Posted on 02/28/2008 7:36:37 AM PST by Constitutionalist1958
At about 9:30 a.m. agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms attempt to execute arrest and search warrants against David KORESH and the Branch Davidian compound. Gunfire erupts. Four ATF agents are killed and 16 are wounded. An undetermined number of Davidians are killed and injured. Within a few hours, the FBI becomes the lead agency for resolving the standoff. Jeff JAMAR is named the on-site commander. By the afternoon, advance units of the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) arrive, and telephone conversations are under way between KORESH, Steve SCHNEIDER, and Wayne MARTIN on one side and the ATF's Jim CAVANAUGH and Waco Police Lt. Larry LYNCH on the other. KORESH discloses that he has been wounded in the hip and left wrist. KORESH is allowed to broadcast his religious teachings on Dallas radio KRLD and does a CNN telephone interview. Michael SCHROEDER, a Branch Davidian, is killed while he tries to return to the main building. Texas Rangers begin an investigation but are barred by the FBI from continuing. At about 5:30 p.m., JAMAR arrives at Waco and chooses Byron SAGE of the FBI as chief negotiator. President CLINTON follows events closely throughout the day.
The Branch Davidians were in fact a long established sect of Seventh Day Adventists. The media rarely ever mentions this & often promotes the erroneous notion that it was the cult of David Koresh whose real name was Vernon Howell another thing often suppressed in the media outlets.
A sad and shameful day in our history.
The initial warrant attempt was performed by less than 20 officers.
“The initial warrant attempt was performed by less than 20 officers.”
and could have been issued in town, any day of the week, by one.
I seem to recall some evidence that Hillary was involved in the decision to go in. And that Wesley Clark was the onsite commander where US military vehicles and personnel were used in fighting against American citizens.
I remember cheering as those fat ATF bastards, huffing and puffing, ran down the road in retreat.
I understand that David Koresh was often seen at area gun shows - if the Feds wanted him, he would have been very easy to arrest. This was all about showing America just how tough Bill & Hill & Janet are against their country’s own citizens - we never saw that much lethal force unleashed on anyone else except Serbia. Those tanks were from a local military base run by Weasley Clark, as I recall. If Clinton deserved to be impeached, this would top my list as a reason why. Just goes to show how gutless, toothless the Repubs in Washington really are.
Let's see...they were supposed to have had several machine guns and .50 caliber weapons, and they were supposed to have started shooting (so says the government), yet only 4 BATF agents died (probably all from "friendly fire").
The government was brutal and criminal in its actions here, and when it was obvious that the Branch Davidians wouldn't come out, burning the place down became a good option for it - no living witnesses from inside, no books coming out in future years, and no forensic evidence to pin the blame on the government.
Oh, yeah, I forgot...everything's OK because Janet Reno (Bull Dyke, FL) accepted the blame - AND DIDN'T EVEN HAVE THE DECENCY TO RESIGN!
Warning to all FReepers: if we allow a Dem to win this November, you'll see more like this incident. McCain sucks, and I thoroughly despise him...but I love my country more than I despise him.
He went into town every week to go shopping. He went jogging nearly every day. There was NO need to "serve a warrant" like this. It was purely for show, and they didn't give a damn how many innocents died.
Regardless of the method or outcome it is sad you cheered for this.
Had the ATF really wanted to arrest Koresh instead of staging a show for the media they would’ve arrested Koresh when he went jogging that morning approximately one hour prior to the assault. Oh, and they would not have needed to set up a media center prior to the assault. This was murder, pure and simple.
Up front I am not condoning anything that happened that day.
IF the SCOTUS has a bad day and rules against the 2nd amendment in the future troops might actually be used to disarm the public. There are people I talk to that are adamant that if worse comes to worse and a secession or revolt occurs over an attempt to disarm the populus the use of the military is warranted to keep the union intact.
So which side are you on then? What is the difference in what that would be and what happened there? If arms are outlawed it would be the same scenario.
The losers here are the front-line troops and LEO’s that have no choice but to follow orders and the innocent victims that are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In this case the ATF were no more than arrogant thugs. I may not agree with cheering their demise, but I can understand why someone might. Someone like Randy Weaver, IMHO, would have reason to cheer were such incidental justice finally delivered to his wife’s murderer, Lon Horiuchi.
In the case of warrant execution on this scale at most 2-4 people are responsible, the case officer and his supervisors up the chain and more so the supervisors who have to approve all action. Any officer on site that was called to assist in the service are not culpable for the overall event only their personal behavior within the law. They all answer to bosses just like you do every day. Yes, they have the choice of not participating when called, but they might as well look for a new job if they choose so. A lot of people want to blanket criticize all officers there but I honestly doubt anyone here put in that same scenario would have to moxy to say I do no I do not want to go.
The fault lies solely with admin and supervisors who wanted the high profile service versus the in town pick up and taking Koresh in custody to the compound to confiscate evidence.
May we remember that day in Waco and never forget what the Clintons are capable of. Prayers for the living and loved ones of the dead.
The four were all former Arkansas State Police and Clinton bodyguards
Law Enforcement Officers who break the law and commit capital crimes against otherwise peaceful and law abiding citizens are merely thugs with badges. I'll not mourn them. What I expect, and demand, is that REAL law enforcement officers and our elected officials stand up and demand that the law breakers face justice. Instead, the law breakers at Waco all got away scot free.
Congressman Bono later died in a skiing accident. Clinton was still the president, reno was still the AG and Congressman Bono was dead.
You have a DUTY to not follow illegal orders.
You have a DUTY to not follow illegal orders.
The murder of Americans in the church in Waco
is and was a watershed in American history.That the Federal Government can burn down a church
with the members inside and murder all who disagree
with the Clintons is to be remembered forever.it has happened before but only in a Communist country.
As I recall, those four agents were former Arkansas State Troopers assigned to guard...Gov. Bill Clinton...before he became President. Things that make you hmmmmm.
Sort of like how Uriah the Hittite died because of David’s instructions to his field general.
Only if you are given facts and know those order to be illegal.
Raids of this size are preempted with a meeting of the teams where they are given only the information that they need to execute the warrant like the property layout, possible weapons, other dangers, and who will be there.
After the warrant the raid team usually leaves the site.
The entire operation was a "showtime" assault in front of the media, to intimidate US citizens that attempted to exercise their 2A rights.
It was planned and premeditated with the intention to use lethal force for the purpose of intimidation.
Those that participated were the worst of traitors to the Constitution and American citizenry as well as serial murderers and cowards to boot.
They were, however, loyal to the US government.
>Congressman Bono later died in a skiing accident.<
I have never believed his death was strictly accidental.
Sad day.
The Clintons...
Fired all 93 US attorneys to appoint their ilk to cover their crimes.
Janet Nero...sending troops to collect firearm tax stamps...burning children alive...kidnapping children to send back to communist thugs.
yep...sadly convinced that we could see these types of events again in the near future.
The tyrants are on the horizon and greedy for control.
Yes they are.
How many years do you have/had in the shoes of LEO? Just curious where you’re knowledge base comes from. I will agree that Reno, Clinton, and some of the officers on scene are culpable but to condemn all LEO’s everywhere is parallel to condemning all Enron employees for what a handful did.
Notice that between Waco and Ruby Ridge, the feds didn’t try anything like that again for another 15 years.
Lousy conspiracy point. Video plainly shows one agent being terminated by someone inside.
bttt
Yes they were wrong.
I guess what I am saying is qualify your condemnations with ATF and FBI supervisors should be prosecuted. Absolutes are a sign of uninformed emotions.
So by your argument the front-line soldier who disagrees with our action in Iraq has the right to not go if assigned?
Thanks for the reminder.
For those in this forum who are would like a refresher, FR did quite some research into this ‘incident’. The notes can be found at:
http://www.alamo-girl.com/waco.htm.
the URL makes my monitor go blurry.
“Lousy conspiracy point. Video plainly shows one agent being terminated by someone inside.”
Was the assassin using BATF ammo? (special vest-piercing 9mm)?
It's interesting how you try to twist other's statements to your own ends.
Front line soldiers in Iraq are NOT LEO's and Iraqis are NOT American Citizens in American homes and churches. Need I continue my answer?
You did the same with Peter Finn.
Peter Finn said: In this case the ATF were no more than arrogant thugs.
You replied: but to condemn all LEO’s everywhere is parallel to condemning all Enron employees for what a handful did.
That's NOT what he said. Get it right.
Lastly, as far as responsibility goes, Nuremberg proves "I vas onkly followink orders" get you hung, if your on the losing side.
Apologist.
Uriah died by his own choice. He wanted to be the martyred hero. Uriah was so disinterested in life outside of “heroic” warfare that he couldn’t even go to his wife, one of the most beautiful women who has ever lived. Save us all from such deadly heroism! And so King David did by giving to Uriah the kind of opportunity Uriah was happiest with. IMO.
Then be prepared to get sad. I cheered as well. "Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a convenient store, not a government agency" (from one of the T-shirts I bought for all four of my sons)
These overbearing nazi thugs should not be so gung ho to attack American citizens (and it truly was an attack)
Quite a bit MORE can be found by googling *freerepublic waco*. I just did and now have to find my tissues.(and a beer to calm my nerves down)
When I saw the news footage of the ATF retreating slowly, in the open, with their hands up, with no fire coming from the Davidians, I knew that the Government was lying. Nothing has come out to change my opinion.
Michael Frazier
Funny, I don’t remember Hillary’s involvement in Waco being brought up in her Texas deabtes with Obama...
They had been working Slick Willie's security detail while he was a candidate...I'll bet they knew a LOT...
One of the BATF agents who entered the building DID survive. That was Agent Buford, I believe, THE CHIEF OF THE BATF OFFICE IN LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS, at the time.
Odd, isn't it, that 4 BATF agents would let Branch Davidian's get so close as to shoot them in the neck at close range??
But if Agent Buford approached them at close range, they'd think nothing of it...if you catch my drift...
And to this very day...
the METAL front door with all the bullet holes in it...the one that prove once & for all just WHO fired first...
HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND!!!
By the way, when the BATF squad arrived at the complex, THEY DID NOT HAVE THE WARRANT WITH THEM...they had forgotten & left it back at the office...
I read somewhere Koresh had voted for Clinton. Quite irony.
Thank you so very much for remembering the Downside Legacy!
Me either.
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