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Ed Koch Still Pulls No Punches: New Book Includes Surprising Revelation About James Baker
Jewish Press ^ | February 27, 2008 | Rafael Medoff

Posted on 02/29/2008 5:37:29 AM PST by SJackson

Although Ed Koch has not held elected office for nearly two decades, the feisty former mayor of New York City remains a powerful force in American politics and in the American Jewish community. Reporters still ask for his comments on the latest news developments, and candidates for office still seek his endorsement.

Now Koch has a new book out – and it contains a stunning revelation that may ignite a second round of his now-famous clash with James Baker.

Round One of Koch vs. Baker exploded across headlines around the world in March 1992, when Koch revealed, in his New York Post column, that then-Secretary of State Baker had made an obscene remark about American Jews.

Koch reported that during a White House meeting, one participant mentioned something to Baker about growing Jewish concern over his unfriendliness toward Israel. According to Koch, Baker replied: "[Expletive] ‘em. They [the Jews] didn’t vote for us."

Baker’s ugly statement had been quoted to Koch by someone who was present at the meeting. Not surprisingly, Koch could not divulge the identity of his source. That put him at a considerable disadvantage when Baker vehemently denied the allegation and State Department spokeswoman Margaret Tutwiler called Koch’s expose "garbage."

But now Koch is setting them straight.

In his new book, The Koch Papers: My Fight Against Anti-Semitism, on which he and I collaborated, Koch reveals for the first time the name of his source: Jack Kemp, who at the time was serving as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development.

Not only was Secretary Kemp an unimpeachable source, but Baker’s statement was consistent with his record concerning Jews and Israel, reaching all the way back to his 1952 senior thesis at Princeton University. In his thesis, young Baker defended the 1940’s anti-Zionist policies of British Foreign Secretary Ernest Bevin.

In a foreshadowing of his 1992 attack on American Jewish voters, Baker at Princeton lambasted "the irrational and extreme behavior of American Zionists [in the 1940’s]" and dismissed U.S. support for Jewish statehood in 1947 as nothing more than a case of "the vote-conscious American Government back[ing] its Zionists."

In more recent years, Baker reportedly referred to pro-Israel members of Congress as "the little Knesset," according to the Los Angeles Times. The late David Bar-Illan, who at the time was one of the editors of the Jerusalem Post, reported in Maariv in 1992 that Baker once remarked, "Jews remember the Holocaust, but they forget insults as soon as they smell cash."

Koch, for one, has not forgotten either Baker’s insults or his policies. The Koch Papers reminds us that U.S. Mideast policy when Baker was secretary of state was consistently unfriendly to Israel, from pressuring the Jewish state to refrain from defending itself against Iraqi missile attacks to withholding U.S. loan guarantees for the absorption of Soviet Jewish immigrants.

A fresh reminder of the Baker days was provided just last month, when Japan’s largest newspaper, Yomiuri Shimbun, revealed that in 1991, when Baker was secretary of state, Israel was preparing to strike at a North Korean ship smuggling Scud missiles to Syria "but canceled it at the eleventh hour under U.S. pressure." One wonders how Baker would have responded if he were secretary of state during Israel’s recent strike on an apparent Syrian nuclear facility developed with North Korea.

In The Koch Papers, which will be published this week by Palgrave MacMillan, Mayor Koch and I bring together many of his previously unpublished memoranda and speeches on anti-Semitism, the Holocaust, and Israel, as well as some of his most powerful columns from the New York Post and other periodicals. The book also features a number of articles on which he and I have collaborated in recent years, including a lengthy essay on anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism that we wrote exclusively for this volume.

The Baker-Kemp revelation is perhaps the book’s most explosive element, in view of media reports that Baker could be a candidate for a senior position in a future administration. In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Haaretz in 2006, Senator John McCain said his administration would send "the smartest guy I know" to deal with the Arab-Israeli negotiations – "Brent Scowcroft, or Jim Baker though I know that you in Israel don’t like Baker."

Can Baker’s hopes for a new government post survive Koch’s revelation about the 1992 remark? That remains to be seen.

In the meantime, Baker is not the only Koch nemesis who could end up in a position to influence U.S. policy toward Israel. Also in the running, it appears, is Zbigniew Brzezinski, who served as President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser. Years before Baker’s hostile remark about American Jews, Brzezinski, then an adviser to candidate Carter, was reported (by Marvin Kalb) to have said to an Israeli official, "How will you like the idea of working with a new president who owes nothing to the Jews?"

In March 1980, Koch caused a major controversy when he criticized Brzezinski and three other top Carter Mideast advisers as a "Gang of Four" who were trying to turn the U.S. against Israel. (The reference was to a group of Chinese leaders who had been pushed out of power by their rivals.)

During his years in the Carter administration, Brzezinski did indeed push for a tilt against Israel, as he acknowledged later in his memoirs of that period. More recently, he and several colleagues issued a statement urging the U.S. and its allies to engage in "a genuine dialogue" with Hamas. Brzezinski has endorsed Senator Barack Obama for president and reportedly is part of Obama’s circle of foreign policy advisers.

The Koch Papers had its origins in two important appointments that Koch received in recent years. In 2004, he was selected by the president to lead the U.S. government delegation to the international conference on anti-Semitism held in Berlin. The following year, he was appointed to the United States Holocaust Memorial Council, which oversees the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum.

Given Koch’s new prominence as a spokesman on issues related to anti-Semitism and the Holocaust, it seemed the time had come to prepare a volume showcasing the many important statements he has made on these subjects over the years.

One of the most fascinating aspects of The Koch Papers is the inclusion of never-before-seen private correspondence between Koch and prominent public figures about anti-Semitism, from Woody Allen to African-American scholar Henry Louis Gates.

The correspondence with Allen revolves around Koch’s 2002 call for a boycott of France in response to rising French anti-Semitism. Allen strongly opposed a boycott.

"I happen to be one of Mr. Allen’s fans, and I had the honor and pleasure of making a cameo appearance in his film ‘Manhattan Stories’ when I was mayor," Koch noted. "I also run into him on occasion because our taste in restaurants is apparently rather similar." But Koch pulled no punches in telling Allen that his statements defending France and opposing a boycott "have given the French people and their government undeserved cover for their tolerance of anti-Semitic behavior and shamefully inadequate response to it."

Readers will be surprised to discover on which points Allen refused to yield, and on which ones he backed down.

The exchanges with Woody Allen are particularly interesting in light of another segment of the book: the recent exchange that Mayor Koch and I had with the French ambassador to the United States after the ambassador claimed, erroneously, that anti-Semitic incidents in France had decreased by 47% in the past year.

Koch’s straightforward style has a way of getting others to speak up, and in this book we present, for the first time in print, an intriguing discussion that he ignited in 2004-2005 about how to respond to anti-Semitism on campuses.

Focusing on the controversy over a cartoon in a Rutgers University newspaper mocking the Holocaust, Mayor Koch initiated correspondence with university presidents, scholars and free speech specialists about whether Rutgers was correct that it was powerless to respond. Among those weighing in on the controversy: Rutgers president Richard McCormick; Princeton president Shirley Tilghman; the then-president of Harvard, Lawrence Summers; constitutional expert Frederick Schwarz; and former U.S. senator Bob Kerrey.

Koch’s lifetime of confronting anti-Semitism becomes more relevant every time one glances at the day’s news. From the recent poll showing almost one-third of Americans think Jews are disloyal, to the widespread anti-Semitism in the Arab media and schoolbooks, anti-Semitism is on the rise throughout the world and there is no respite in sight.

Just last week, new figures released by British Jewish leaders revealed that anti-Semitic violence in England reached a record level in 2007, with 114 assaults. That figure is the highest since the tracking of such attacks began in 1984.

Meanwhile, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports that the wearing of baseball caps has become widespread among Orthodox Jewish men in France who fear that wearing a yarmulke will invite anti-Semitic attacks. Jewish women, too, "have been hiding signs of their Jewishness," according to the report. "Many tuck away the Stars of David or Sephardic hamsa ornaments they wear around their necks before going out." The environment of fear has prompted many Jewish parents to pull their children out of public schools, and has encouraged others to emigrate to Israel. The number of French Jews moving to Israel last year, 2,717, is triple the number who went in 2000.

Anti-Semitism here in the United States, and in Ed Koch’s beloved Big Apple, is naturally a significant topic of discussion in The Koch Papers. Subjects such as anti-Semitism in the guise of hostility to Israel, celebrity anti-Semitism, and the recent attacks on the "Israel lobby" receive their due. Appropriate attention is also devoted to Koch’s well-known clashes with African-American leaders who have made anti-Jewish remarks, such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Yet at the same time, Koch searches for common ground between the Jewish and African-American communities, in an important and hopeful essay, written expressly for this volume, titled "Black-Jewish Relations: Looking Ahead."

One section of the book focuses on the most horrific manifestation of anti-Semitism in history, the Holocaust. Koch’s perspective, particularly with regard to how the Allies responded to the Nazi genocide, pulls no punches. In an interview included in the book, conducted just before international leaders gathered at Auschwitz to commemorate the sixtieth anniversary of the camp’s liberation, Koch remarked:

"The death of millions of Jews has to weigh on the consciences of the many nations that could have made a difference by giving refuge to the Jews. It would be a small atonement, but the world leaders who attend the Auschwitz ceremony should get down on their knees and ask God to forgive them for how their countries acted during the Holocaust."

Elsewhere in the interview, Koch strongly criticized President Franklin Roosevelt for barring America’s doors to Jewish refugees and refusing to bomb the death camps.

Koch had sharp words for the Holocaust-era American Jewish leadership, too:

"Jewish leaders did not do enough. Did they get arrested? Maybe they would have, if some other group was being persecuted. Some of them thought [that] the less they said, the better – or that they shouldn’t say as much as they would like, because it would increase anti-Semitism. They should have stormed the gates of the White House to demand action. But they were afraid of anti-Semitism – afraid they would ‘make things worse.’ Only a few people spoke out, like Ben Hecht, and of course Henry Morgenthau, the secretary of the treasury, whom we revere for his role in convincing Roosevelt finally to create the War Refugee Board, which saved some Jewish lives late in the war."

As readers will discover, The Koch Papers also contains two unexpected treats. One is a foreword by Pete Hamill which is really an essay itself, and a fascinating one at that. Hamill, the outspoken Irish-American newspaperman, best-selling novelist, and former editor-in-chief of the New York Post and New York Daily News, eloquently recalls the contrast between his neighborhood’s joy at the end of World War II and the gruesome scenes of the liberated Nazi death camps which he, as a child, watched on newsreels in the local RKO movie house.

"When I was about eight, I was convinced that if God could talk to us, He would sound like President Roosevelt," Hamill writes. "But the footage from Buchenwald made me think other things, none of them spoken, all of them creating doubts that would last a lifetime. Later I would know that my unspoken questions were shared by millions of others. Where was Roosevelt?"

In this book, Hamill notes, "Koch remembers his own version of what I saw in the RKO Prospect: those first films from Buchenwald and Auschwitz. There was a major difference. I saw them as a Catholic school boy. Ed Koch saw them through the eyes of a tough proud Jew, the knowing eyes of a New Yorker, the eyes of an infantryman at whom bullets had been fired with intent to kill. And he, too, was shocked.… In these pieces Koch is not speaking as a former Mayor of New York. He speaks, over and over again, as a Jew, and as a rememberer.… I always saw him then (and now) as the very best kind of American: a free man, who says what he believes should be said, directly, without fear. He is also, in this time of pervasive national amnesia, an American with memory."

The Koch Papers also includes a powerful statement from a Catholic at the opposite end of the political spectrum. A blurb from conservative icon William F. Buckley, Jr. praises Koch’s "extraordinary determination," his "obvious and fine instincts," and his "commitment to fighting the awful, sinful practice of anti-Semitism."

Anti-Semitism is one of the few issues on which Pete Hamill and William Buckley will agree, and The Koch Papers may be the only book that will ever bear endorsements from both of them. Chalk up another first for Ed Koch!


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americanjews; antisemitism; bookreview; bush41; edkoch; jimbaker; koch; nyc
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1 posted on 02/29/2008 5:37:33 AM PST by SJackson
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]

----------------------------

2 posted on 02/29/2008 5:38:31 AM PST by SJackson (If 45 million children had lived, they'd be defending America, filling jobs, paying SS-Z. Miller)
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To: SJackson
Koch, along with Zell Miller, Sam Nunn and a few others, prove that not ALL Democrats are insane.

Still, it's the safe assumption.

3 posted on 02/29/2008 5:42:23 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: SJackson

That “ugly statement” was 100% true.

The Jewish vote is a democrat constituency.

Perhaps Baker should have phrased it more diplomatically?
“Regardless of our course of action, the Jewish vote will go to whoever is running as a democrat and whatever we accomplish will be undone...”

There, is that better?


4 posted on 02/29/2008 5:42:49 AM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: SJackson

If Mccain wants the anti-Semitic James Baker (not the first I heard Baker was a Jew hater) in his administration....you can bet McCain will be weak dealing vs Islamic Terror

Koch may be a liberal but he has been very supportive on the War on Terror


5 posted on 02/29/2008 5:47:08 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Anyone Notice....But It Is Only The Low-Rated Talk Radio Hosts That Support McCain)
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To: SJackson
You think Koch will endorse Obama with his antisemitism?
6 posted on 02/29/2008 5:49:55 AM PST by Mr. Brightside ( Ronald Reagan Would Back McCain - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1970504/posts)
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To: SJackson

This is ethnic politics, not anti-Semitism.

You can bet that Baker would have given them what they wanted, if they had voted Republican.


7 posted on 02/29/2008 5:50:03 AM PST by proxy_user
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To: SJackson

hmmmm...


8 posted on 02/29/2008 5:52:20 AM PST by dennisw (Never bet on a false prophet! <<<||>>> Never bet on Islam!)
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To: SJackson

He did, however, serve as the mayor's link to the Caped Crusader.

9 posted on 02/29/2008 5:53:53 AM PST by Dilbert56 (Harry Reid, D-Nev.: "We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war.")
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To: silverleaf
Perhaps Baker should have phrased it more diplomatically? “Regardless of our course of action, the Jewish vote will go to whoever is running as a democrat and whatever we accomplish will be undone...”

A situation caused to a large extend by Republican bigots like Baker.

Reagan got 39% of the Jewish vote in 1980.

31% in 1984

Bush I got 35% in 1988.

Secretary of State Baker, a bigot, tells Jews like me who voted for Bush to go FU*K ourselves. Classy from a Republican official.

Surprise, surprise, Bush I drops from 35% in 1988 to 11% in 1992, and though I wasn't one of them I can't blame any Jew for voting for Clinton over a President who tolerates bigotry.

And no, there's been no recovery, and yes, Republicans defend Bakers bigotry.

Let me also say that for an official to base American foreign policy on the voting habits of a domestic minority should be a disqualification from office. Shame on Bush I for never addressing this.

10 posted on 02/29/2008 5:54:11 AM PST by SJackson (If 45 million children had lived, they'd be defending America, filling jobs, paying SS-Z. Miller)
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To: silverleaf
The President of the United States' job is not to trade favors for votes.

The President's job is to do the right thing.

James Baker was apparently more interested in returning favors and using the power of of the US government for if-you-scratch-my-back-I'll-scratch-yours deals.

Baker is beneath contempt and did not deserve to serve in the Reagan administration.

11 posted on 02/29/2008 5:54:24 AM PST by wideawake (Why is it that those who call themselves Constitutionalists know the least about the Constitution?)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Perhaps Baker should have phrased it more diplomatically? “Regardless of our course of action, the Jewish vote will go to whoever is running as a democrat and whatever we accomplish will be undone...”

Nor do they still hold office.

12 posted on 02/29/2008 5:55:04 AM PST by SJackson (If 45 million children had lived, they'd be defending America, filling jobs, paying SS-Z. Miller)
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To: SJackson

If Baker was Jesse Jacskon, Calypso Louis Farrakhan, Carol Moseley Braun, Cynthia McKinney or Al Sharpton nothing would have been made of the comments.

Oh right.

Didn’t they say similar things and then not taken to task?


13 posted on 02/29/2008 5:56:27 AM PST by PurpleMan
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To: SJackson; All
Hillary FJB
14 posted on 02/29/2008 5:57:07 AM PST by musicman
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: SJackson

And shame on Bush II for never addressing Baker’s perfidy on the Iraq Study Commission.


16 posted on 02/29/2008 5:57:28 AM PST by exit82 (People get the government they deserve. And they are about to get it--in spades.)
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To: PurpleMan
If Baker was Jesse Jacskon, Calypso Louis Farrakhan, Carol Moseley Braun, Cynthia McKinney or Al Sharpton nothing would have been made of the comments.

I aggree with your equivalency, but I've seen criticism from all of them, both from the right and the left. Including Koch. You must not be looking.

Please ping me when any are nominated to cabinet positions.

17 posted on 02/29/2008 5:58:57 AM PST by SJackson (If 45 million children had lived, they'd be defending America, filling jobs, paying SS-Z. Miller)
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To: SJackson
WHY did Jack Kemp go to Koch and tell him this?? What was in it for Kemp? Sounds kind of school boyish tattle tale.

Ed Koch and other Jews are HURT by words like these, forget what actions are taken because the Democrats actions are usually AWFUL against the Jews, but they say NICE WORDS.....so by Kemp telling this to ed, he has caused a bigger rift and more hurt feelings. Weird.

18 posted on 02/29/2008 6:02:07 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior

“Also in the running, it appears, is Zbigniew Brzezinski, who served as President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser. Years before Baker’s hostile remark about American Jews, Brzezinski, then an adviser to candidate Carter, was reported (by Marvin Kalb) to have said to an Israeli official, “How will you like the idea of working with a new president who owes nothing to the Jews?”

In March 1980, Koch caused a major controversy when he criticized Brzezinski and three other top Carter Mideast advisers as a “Gang of Four” who were trying to turn the U.S. against Israel. (The reference was to a group of Chinese leaders who had been pushed out of power by their rivals.)

“During his years in the Carter administration, Brzezinski did indeed push for a tilt against Israel, as he acknowledged later in his memoirs of that period. More recently, he and several colleagues issued a statement urging the U.S. and its allies to engage in “a genuine dialogue” with Hamas. Brzezinski has endorsed Senator Barack Obama for president and reportedly is part of Obama’s circle of foreign policy advisers.”

Obama would definately ‘CHANGE’ our foreign policy! Brzezinski has actively undermined our efforts in the WOT!


19 posted on 02/29/2008 6:02:22 AM PST by penelopesire ("The only CHANGE you will get with the Democrats is the CHANGE left in your pocket")
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To: SJackson

Isn’t Zbigniew Brzezinski currently advising Barak Hussein Obama?


20 posted on 02/29/2008 6:04:52 AM PST by Obadiah
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To: PurpleMan
Jessie Jackson was just greeting (Reagan AG) Ed Meese when he said, "Hi Meese".

(He was not, NOT referring to Jews as "hymies" or to New York as "Hymietown".)

21 posted on 02/29/2008 6:06:18 AM PST by sportutegrl
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To: Ann Archy
WHY did Jack Kemp go to Koch and tell him this?? What was in it for Kemp? Sounds kind of school boyish tattle tale.

I don't know Kemp's motivation. And I generally don't like tattle-tales. Perhaps it should have been handled better by Kemp. Certainly Baker should not have said what he said.

The key thing for me, though, is that Republicans need to police Republicans. We don't need anti-semites. We don't need Larry Craig. We pay a price for having those people represent our party.

22 posted on 02/29/2008 6:10:34 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: SJackson
Let me also say that for an official to base American foreign policy on the voting habits of a domestic minority should be a disqualification from office.

LOL.

Better to have U.S. foreign policy based on the influence of foreign lobbyists?!

23 posted on 02/29/2008 6:16:02 AM PST by Alberta's Child (I'm out on the outskirts of nowhere . . . with ghosts on my trail, chasing me there.)
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To: SJackson

Do you think Jews don’t vote for Republicans because of Baker? The ongoing proof is that most Jews are liberal and they support overwhelmingly liberal candidates and communist dictators, groups that are out to kill them when the time is right.


24 posted on 02/29/2008 6:16:55 AM PST by rabidralph ("Hope," is an impotent wish unless followed with targeted "action.")
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To: ClearCase_guy

Good Grief! The Democrats are the anti-SEMITES!! If Jack Kemp was a REAL man, he would have gone to Jim Baker and gave him forty lashes....GEESH....and we are NOT the party of Perverts...the Democrats are!!


25 posted on 02/29/2008 6:18:00 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: SJackson
Secretary of State Baker, a bigot, tells Jews like me who voted for Bush to go FU*K ourselves.

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Although I voted for the man **twice** and I'm not Jewish, GWB has told a lot of us to go Fu*K ourselves. These topics on which this has occurred include, but are not limited to, the prescription drug give-a-way, his signing of McCain-Feingold, amnesty and border control, the out of control spending, and most recently, the vote buying "economic stimulus" scheme he's entered into with the DemocRats.....but there are other examples.....

26 posted on 02/29/2008 6:18:44 AM PST by Thermalseeker (Silence is not always a Sign of Wisdom, but Babbling is ever a Mark of Folly. - B. Franklin)
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
you can bet McCain will be weak dealing vs Islamic Terror

I am not a defender of McCain nor will I be voting for him. However, the idea that McCain will be weak in dealing with the WOT is pure, unadulterated BS.

27 posted on 02/29/2008 6:20:42 AM PST by kabar
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To: Ann Archy
I certainly agree. But the media is able to paint us as anti-semites because a high profile guy like Baker says stupid things. The media paints us as hypocritical perverts because Larry Craig tries to pick up men in public toilets.

It's not accurate. It's not fair. But the only way to combat it is to make sure that we actively police ourselves and not tolerate behavior that hurts the party.

28 posted on 02/29/2008 6:23:20 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Obadiah
Isn’t Zbigniew Brzezinski currently advising Barak Hussein Obama?

The anti-Semitic Brzezinski who worked for the anti-Semitic Carter......but hey James Baker said something that hurt their feelings and that;s all that matters.

29 posted on 02/29/2008 6:23:23 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion.....The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Baynative
is this the reason that Jews will vote as a block for a socialist democrat?

no. us jewish culture flows from the early 20th century immigration from eastern europe, which brought over a virulent socialist ethos. a strongly verbal, education-stressing, high-achievement culture vaulted the children of that cohort into powerful posts in the academy, law and media, leading to the spread of socialist ideology.

It is the culture I grew up within, and know intimately.

Israel is of secondary importance to these people; seizing control of the Federal coercive mechanism is vastly more important to them.

With the passage of the generations, however, the socialists are taking their foolishness to the next world. Their children, though still not devoted to Israel, seem more mainstream in their US politial ideology. FWIW.

30 posted on 02/29/2008 6:24:25 AM PST by NativeNewYorker (Freepin' Jew Boy)
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To: SJackson

What I never understood was how this bozo Baker, who was always a Bush family retainer, was able to serve as President Reagan’s chief of staff from 1981 to 1985.


31 posted on 02/29/2008 6:26:39 AM PST by LiveFree99
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To: SJackson
Meanwhile, the Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports that the wearing of baseball caps has become widespread among Orthodox Jewish men in France who fear that wearing a yarmulke will invite anti-Semitic attacks

Wouldn't they still stand out? I would think that baseball is virtually unknown in France, and that very few Frenchmen wear baseball caps.

32 posted on 02/29/2008 6:26:45 AM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: SJackson
A situation caused to a large extend by Republican bigots like Baker.

Please. Facts are stubborn things. The Jewish vote in this country has historically gone overwhelming Dem and in some cases, socialist, long before James Baker and other Rep "bigots" came on the scene.

Here is the Jewish Vote In Presidential Elections from 1916 onwards

33 posted on 02/29/2008 6:28:37 AM PST by kabar
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To: ClearCase_guy
Kemp and Baker never got along. Kemp was always very pro-Israel and he was HUD Secretary at that time, which is the position that deals most with big city mayors.

Baker's antipathy for Israel goes hand in hand with the Bush family's closeness to the Saudi royal family. The only reason the U.S. came to Kuwait's aid in the first Gulf War was because of the threat Iraq posed to the Saudis. Baker and Bush 41 could not have cared less about Iraq's threats to Israel.

34 posted on 02/29/2008 6:30:13 AM PST by Dems_R_Losers (Waiting for 2012 to vote for an actual Republican)
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To: ClearCase_guy

We pay a price for having those people represent our party.
+++++++++++++++++++
It’s why so many jews are democrats. The perception has always been that at least they have some influence there.
Too many high ranking republicans have given them ammo over the years.


35 posted on 02/29/2008 6:30:50 AM PST by Joan Kerrey
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
There is nothing "anti-Semetic" or "Jew-Hat[ing]" about what James Baker said. James Baker was clearly anti-Zionist, but that does not impute "anti-Semetism," merely anti-Zionism.

It would help matters if people understood the difference between being "Jewish" and being "Zionist." There are still in America a lot of Jews who believe that the Zionists went against the Word of God by establishing Israel by their actions rather than waiting for God to fulfill his promises.

I happen to be very pro-Israel and consider Israel one of our most indispensible and strongest allies...when it suits their needs...but for Ed "Crotch" to launch into this "poor us Jews" attack against anyone who takes exception to some of the actions of the state of Israel or who doesn't kowtow to AIPAC's every demand is beyond the pale.

If he has some sort of person animosity towards Baker, it is fine for him to voice it, but everything he attacks Baker for saying was factually accurate, if less than elegant in the manner in which it was said.

Too many people on the Left looking to be victims and not enough being adult enough to understand that not everyone is going to like you.
36 posted on 02/29/2008 6:31:15 AM PST by Sudetenland (McQueeg or Obama? McQueeg or Obama? Emotionally Unstable or Socialist? Decisions decisions!)
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To: exit82
And shame on Bush II for never addressing Baker’s perfidy on the Iraq Study Commission.

I think the Iraq Surrender Group's recommendations have been addressed perfectly. The President thanked them, then ignored them and did what he thought would work. It did. He proved them wrong, much more powerful than arguing with them.

37 posted on 02/29/2008 6:31:58 AM PST by Dilbert56 (Harry Reid, D-Nev.: "We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war.")
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To: SJackson
Focusing on the controversy over a cartoon in a Rutgers University newspaper mocking the Holocaust, Mayor Koch initiated correspondence with university presidents, scholars and free speech specialists about whether Rutgers was correct that it was powerless to respond.

Compare with the Islamic cartoon controversy, where only three or four print publications in the entire world have had the guts to publish them. It puts all these champions of free speech in a new light.

38 posted on 02/29/2008 6:32:34 AM PST by denydenydeny (Expel the priest and you don't inaugurate the age of reason, you get the witch doctor--Paul Johnson)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: exit82

And shame on Bush II for never addressing Baker’s perfidy on the Iraq Study Commission.


Yes.....and no doubt Baker’s seemingly pro-Islamic terrorist slant w the ISC was more than to curry favor w Islamic Terrorist states. Baker is anti-semitic


40 posted on 02/29/2008 6:36:37 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Anyone Notice....But It Is Only The Low-Rated Talk Radio Hosts That Support McCain)
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To: NativeNewYorker
With the passage of the generations, however, the socialists are taking their foolishness to the next world.

Wonder how that's working out.

My background is very similar. Yikes, what people.

41 posted on 02/29/2008 6:37:22 AM PST by SamuraiScot
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To: Baynative
Many people claim to respect straight talk

I guess I respect straight talk which is said with respect.

While I realize that Baker did not say this in a public forum, I see this a little like the Dixie Chicks: "Americans are stupid! Especially Country Music fans! Oh, and by the way, please by our new album!" It's just dumb to alienate the people you ought to be trying to attract.

For someone in politics to say "eff them" to an important demographic is dumb.

42 posted on 02/29/2008 6:37:50 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: silverleaf

I lose more respect for Kemp every day.


43 posted on 02/29/2008 6:38:08 AM PST by DManA
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To: Dems_R_Losers
The only reason the U.S. came to Kuwait's aid in the first Gulf War was because of the threat Iraq posed to the Saudis. Baker and Bush 41 could not have cared less about Iraq's threats to Israel.

The US has strategic interests in the Middle East. Yes, we do not want the world's largest exporter of oil and with the largest oil reserves to be taken over by Saddam or Iran. It is in our national interests to keep an uninterrupted supply of oil from the region and to maintain a good bilateral relationship with Saudi Arabia.

Israel was and is capable of defending itself against the Iraqis, Iranian, Syrians,. etc. Israel wisely stayed out of the Gulf War despite being hit by Iraqi scuds [as was Saudi Arabia.] It did so because it realized that its national interests were best served by doing so. To suggest that Baker and Bush 41 "could not have cared less about Iraq's threats to Israel" is patently false.

44 posted on 02/29/2008 6:38:34 AM PST by kabar
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To: SJackson

In my opinion, we should give support first to Israel. With that said, Mr. Baker needs to be retired out of government work unless he becomes a democrat.


45 posted on 02/29/2008 6:39:11 AM PST by CORedneck
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To: penelopesire

Also in the running, it appears, is Zbigniew Brzezinski, who served as President Jimmy Carter’s national security adviser. Years before Baker’s hostile remark about American Jews, Brzezinski, then an adviser to candidate Carter, was reported (by Marvin Kalb) to have said to an Israeli official, “How will you like the idea of working with a new president who owes nothing to the Jews?”

In March 1980, Koch caused a major controversy when he criticized Brzezinski and three other top Carter Mideast advisers as a “Gang of Four” who were trying to turn the U.S. against Israel. (The reference was to a group of Chinese leaders who had been pushed out of power by their rivals.)

“During his years in the Carter administration, Brzezinski did indeed push for a tilt against Israel, as he acknowledged later in his memoirs of that period. More recently, he and several colleagues issued a statement urging the U.S. and its allies to engage in “a genuine dialogue” with Hamas. Brzezinski has endorsed Senator Barack Obama for president and reportedly is part of Obama’s circle of foreign policy advisers.”

Obama would definately ‘CHANGE’ our foreign policy! Brzezinski has actively undermined our efforts in the WOT!


I understand your point.

However, a GOP anti-Semite is no different than a DNC anti-Semite. Any anti-Semite, regardless of party...is no supporter of the WoT...because they will be want to pander to the Islamic Terrorist states


46 posted on 02/29/2008 6:39:26 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Anyone Notice....But It Is Only The Low-Rated Talk Radio Hosts That Support McCain)
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To: kabar

I am not a defender of McCain nor will I be voting for him. However, the idea that McCain will be weak in dealing with the WOT is pure, unadulterated BS.


Anyone who does not want to secure our borders is not in support of national security....McCain will be weak on the War on Terror as he is an open borders liberal

McCain will “go to the gates of hell” to capture Osama bin Laden....but will let him cross the open Mexican border and give him a Z Visa

Our national security begins at home.


47 posted on 02/29/2008 6:44:07 AM PST by UCFRoadWarrior (Anyone Notice....But It Is Only The Low-Rated Talk Radio Hosts That Support McCain)
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To: NativeNewYorker

With the passage of the generations, however, the socialists are taking their foolishness to the next world. Their children, though still not devoted to Israel, seem more mainstream in their US politial ideology. FWIW.


In other words, they are assimilating.

I’ve never understood Jewish voting patterns, other than the socialist instinct. Particularly in the 04 election, in which they sided 87% against the man who liberated Iraq.

But you’ve helped to explain it a lot better than from anything else I’ve read.

I expect McCain to do much better with the Jewish vote this election cycle. Particularly with an Obama candidacy and his passive Farrakhan tolerance on the other side. And I say that knowing that Baker endorsed McCain just yesterday.


48 posted on 02/29/2008 6:47:52 AM PST by Senator Goldwater
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To: UCFRoadWarrior
I agree with you on securing the borders. McCain is more of the same whether it is Bush, Hillary or Obama. They all hold the same positions on amnesty and immigration issues. McCain, Obama, and Hillary all voted for the 2006 Secure Fence Act.

I am not voting for McCain or Obama or Hillary because of their positions on amnesty and immigration. Still, I think McCain is stronger on the WOT than the Dems, especially as it relates to Iraq.

49 posted on 02/29/2008 6:49:14 AM PST by kabar
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To: kabar
However, the idea that McCain will be weak in dealing with the WOT is pure, unadulterated BS.

So what you're saying is...McCain will start bombing Iran, Syria, and the biggest sponsor of real terrorism both here and abroad....SAUDI ARABIA???

Because that's the real WOT. This other stuff is just a facade to placate the American people that these globalist bastards are actually protecting this nation. Hah! I'll believe it when the borders are actually closed!

50 posted on 02/29/2008 6:53:42 AM PST by Ranger Drew
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