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Is Kosovo Serbia? We ask a historian
guardian.co.uk ^ | February 26 2008 | Noel Malcolm

Posted on 02/26/2008 12:42:59 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe

Edited on 03/10/2008 3:22:09 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

"Kosovo is Serbia", "Ask any historian" read the unlikely placards, waved by angry Serb demonstrators in Brussels on Sunday. ...

History, for the Serbs, started in the early 7th century, when they settled in the Balkans. Their power base was outside Kosovo, which they fully conquered in the early 13th, so the claim that Kosovo was the "cradle" of the Serbs is untrue.


(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: clintonswar; dhimmapologist; dhimmitude; europe; illegalimmigrants; islamofascists; jihad; jihadapologist; kosovo; serbia; worldhistory

1 posted on 02/26/2008 12:43:01 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

250 years. So only as Serbian as say . . . all of the states of the United States are American.


2 posted on 02/26/2008 12:44:37 PM PST by Greg F (Do you want a guy named Hussein to fix your soul? Michelle Obama thinks you do.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Wall off the muslims. Then let them fight. /half sarcasm
3 posted on 02/26/2008 12:46:31 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Texas is a breakaway Republic.

Should it be returned?


4 posted on 02/26/2008 12:48:27 PM PST by NoLibZone (If the Clinton years were so great for the libs why is Obama doing so well?)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

What would a Turk historian say? Many at first thought the Archduke had been assassinated by a Turk because of the loss of Kosovo.


5 posted on 02/26/2008 12:50:05 PM PST by RightWhale (Clam down! avoid ataque de nervosa)
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To: Greg F

Florida was Spanish for 250 years. Things change.


6 posted on 02/26/2008 12:50:28 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Florida was traded to Britain for Cuba.


7 posted on 02/26/2008 12:55:05 PM PST by Greg F (Do you want a guy named Hussein to fix your soul? Michelle Obama thinks you do.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Arizona, New Mexico, California, Colorado, Texas were once Mexican Territory, now they are American. In a few years they’ll be Mexican again. Get over it.. things change.


8 posted on 02/26/2008 12:56:13 PM PST by gitmogrunt (Maybe blind in one eye, and half your brain tied behind your back?)
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To: Greg F

Started reading, then saw that it was from the Guardian. Folks, that paper is the “Air America” of the UK. Only, it’s even less truthful...if that’s possible. Take the really, really low scorers in the UK university testing system and hire them...there - you have the Guardian reporters and editors.


9 posted on 02/26/2008 1:01:24 PM PST by Da Coyote
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"than there is between the Byzantine Empire and Greece."

More than a few Greeks might take umbrage with this statement.

BTW, you've posted a lot of interesting articles today. Appreciated.

10 posted on 02/26/2008 1:07:02 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: gitmogrunt

What a terrible precedent it was for us to support the separation of those states from the sovereign Christian nation of Mexico, in violation of international law, and overstepping our UN mandate. That’s really going to come back and bite us in the ass.


11 posted on 02/26/2008 1:10:38 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Greg F
Florida was traded to Britain for Cuba.

???
I thought it traded to the US for the western half of Oklahoma and and player to be named later...
... that's after badass Any Jackson invaded spanish held Florida without the consent of the POTUS.

12 posted on 02/26/2008 1:16:48 PM PST by TeleStraightShooter (The Right To Take Life is NOT a Constitutional "Liberty" protected by the 14th Amendment)
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To: TeleStraightShooter

1763 Spain cedes Florida to England in exchange for Havana, Cuba as part of a bargain in the settlement of the Seven Years’ War. The east and west territories of Florida become the 14th and 15th British colonies in the Americas.

1776 American Revolution.

1784 Spain regains control of Florida from England as part of a peace treaty that ended the American Revolution.

1817-1818 First Seminole War.

1821 The United States acquires Florida from Spain as part of a deal to cancel $5 million in debts owed by the Spanish. Florida becomes a territory of the United States.


13 posted on 02/26/2008 1:19:28 PM PST by Greg F (Do you want a guy named Hussein to fix your soul? Michelle Obama thinks you do.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Yes, TGunner,We’re much better off living under guidelines, mandates, and the planned tyranny of the United Nations, instead of this sovereign nation stuff./sarc.


14 posted on 02/26/2008 1:23:35 PM PST by gitmogrunt (Maybe blind in one eye, and half your brain tied behind your back?)
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To: NoLibZone
"should it be returned"

Do you seriously believe that it will not be?

15 posted on 02/26/2008 1:23:55 PM PST by isrul
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"things change"

Maybe come full circle with FL becoming "spanish" again in the not too distant future..

16 posted on 02/26/2008 1:26:19 PM PST by isrul
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To: Tailgunner Joe

If Noel Malcolm is a historian so is David Irving. This guy is a paid anti-Serb propagandist.


17 posted on 02/26/2008 1:32:31 PM PST by Witch-king of Angmar
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I think the problem is more complicated than a simple recounting of who controlled what & when. Kosovo is a symbol to the Serbs in the way that Valley Forge is to us, or the Alamo was to Texas. It’s kinda hard to yield territory that is all rolled-up with the narrative of your national identity.


18 posted on 02/26/2008 1:33:27 PM PST by Tallguy (Tagline is offline till something better comes along...)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Slavs, from whom present-day Serbians descended, showed up in the Balkans, including what is now known as Bosnia, Montenegro, and Kosovo, at the end of the 4th century A.D. - not the 7th. By the end of the 12th century, Kosovo was the cultural and administrative center of the Nemanjic dynasty which ruled the Serbian “state.”
19 posted on 02/26/2008 1:45:11 PM PST by riverdawg
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Article was written by an Islamofacist apologist. The "historian" admits that Kosovo was completely Serbian for 250 years, but then somehow found the lunacy to assert that because the Muslims managed to defeat the Serbs and wrest parts of Kosovo from them that their conquest means that Kosovo is legitimately a Muslim state. The truth is that the Serbs never stopped their fight to regain their land, and in 1912 they finally conquered the Ottomans and retook Kosovo.

All one needs to do to see that Kosovo is Serbian terrirtory is look at the names of the Kosovo streets, parks and commons. Most of them are Serbian names. And even though the devil worshipping Muslims have burned down many ancient Christian Churches in Kosovo, many of these ancient Churches still remain. The name "Kosovo" itself means 'field of the blackbirds', the site where a battle between Christian Serbs and Islamofacists took place in 1389. Kosovo was a strategically important trade crossroads; and the Islamofacists defeated the Serbs in this battle, but decided to retreat after their victory, leaving the Serbs in partial control of Kosovo.

20 posted on 02/26/2008 1:58:44 PM PST by houstonman58 ("When the Son of Man returns, will there be any faith left on earth, think ye"?)
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To: NoLibZone

Too late.


21 posted on 02/26/2008 2:23:45 PM PST by tbw2 (Science fiction with real science - "Humanity's Edge" - on amazon.com)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Aztlan won’t be American forever, thanks to the idiotic precedent set in the Kosovo land theft.


22 posted on 02/26/2008 2:25:15 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: riverdawg; Tailgunner Joe

The Sword of Truth will never bite on the mind of Tailgunner Joe.


23 posted on 02/26/2008 2:25:45 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (And close the damned borders!)
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To: Witch-king of Angmar
This guy is a paid anti-Serb propagandist.

That will make Dhimmigunner Joe angry since he's doing it for free.

24 posted on 02/26/2008 2:27:23 PM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: RightWhale

Gavrilo Princip, the guy who shot the Archduke, was a Bosnian Serb. He was caught at the scene. I think one of the co-conspirators in the plot was a Bosnian Muslim.


25 posted on 02/26/2008 2:35:34 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Greg F
250 years. So only as Serbian as say . . . all of the states of the United States are American.

But that was more than 500 years ago

The Vice-Royality of New Spain was more recent and lasted longer.

Interesting. If present Serbia can claim successor state rights to Kosovo, then Mexico has the same claim to the Southwest USA (even more, since Spain actually recognised Mexico as the successor state.)


26 posted on 02/26/2008 2:39:55 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Never say yer sorry, mister. It's a sign of weakness)
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To: Oztrich Boy

Actually, Spain didn’t recognize Mexico at all, let alone as its successor state, until 3 years AFTER the Texas Revolution.
If the Texas Revolution was illegal, so was Mexico’s revolution from Spain.


27 posted on 02/26/2008 2:50:05 PM PST by CivilWarguy (CivilWarGuy)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Well I guess anyone who likes can succeed from anyone now and the US can’t complain. Southwest US will join Mexico. Southeast US will succeed and form the Confederacy. Hawaii and Alaska can go off on their own. It’s going to be an interesting new world.


28 posted on 02/26/2008 3:03:37 PM PST by monday
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To: Tailgunner Joe

America was “Indian” for a long time also. Yes, things do change.


29 posted on 02/26/2008 3:09:52 PM PST by fish hawk (The religion of Darwinism = Monkey Intellect)
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To: CivilWarguy

Treaty of Cordoba 1821


30 posted on 02/26/2008 3:14:25 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Never say yer sorry, mister. It's a sign of weakness)
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To: fish hawk
And before that it belonged to the birds and the bees.

Humans out now!

31 posted on 02/26/2008 3:46:32 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
During the 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th centuries Kosovo, like Serbia, like most of Eastern, Central, Western and Northern Europe was still in the grip of "The Dark Ages".

Europe's great Renaissance didn't get going until the 13th century and probably didn't hit Serbia in full force until the 19th century.

So, yes, there is direct continuity and contact with Kosovo between 7th century and 13th century Serbia.

It was, to put it mildly, nasty all the way back.

32 posted on 02/26/2008 7:07:58 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: NoLibZone

Returned to whom? To Mexico, or to Spain?


33 posted on 02/26/2008 7:08:43 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: gitmogrunt

California was Russian territory. That other stuff in the Souf’ really wasn’t California. Full of Franciscans wearing Chinese robes you know ~ now that’s not Mexico!


34 posted on 02/26/2008 7:10:29 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: gitmogrunt

California was Russian territory. That other stuff in the Souf’ really wasn’t California. Full of Franciscans wearing Chinese robes you know ~ now that’s not Mexico!


35 posted on 02/26/2008 7:10:50 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Tailgunner Joe
You're reading it wrong. Patriotic Texicans (native people of Spanish descent as well as the illegal aliens then swarming over the place, and the legal immigrants) rose up and led a revolution against the evil dictator Santa Anna.

Much of central and Souvrn' Mexico followed.

The Texicans prevailed over Santa Anna's army. The remainder of the country failed to overthrow him and ended up languishing under Santa Anna's misrule off and on until 1876.

Think of the situation as a "failed revolution" where only some of the rebels against the dictator prevailed.

If the Texicans had received more American support in this effort there is no doubt all of Mexico would have been acquired by the United States in the 1800s.

36 posted on 02/26/2008 7:16:53 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Tailgunner Joe
The Euroweenies will always take the easy way out - appeasement - and then justify their actions with fine phrases.
37 posted on 02/26/2008 7:17:18 PM PST by Ciexyz
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To: Greg F
The 14th British colony was known as Canada! It was acquired sometime around 1754.

That's the 14th colony to which Jefferson referred.

Only part of that colony was acquired by the United States, and that didn't happen until the independent nation state of Virginia ceded its Western landclaims to them as part of the deal underlying the creation of the United States under the Articles of Confederation.

38 posted on 02/26/2008 7:24:16 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Tailgunner Joe
I'm listening to Osamabama telling us that if we recognize Kosovo we have an obligation to make sure it's not invaded.

That's the third country Obamasama has proposed making war against ~ Serbia! He wants to attack Serbia, and that's on top of Sudan, and the bombing of Pakistan.

This guy is one of the most bloodthirsty, aggressive imperialists we've ever had ~ since President Tyler ~ he promised to invade Mexico, take various provinces, and balance the budget.

39 posted on 02/26/2008 7:27:08 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: riverdawg
Actually, the Romans called the inhabitants of the Dalmatian coast "slavs". That's their word for "slaves" because that's what the Romans did ~ get slaves from FYR.

Some time in the 8th century BCE you would have had Romans going to Dalmatia to get cheap bedwarmers and field hands and calling them "slav".

That's about 1200 years earlier than your 4th century reference. I think what you are doing is confounding the arrival of slavs in the Eastern Empire in roughly the 6th century AD with the earlier experience Romans and Greeks had had with "slavs" in earlier centuries further West and North.

40 posted on 02/26/2008 7:32:31 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: houstonman58
There is a body of thought in Islam that any territory that was part of their Dar al Islam is rightfully part of it for all eternity.

The consequence is there are hundreds of millions of Moslems who want the Balkans, including Greece, returned to them. They also want Sardinia, Sicily, Malta, Spain and parts of France "returned".

Obviously their belief is in error.

41 posted on 02/26/2008 7:35:14 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Oztrich Boy

Successor only of what they’d claimed. Spain had ceded control of almost everything East of the Mississippi to England earlier.


42 posted on 02/26/2008 7:37:41 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

“There is a body of thought in Islam that any territory that was part of their Dar al Islam is rightfully part of it for all eternity.

The consequence is there are hundreds of millions of Moslems who want the Balkans, including Greece, returned to them. They also want Sardinia, Sicily, Malta, Spain and parts of France “returned”.

“Obviously their belief is in error.”

How so? In my book, if you’re 1/1 you’re batting 1.000


43 posted on 02/26/2008 8:25:27 PM PST by Serb29 ("Fear can only prevail when victims are ignorant of the facts ". - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: muawiyah

That’s interesting. I’ve always thought of the 13 colonies, never really thought about the fact that there were colonies that did not join the revolution.


44 posted on 02/27/2008 5:46:26 AM PST by Greg F (Do you want a guy named Hussein to fix your soul? Michelle Obama thinks you do.)
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To: Greg F
Yup ~ England set up the Crown colony system a hundred years before the War for Independence. It was quite a popular and successful way to organize and manage a new "community".

The American Revolutionaries had 14 colonies in mind for a new "nation". There were dozens though, many of them quite small.

Quebec, the 14th colony, overlapped traditional Virginia land claims (which, for the most part had never been "exercised" by Virginia ~ still, the Intendent of Canada under the French (pre 1754) had opened up what we call Michigan and established a small village called Quebec ~ Souvrn' Quebec (actually the Ohio Valley) went with the United States. Northern Quebec went with Canada.

45 posted on 02/27/2008 5:51:35 AM PST by muawiyah
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

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