will! I’ll chose my issues and fight for my beliefs and if the GOP loses The White House, so be it. They’ve screwed conservatives long enough! It’s time they got a dose of their own medicine...
Here’s the problem with ‘conservatives’. Too many people are worried about what the rest of America is going to think in the general election. That’s not the purpose of a primary- A primary is where you back the guy who most accurately reflects your views, not where you back the guy by whom you think everyone else will be less offended.
Too much triangulation politics, not enough common sense.
Here’s another problem. Too many people who really don’t care if the government is bloated and expensive. Everybody’s got something to gain from some government agency. The control freaks have bought off the free citizens- for now.
Too much greed, not enough responsibility.
How about this- too many people who are afraid of freedom. Everyone wants some government employee to come along and wipe their butt.
Too much dependence, not enough independence.
So, the problem with conservatives isn’t conservatives. The problem lies with the ‘conservatives’ who are actually RINOs.
What do we gain by accomodation and compromise? More McCains. Instead of just looking at victory at any cost in the next election, we should be planning and working for where the conservative movement is going in the future, beyond the next election.
If we accept any Republican candidate, no matter how liberally repulsive, we are nothing but the b*tch of the Republican Party, bending to THEIR will. What we want is to make them realize how necessary conservatives are to them; make them accomodate US, the True Conservatives.
But which did declare war on us, in observance of it's treaty obligations with the nation that we declared war on after it attacked us.
I've never seen any analysis of what motivated the Little Corporal to do that, he certainly had no problems breaking his own treaty with Joe Steel.
There are two main factions.
1. “Free trade” minority, libertine, opposed to moral laws, substituting witch hunts against families for morality and handing our manufacturing base to communist nations. Division propaganda and misrepresenting candidates come from this prevailing faction.
2. “Fair trade,” moral majority, ignorant, avoiding evidence and clambering for politicians whose “free trade” and anti-family voting records disagree with their rhetoric.
Both are ignoring our defense in face of a monstrous, building enemy coalition. When Iran—the keystone of that enemy coalition—has its minimum desired number of nuclear weapons, she’ll probably launch on western Europe instead of Israel. They want the West, and our leadership (constituencies—not politicians) is handing it to them.
We’re spoiled rotten.
The Republican Party carefully planned and executed a primary system that allowed dims and independents to vote in OUR primaries in overwhelming numbers. Case in point... Florida... a State where mcnasty won by 5 or 6%... yet 25% of his vote came from self declared independents and 5% came from cross over dims. Conservatives were outnumbered in the first four primaries by moderate Republicans, dims and indies... and by Florida’s primary... mcnasty had won. I do not even get a primary vote until March 4th. Since your first premise is so wrong the rest of your post is of little relevance to me.
True, but only to a certain degree. McCain represents the continuance of not just an occurrence, but of a trend. He's much farther from being a conservative, on more issues, than Bob Dole or either Bush.
I stopped reading right there.
Halfway decent job of trying to ward of Islamism while opening the borders to the Reconquista; no thanks. GWB is not, and never was fit to carry the used gym towel of a REAL conservative like Goldwater. I am ashamed to have had him as our president and have been from the instant he said he would sign another ‘assault weapon’ ban.
The writer of that email is a misinformed moron, to put it gently.
There’s nothing wrong with conservatives. I plan on finding several to vote for in the various races.
Agreed. There is no lasting victory on any front when our side sells out our nation's sovereignty to the corrupt government of Mexico and it's rampant lawlessness.
Maybe, but only after I've voted against him first. John Kerry can be against and then for, and so can Texans (if they have strong stomachs and weak noses), Ohioans, and others whose primary votes are now worth about as much as the Vice Presidency has been historically.
Total agreement bump.
Sorry, but I don’t follow you there.... Danae is the only name I have ever posted here as. Been here a while as well.
Just to clarify your post:
Germany was NOT required to declare war on the US because the
Tripartite Pact (between Germany, Japan and Italy) only required the
parties “to assist one another with all political, economic and
military means when one of the three contracting powers is attacked.”
On Dec. 7, 1941 Japan attacked the US, so Germany was not required by
the pact to come to Japan’s aid. It was Hitler’s decision to declare
war on the US, a grave mistake.
You lost me. I was replying to ari-freedom in post #35 here.
that is some way of saying ‘thank you’ hehe
100% agreed bump!
Oops! My Bad! (spanks self)
Hehe. And it was one heckuva way of saying, 'Welcome to FR!' ;-)
*****I never had any illusions about the extent of George W’s conservatism, but in retrospect I believe that he will go down in history as one of America’s greatest presidents.******
Tells me a lot about who is writing this tripe! A Bush-bot
Bush has spent this country into a very deep hole
Bush has grown the size of government more than LBJ
Bush has destroyed the Republican Party
Bush has sent money everywhere but here at home.
Bush did fight the war against terrorist, even though poorly, but the nation building over there is irresponsible.
Bush is for amnesty.
To say Bush will be regarded as anything but a loser, any time in the future is a joke.
Yawn. Wake me up when one of these people have something new to say.
Well at least they had a good typing lesson.
ping for later