Posted on 02/29/2008 5:23:39 PM PST by Kaslin
Crime: The number of adults imprisoned in the U.S. has hit an all-time high, a new report says, bringing with it fresh concern about "our priorities." Don't know about you, but we think this is a good thing.
Last year alone, states spent $49 billion on corrections, an outlay that's been growing at a real rate of 6% for 20 years. Over the same period, real spending on prisons has risen 127% compared with a 21% increase in spending on higher education.
The folks at Pew — along with others — have a problem with this. "For all the money spent on corrections today," says Adam Gelb, director of the Public Safety Performance Project, "there hasn't been a clear and convincing return for public safety."
We respectfully disagree. Quite the opposite, in fact.
The good people at Pew look at only one side of the equation. The nearby chart shows the other. It plots the number of people in prison vs. the violent crimes rate.
Turns out that all those people in prison must have been doing a lot of bad stuff, since once they were deprived of their freedom the crime rate dropped. Last year, as the prison population swelled, the violent crime rate hit at a postwar low.
It's not hard to figure out why. Prison is a deterrent, just what it's meant to be. Saying the number of people behind bars has risen is, by itself, meaningless. It's only meaningful when compared with what the increased imprisonment is supposed to alleviate: Crime.
(Excerpt) Read more at ibdeditorials.com ...
Okay. What about the overall crime rate? Including nonviolent criminals, just like the overall prison population. Seems like we are creating more laws against the commons everyday. Not less.
More people are going to jail for stupid things; for peeing beside their car, for giving a kid a hug, for a million other stupid things. The legal system is now a joke.
Excellent and important points here. This isn’t rocket science.
What is quite obvious (except to the hug-a-thug liberals) is the costs of crime to society; i.e., medical costs incurred by the victims, funeral costs incurred by the victims, property loss costs incurred by the victims, higher insurance premiums, the costs associated with counseling for crime victims, lost wages and lost work productivity of crime victims, etc., etc.
I’ve been working at a federal prison for over 18 years.
I would rather just keep packing them in regardless of how difficult it makes the job.
At least this way I know my that family, friends and neighbors are that much safer...
I read a modified version of this article today in a local paper which said 1 in 9 black men between the ages of 20 and 34 are behind bars. In general, I agree that most who are incarcerated deserve to be there and I am not pleading racism or making any kind of charcterization, except that number is a jaw-dropping statistic, IMO.
Lets empty out death row for a starter,fire up the chair.
What percent of them are illegal aliens?
Go to the US Justice Stastics, some are copied here:
· Probation & parole
Corrections facts at a glance
Reentry Trends in the United States
Prison Statistics
Summary findings | BJS publications | Selected statistics |
Also by BJS staff | Related sites
Summary findings
On December 31, 2006 —
– 2,258,983 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails – an increase of 2.9% from yearend 2005, less than the average annual growth of 3.4% since yearend 1995.
– 1,502,179 sentenced prisoners were under State or Federal jurisdiction.
– there were an estimated 501 sentenced prisoners per 100,000 U.S. residents – up from 411 at yearend 1995.
– the number of women under the jurisdiction of State or Federal prison authorities increased 4.5% from yearend 2005, reaching 112,498, and the number of men rose 2.7%, totaling 1,458,363.
At yearend 2006 there were 3,042 black male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,261 Hispanic male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 Hispanic males and 487 white male sentenced prisoners per 100,000 white males.
In 2004 there were an estimated 633,700 State prisoners serving time for a violent offense. State prisons also held an estimated 265,600 property offenders and 249,400 drug offenders.
Click on the chart to view full sized version.
Most serious offense Percent of sentenced
State inmates
1995 2004
Total 100 % 100 %
Violent 47 52
Property 23 21
Drug 22 20
Public-order 9 7
To the top
IN CONCLUSION, THE TAXPAYER IS PAYING FOR THIS, and there is a better way. The pendulum is either way left or way right, and the answer lies somewhere in the middle. We stopped treatment because it was (far left_) against their constitutional rights (late 60’s) and then we decided to incarcerate everyone for everything (far right in 80’s). I think God intended a balance in all things and how we handle them, and I’m sorry to say we can’t seem to figure that out.
I couldn't agree more.
I got pulled for speeding last week. Yes, I actually was speeding. Well, I didn't know that the State of Virginia DMV had suspended my driver's license. They decided to "update their records" to verify I had insurance on June 16, 2006. Yes, on that specific date, the DMV wanted to know if I had car insurance. They contacted my insurance company, my insurance company did not respond. Poof! The DMV suspended my license.
So, instead of simply getting a speeding ticket and mailing in the fine, I was freakin' ARRESTED. I was cuffed, booked and spent a full day in the county jail, orange jumpsuit and everything.
After this whole mess is over with, and it's almost over, I will have spent approximately $1,000 on court costs, fees, fines, etc., all from a speeding ticket. The only reason it's not over with is because I'm STILL dealing with the DMV. I swear, I wouldn't wish doing any business with the DMV on my worst enemy. The incompetence and unwillingness to help you is awe inspiring. I've called 12 times the past week just to send them documents.
I'm as straight of an arrow as it gets, folks. No record, great driving history, military officer, former financial advisor, college degree, NEVER used drugs, etc etc etc. Yet I was snatched off the street, actually in front of my house, and sent directly to jail.
The entire corrections system is a huge source of revenue. You actually get CHARGED for being sent to jail. They charge you for your "stay", like a hotel. The cops charge you a fee for booking you, a "booking fee."
I think the VAST MAJORITY of the people in prison in America are poor schmucks like me.
Until all that gets fixed we need more prisons.
Body cavity search?
Plenty of room for American DWI’s but no room at all for Mexican DWI’s.
LOL, no. But it was the crappiest day of my life. I was amazed how fast an average Joe can go from grocery shopping at WAL MART to the county lockup. Cops these days have ZERO tolerance for any infraction, and they DON'T want to hear any mitigating circumstances. Most are on a power trip.
The cop didn't even have to arrest me. He could have simply given me a ticket and summons to go to court. He was just a jerk. I saw an attorney yesterday, he's going to court for me to get the whole thing thrown out. The lawyer knows all about the cop that arrested me, most local lawyers know all the cops and judges. He said that cop is the worst jerk around.
This pub (DOJ) , p5, says about 97,000 of all prisoners, as of mid -2005 are "non-citizens" A separate pub says, for Fed crimes only, that about 55% of non-citizens are illegals.
You can make your own computations , but it looks like well under 10% of the 1.5 to 2 million in ALL prisons or jails (not just Fed,which are only about 10% of the total) are illegal aliens.
Agreed. Imprison more people and you naturally get more of the really bad guys, so crime goes down. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be more discriminating about imprisoning people. We need to get those really bad guys without using the judicial system like a fishing net.
A friend of mine had some checks stolen by a housekeeper and he was completely unaware of it.
The housekeeper wrote bad checks in another state and my friend got a warrant out for his arrest that he wasn’t even aware of. He found out quite by accident, which was good, because otherwise he might have gotten thrown in jail on a traffic stop.
Anyone know how to check and see if there are any (inaccurate) outstanding warrants for arrest on yourself? Sounds like that might be something we all have to start doing.
And will some day retire, leaving him without the protection of that badge. Make of my comment what you will.
I think he had you in mind.
Don’t you think people who commit crimes against blacks should be punished?
This is a police state, I don't care what people say to argue otherwise.
I don’t think my post implied that. I think criminals should be in jail without consideration of their race or the race of their victims. My comment was just expressing my surprise to learn that 11% of blacks aged 20-34 are in jail. I just find that a huge number.
Incarceration of the bruthas is racist man!
/s
You haven't been to prison have you? Most folks in prison are predators who deserve to be there. You don't sound like that.
I don’t beleive in the electric chair.
With so many people on death row we need electric bleachers!
Let’s try a different tack, and see what conservatives think of as “alternatives to imprisonment”. Seriously.
The list I came up which of course has pluses and minuses, but what do you think?
1) Converting some non-violent crimes to fines? Would you rather be in jail for 6 months or pay a $20,000 fine?
2) Trustee labor outside of prison? That is, performing labor outside of prison to reestablish trust and show job experience, such as repairing government vehicles under supervision, and living in special prisoner apartments. They would build up a reserve of money in a bank account, for their eventual “relocation” to a fully free job.
3) Environmental and infrastructure improvements to Indian reservations. Tent cities and military field conditions to strongly reduce overcrowding in the brick prisons. This would be a reward for good behavior, not a punishment, and would cost a fraction of brick prison imprisonment.
I am ok with prisons for the most part, but serial murderers, rapists and pedophiles would be better kept under grave stones.
I guess a state prison, or "The Big House", yes, I agree. I was saying that most of the people in the county jails, at least from what I saw, were mostly a bunch of teens and twenty somethings. Most of the guys in there were for traffic offenses or not paying a fine.
I think he had you in mind.
Huh?
The housekeeper wrote bad checks in another state and my friend got a warrant out for his arrest that he wasn’t even aware of. He found out quite by accident, which was good, because otherwise he might have gotten thrown in jail on a traffic stop.
Anyone know how to check and see if there are any (inaccurate) outstanding warrants for arrest on yourself? Sounds like that might be something we all have to start doing.
Scary, isn't it? How is the average Joe supposed to know that there is something on his "record" that could get him in trouble?
I had no idea my license was suspended. What am I supposed to do, call the DMV monthly to check the status of my driver's license? The only time I even think of the DMV is every two years when I get my tags renewed for another two years.
I got the impression that it's just the government playing "GOTCHA".
Back in the middle ‘80’s Michigan built, and quickly filled, 17 brand new prisons. Of course, the crime rate plummeted downward. The funny part was, when all the social workers and liberals started screaming for more funds as the downward crime rate had “proved” their social engineering programs were working.
A corollary:
More laws = more crime
More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says
When you start digging into the numbers the only ones that can be sourced with the feds are the number of American murdered in 2005: 16692
I have seen federal numbers for illegals held in jail ranging from 19.3% to 27% of the federal prison population.
Here's a sampling of USA cities wanted for murder. What you'll see is that in big USA cities like LA or NYC most of the murderers are Hispanic. Unknown are the % of illegals. In smaller cities the FBI will post the nationalities of the murderers. About 25% of the most wanted are illegals wanted for murder. This number agrees with the percentage of illegals incarcerated in federal prisons. +-25%Pictures of top 10 most wanted in LA. Up until recent stories about crime in LA posted by the LA Times--the pictures included the nationality of the murderers. They were all foreign nationals and mostly Mexican.
Wanted for Murder in New York City.
Chicago wanted for Murder
Philadelphia wanted for murder
San Francisco wanted for Murder
New Orleans wanted for Murder
Pictures of suspects wanted for murder in Washington DC
FBI USA 10 most wanted. (two of 10 are Mexican nationals)
There are currently no exact numbers on the number of Americans killed by illegals. Part of the reason is that the government deliberately obscures the number. I talked on the phone with the head of statistics for the US Bureau of Prisons. He said his office wasn't allowed to publish the number of illegal alien murderers. Rather they were forced to put legal and non legal residents in the same category. I talked to ICE. They put out detailed numbers on illegal child molestors. However, they put out nothing on illegal murderers.
Part of the reason for the silence on the matter is that there is evidence to suggest that most Americans being killed by illegals are black--as is the suggestion in this LA Times Article. Also this article from the LA Times. And here. This makes intuitive sense. We see stories regularly of drug gang killings in Mexico but we don't see those same stories in the USA. The reason we don't see those stories is not because its not happening. Rather we don't see the stories about illegals killing blacks because that kind of story is terribly politically incorrect. The populations being displaced in downtown sanctuary cities especially are American blacks. That means that their criminal elements would be pushed aside by Mexican gangs as well. That's also the story that the wanted for murder posters in all the major cities seems to suggest.
Nevertheless, the pattern of non reporting is starting to break. Discovery Channel has a series called Gangland that mentions ethnic cleasing of blacks by Mexican gangs
Reported Foreign Nationals on Death Row in the U.S.
To look at other USA cities go here http://stlouis.fbi.gov/ and replace stlouis with the city you want.
All that said the true number of criminal aliens is far higher than is revealed by criminal aliens in prisons. Most are simply waived through the courts.DHS Secretary Chertoff, has been quoted as warning that two million people in this country illegally have committed serious crimes. See also here and here
Repeat: More prisoners = More victims of War on Some Drugs
Correlation does not equal causation.
A big part of the reason we have so many people in prison is that we don’t lock up criminals early enough or for long enough. We allow them to become “career criminals” before they get even a single multi-year stint in the slammer. Meanwhile, they’re roaming the streets, bragging of long rap sheets, encouraging kids to emulate them. Eventually the kids have to be locked up too. If we started handing out long prison terms for “minor” crimes (purse-snatching, breaking and entering, etc.), we wouldn’t have this huge population of career criminals influencing the culture of whole neighborhoods, and we wouldn’t have a huge population of people who move on from “minor” crimes to the ones that actually get them locked up.
Then stick everyone in prison and only let them out if they can prove they are honest citizens.
The fact is that a high prison population says we’ve got problems, not that we are solving crime.
A majority of our prison population comes from an open border and a failure of the federal government to enforce our immigration laws.
“Agreed. Imprison more people and you naturally get more of the really bad guys, so crime goes down. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be more discriminating about imprisoning people. We need to get those really bad guys without using the judicial system like a fishing net.”
I could agree with that.
One thing I would expect would help a lot would be if the government actually got serious about prosecuting criminals in its midst, and also showed some real willingness to re-open cases involving government personnel who have since been caught in malfeasance.
Perhaps those in power are worried that re-opening such cases would undermine the government's credibility. I would suggest that its credibility is undermined far worse when it refuses to revisit convictions that are widely seen as unjust.
If revisiting the cases tried before a particular judge results in 10% of the convictions being overturned, the public should have some confidence in the remaining 90%. By contrast, if 0.1% of the judge's convictions were indisputably bogus but the government refused to revisit them, there wouldn't be much confidence in the other 99.9%.
“Imprison more people and you naturally get more of the really bad guys, so crime goes down. “
That’s a true statement but there is a downside.
The non-violent offenders get familiar with the whole prison culture and hang around the really bad guys. That’s why you see the prison culture fashion (baggy clothes and such) being brought into the mainstream.
So many people have been in prison for relatively minor offenses and now they can’t get hired hardly anywhere except for the most menial jobs. If they had not to prison maybe they would have a chance to live a more productive life.
It’s not the ‘minor’ crimes that are the problem. The ones you mention are still violent crimes.
The issue is that prisons are filled with non-violent drug offenders who are naturally going to come out of prison as even more hardened criminals. The cycle repeats itself on and on.
Many states are going to so-called ‘drug courts’ and rehab programs to try and keep some of these people out of prison for the rest of their lives.
I don’t know how many of the “non-violent drug offenders” who are in prison actually haven’t also committed “minor” violent or property crimes. People aren’t getting prison terms for getting caught with an ounce of marijuana for personal use.
A BIG problem with our whole “justice” system is that people’s convictions are very often not for what they actually did. Plea-bargaining is totally out of control. The 40 year old guy who raped a 12-year-old girl may be in prison on a conviction for “corrupting the morals of a minor” (as if he had shown her a dirty magazine or something) because the girl’s parents didn’t want her to have to testify and the DA didn’t think he could get a conviction without her testimony — doesn’t mean the guy isn’t a rapist; if he’d just shown the girl some dirty magazines he’d have gotten a slap on the wrist and not a prison term.
Likewise, the person who’s in prison on a “non-violent drug offense” conviction may well be somebody who authorities know perfectly well has done a good deal of mugging and burglary to support the drug habit, but the mugging and burglary victims may be too scared to testify or can’t ID the perp, and police caught the perp they know did the muggings and burglaries with a substantial amount of crack for the third time, so they get locked up for the drug possession, even though that isn’t the real reason the DA decided to prosecute.
I’m suspicious of all the pro-recreational drug Libertarians howling about our prisons being filled to the rafters with “non-violent drug offenders” who really just need “treatment” and are “no danger to anyone but themselves”. They’re managing to convince a lot of people it’s true, but that doesn’t mean it is.
Your point about people becoming more hardened criminals during the course of prison term is well-taken, though. But I’d say the answer to that is to change how the prisons are run, rather to stop locking people up when they have a drug habit and/or drug business that is clearly leading to habitual violent and/or property crimes.
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