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Just Say No... to Hugs?
ExurbanLeague.com ^ | Feb. 29, 2008 | Exurban Jon

Posted on 03/01/2008 8:21:41 AM PST by inkling

Sweet smoking Judas, you’ve gotta be kidding me. Mesa Public Schools has instituted a No Hugging Policy?

A group of Shepherd Junior High School students in east Mesa protested a new school policy banning student hugs with a giant group hug on Friday.

Students waited until school was dismissed before gathering across the street from the campus to begin hugging each other and then chanting, "We want hugs."

Some kids sat on the shoulders of their friends during the display.

The public display of affection and chanting came at 3:45 p.m. and lasted about 20 minutes.

Neither principal Eileen Cahoon nor Kathy Bareiss, spokeswoman for Mesa Public Schools, immediately returned calls seeking comment about the new anti-hugging policy and student reaction to it.

The new rule was announced Wednesday.

One student, 14-year-old Chelsea Burnham, said she had to serve an hour detention Thursday after the new rule for hugging a friend. She also was forced to read the school's new "public display of affection" policy.

Detention for hugging?! Words fail me. If they don't change this, someone better be out of a job.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: discipline; education; hugs; pc; pda; teens
First they made schools Gun-Free Zones... now they're going to be Hug-Free Zones? PC, zero-tolerance madness.
1 posted on 03/01/2008 8:21:44 AM PST by inkling
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To: inkling

But they’ll pass out condoms and begin sex ed in Kindergarten! Hypocirsy at its finest. This is what you get when government is in charge of stuff it has no business being in charge of. Can’t wait until they take over health care. /s


2 posted on 03/01/2008 8:34:04 AM PST by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: inkling
First they made schools Gun-Free Zones... now they're going to be Hug-Free Zones? PC, zero-tolerance madness.

From the article:

Before the protest, a group of students met with the principal to learn what was considered acceptable public displays of affection and what wasn't.

The list of acceptable public displays are:

• Stopping and talking in the halls (but moving to the side to allow others to pass).

• Shaking a friend's hand and patting him on the back in a "man hug"

• Draping an arm around someone's shoulder in a "hook hug"

• Holding hands

• Linking arms

• Hugging no longer than 2 seconds

• Respecting other people's opinions and values

So to you, not allowing the students to grope each other in the halls for more than 2 seconds at a time is zero tolerance madness?

3 posted on 03/01/2008 8:40:28 AM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: socialismisinsidious
But they’ll pass out condoms and begin sex ed in Kindergarten! Hypocirsy at its finest. This is what you get when government is in charge of stuff it has no business being in charge of. Can’t wait until they take over health care. /s

I dare you to cite a single case where this school, or any school in Mesa, handed out so much as one condom to anyone, ever.

4 posted on 03/01/2008 8:43:01 AM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: inkling

Hugging is sexual harassment.


5 posted on 03/01/2008 8:45:05 AM PST by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: inkling

When I was a teenager I would have been expelled in this Mesa school for hugging my girlfriend the way I did back in the good old 80s. LOL


6 posted on 03/01/2008 8:48:43 AM PST by FUMETTI (Hillary, burn those pantsuits)
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To: FUMETTI

When I was a teenager in the Mesa schools, couples were not allowed to hold hands. Bodies never touched, not even while slow dancing at a school dance.


7 posted on 03/01/2008 9:12:08 AM PST by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Antonello
"So to you, not allowing the students to grope each other in the halls for more than 2 seconds at a time is zero tolerance madness?"

Sorry when I hug I hug for 2.76 seconds. the 2 second limit is just not acceptable.

And my next question are all teachers and hall monitors issued a stop watch to time the hugs?

8 posted on 03/01/2008 9:15:59 AM PST by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: Mad Dawgg

2.76 seconds??? ARE YOU MAD??? ;-)


9 posted on 03/01/2008 9:17:11 AM PST by Xenophon450 (I guess I'll never know, some things under the sun can never be understood...)
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To: donna
When I was a teenager in the Mesa schools, couples were not allowed to hold hands. Bodies never touched, not even while slow dancing at a school dance.


10 posted on 03/01/2008 9:17:14 AM PST by F-117A (Mr. Bush, have someone read UN Resolution 1244 to you!!!)
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To: inkling

When hugs are outlawed, only outlaws will get hugs...


11 posted on 03/01/2008 9:17:36 AM PST by Snardius
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To: Mad Dawgg

The teenage transvestites want to hug everyone all the time. It’s a fire hazard.


12 posted on 03/01/2008 9:19:08 AM PST by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Xenophon450
"ARE YOU MAD??? ;-)"

Yes, but I prefer Dawgg as a one word moniker. ;-)

13 posted on 03/01/2008 9:19:29 AM PST by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: donna
"The teenage transvestites want to hug everyone all the time. It’s a fire hazard."

Why? Are tranies prone to spontaneous combustion?

14 posted on 03/01/2008 9:21:59 AM PST by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: F-117A

You can’t imagine how exciting a touch can be when it is special.


15 posted on 03/01/2008 9:23:57 AM PST by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Mad Dawgg

Lice epidemics, ick.


16 posted on 03/01/2008 9:25:53 AM PST by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Mad Dawgg

Would you hug one?


17 posted on 03/01/2008 9:26:54 AM PST by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: donna
You can’t imagine how exciting a touch can be when it is special.

Not only can I imagine, but I know!

18 posted on 03/01/2008 9:27:22 AM PST by F-117A (Mr. Bush, have someone read UN Resolution 1244 to you!!!)
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To: donna
"Would you hug one?"

Many factors need be considered in such a case not the least of which is the spontaneous combustion issue.

19 posted on 03/01/2008 9:30:38 AM PST by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: Mad Dawgg
Sorry when I hug I hug for 2.76 seconds. the 2 second limit is just not acceptable.

Okay, for the purposes of discussion, how long is too long in a junior high school hallway? Or do you feel it would be damaging to the students' self esteem to not allow them to do whatever they want for as long as they want?

I'm sorry, but a lingering hug is not a greeting, it is foreplay. Get a room.

20 posted on 03/01/2008 9:31:58 AM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: Antonello
True, possible they haven't yet but you do know that the Governor, Janet Napolitano, just turned down 1 million in federal funding for abstinece-only education b/c it's been "proved not to work"?

Time will tell. In any event I shouldn't have made a statement about mesa based on government schools in general.
21 posted on 03/01/2008 9:42:06 AM PST by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: Mad Dawgg

My name ees speedy gonzales, two seconds ees plenty.


22 posted on 03/01/2008 9:46:04 AM PST by mathurine
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To: Antonello
At first read I was flooded as the silly sounding policy. After reading what the police actually is, I don't see whats so bad about it. Clearly they baned the near pornographic behavior many high schooler are engaged in between classes. I get the feeling they were having a problem with students making out etc. in the halls. If memory serves my, you couldn't get away with much more than that list of things in my high school. (92-96)
23 posted on 03/01/2008 9:50:20 AM PST by chaos_5 (Vote for change - ObamaNation 2008!)
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To: socialismisinsidious
True, possible they haven't yet but you do know that the Governor, Janet Napolitano, just turned down 1 million in federal funding for abstinece-only education b/c it's been "proved not to work"?

And I know the Mesa community. It ain't gonna happen here. Guaranteed.

24 posted on 03/01/2008 9:56:45 AM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: socialismisinsidious

Oh, and Arizona has a long and rich history of turning down federal funding because we strongly believe that we are going to do things however we see fit, and no one gets to tell us otherwise because of ‘strings attached’ money.


25 posted on 03/01/2008 10:00:51 AM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: Antonello
Actually, those details you cited were added to the article several hours after our post (someone was annoyed at the outrage apparently). However, they gave a girl detention for a quick hug and I doubt teachers are walking around carrying stopwatches.

No earlier reports mentioned any two-second allowance, but repeatedly stressed that no hugs were allowed. It seems like Mesa P.S. is trying to play CYA after the fact.

26 posted on 03/01/2008 10:22:39 AM PST by inkling (exurbanleague.com)
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To: inkling

Detention for hugging seems a bit much.

However, hugging is seriously overrated. I always say no unless you’re really a very close friend. Discernment is a good thing.

You could even make a case for casual hugging leading to sexual excess.


27 posted on 03/01/2008 10:29:16 AM PST by Veto! (Opinions freely dispensed as advice)
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To: Antonello
"Okay, for the purposes of discussion, how long is too long in a junior high school hallway?"

Myself I can't settle for less than 2.76 seconds.

28 posted on 03/01/2008 10:33:31 AM PST by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: Antonello

Let’s hope you’re right. It is law in the state of AZ that sex-ed be taught so hopefully the Mesa School board won’t want (”need”) money so badly that they will be willing to compromise on the abstinence curriculum. Unfortunately money talks, loudly. Diligence.


29 posted on 03/01/2008 10:41:10 AM PST by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: Veto!
"You could even make a case for casual hugging leading to sexual excess."

Yes, and in that same vein you could make the case that being equipped with male or female genitalia leads to such excesses also.

Actually if one considers that Schools are in essence the cause of much sexual excess being children spend many hours a day in close proximity to one another, and engage in many activities that stimulate the libido we need to consider the implications

Maybe we need to rethink Schools in general and just have kids stay at home and uses a computer terminal to get their education. Then we remove the Hugging/sexual excess issue altogether.

30 posted on 03/01/2008 10:41:20 AM PST by Mad Dawgg ("`Eddies,' said Ford, `in the space-time continuum.' `Ah,' nodded Arthur, `is he? Is he?'")
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To: inkling
Actually, those details you cited were added to the article several hours after our post (someone was annoyed at the outrage apparently). However, they gave a girl detention for a quick hug and I doubt teachers are walking around carrying stopwatches.

No earlier reports mentioned any two-second allowance, but repeatedly stressed that no hugs were allowed. It seems like Mesa P.S. is trying to play CYA after the fact.

It may very well be true the article you cited was changed after your initial commentary on it, in which case it could certainly be understandable that you would interpret it as an overreacting zero tolerance policy. However, unless you are challenging the article's claim that these policy details were provided to the students before the protest then I cannot see how you can think it is the school that is playing CYA.

And I would be interested to see the report that gave details on the duration and circumstances of your poster girl's hug. You must have these, since you are now saying it was a 'quick hug', right?

Finally, it is unbecomingly obtuse to assert that a stopwatch is essential to determine if a hug is a greeting or a lingering, inappropriate sexual act. Or are you saying that the policy would be acceptable if it was really enforced by stopwatch instead of common sense?

31 posted on 03/01/2008 10:43:06 AM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: donna
Hugging is sexual harassment.

You are legally correct, it is harassment. Third-party harassment, specifically. If some third person sees the hug, she can declare it harassment to her, even though she had nothing to do with the hug.

Don't shoot me, I'm the messenger.

32 posted on 03/01/2008 10:48:56 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Don't trust anyone who can’t take a joke. [Congressman BillyBob])
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To: Antonello
Antonello, the district changed the policy in reaction to the protests:

A new crackdown on public displays of affection was clarified by principal Eileen Cahoon on Friday after students protested her ban on hugging in the hallways...

The principal said the crackdown initiated this week prohibited most physical contact other than shaking hands and “standing very close to each other.” Put simply, she said: “PDA’s are not allowed on campus.”

Cahoon said the punishment for public displays of affection can range from a verbal warning to suspension.

So Cahoon told the students earlier this week that hugging and other public displays of affection would no longer be tolerated. This included casual hugs between friends of the same gender.

Students were allowed to shake hands, Cahoon said, and it would probably be OK for athletes at sporting events to congratulate each other with a hug.

But hugging in the hallways was strictly forbidden.

Students caught hugging in the last two days have been sent to the principal’s office for a chat.

Allie Oberfield, a seventh grader, said that she was sent to the principal for a “friendly hug” that was not more than two seconds. But because she had never been sent to the principal before, she was let off with a warning...

After meeting with students Friday, Cahoon modified the policy to allow one-armed hugs and hugs less than two seconds long.

(Link here)

33 posted on 03/01/2008 10:53:07 AM PST by inkling (exurbanleague.com)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Stop looking at me . . . or I’ll sue!


34 posted on 03/01/2008 10:55:38 AM PST by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: donna

Employees have been fired from companies for exactly that.


35 posted on 03/01/2008 11:09:14 AM PST by Cyber Liberty (Don't trust anyone who can’t take a joke. [Congressman BillyBob])
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To: inkling

Maybe Barney is in charge of this Nation.


36 posted on 03/01/2008 11:18:00 AM PST by GingisK
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To: inkling
Okay, I am starting to see more of the picture now.

If I get the timeline right, the school enacted a strict policy in response to student concerns. After evaluating the results and meeting with students, the school administrators acknowledged that the policy went too far and on Friday proposed the more relaxed version that allows quick hugs.

This policy was deemed acceptable to the vast majority of the students, but a small group went ahead and protested after school that day anyway.

I also noticed that the school specifically addressed the concerns about timing the hugs:

Students said that the new policy, which will take effect Monday, is acceptable, though concerns arose about who would be timing the hugs and whether students can comfort a friend who is crying.

Kathy Bareiss, spokeswoman for the Mesa Unified School District, said that the school will use “good sense” in handling these situations.

“These policies will be enforced strictly for a little while, until the problem is under control,” Bareiss said. After that, the decisions will be made on a case-by-case basis.

“We’re talking about kids taking it to the limits and breaking the rules,” Bareiss said.

In light of all this, I just have one simple question for you: Do you oppose or approve of the policy as it stands right now?

37 posted on 03/01/2008 11:37:06 AM PST by Antonello (Oh my God, don't shoot the banana!)
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To: Antonello
Actually, your good questions led me to understand the timeline far better (I'll need to put up a new blog post later today). Thanks for that!

As blogged about, I think they did the wrong thing with the initial policy, but I think the post-protest compromise is a good one. The AzCentral article is very poorly written, but the EV Trib version helps me understand it a lot better.

38 posted on 03/01/2008 11:43:43 AM PST by inkling (exurbanleague.com)
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To: Cyber Liberty

Remember this?

Ex-First Lady Hillary Keeps No Eye-Contact Rule
Jan. 22, 2001

“When ‘Queen Hillary’ walks down the hall, you’re not supposed to look at her. You’re actually supposed to go into an office if there is one nearby. She doesn’t want staff ‘seeing’ her.”

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a6c70fe1918.htm


39 posted on 03/01/2008 1:08:54 PM PST by donna ("I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth.” - Barack Hussein Obama)
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To: Antonello
Or are you saying that the policy would be acceptable if it was really enforced by stopwatch instead of common sense?

The schools can give teachers stop-watches. They can't give them common sense.

40 posted on 03/01/2008 2:25:04 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (Never say yer sorry, mister. It's a sign of weakness)
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