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Iraqi Army to Ditch AK-47s for M-16s
Military.com ^ | February 27, 2008 | Christian Lowe

Posted on 03/06/2008 10:27:33 AM PST by gandalftb

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Well, I've used them both extensively. If I wanted to fight sometimes and still be able to dig latrines, I'd take the AK. If I want to fight all the time, have an E-tool, and want to shoot accurately to 400 yards and don't mind cleaning my weapon, I go with the M-16.

The Muj don't like M-16s, little access to ammo, parts or armorers. This will also make it easier to spot the friendlies.

Would not want to meet the Muj with them, however.

1 posted on 03/06/2008 10:27:33 AM PST by gandalftb
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To: gandalftb

This is good. Very symbolic. The good guys always carry M-16s.


2 posted on 03/06/2008 10:31:17 AM PST by Yardstick
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To: gandalftb; SandRat; tongue-tied; tomkow6; Allegra; All

OH SANDRATTTT


3 posted on 03/06/2008 10:32:40 AM PST by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: gandalftb

Why don’t they make M-16s in 7.62?


4 posted on 03/06/2008 10:32:55 AM PST by WakeUpAndVote (Pork, just bring the hot sauce!)
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To: Yardstick

the AK for upclose....an M-14 for medium long range and to shoot through stuff, a Bolt action for super long range sniping ...and put the Mattel out to pasture....


5 posted on 03/06/2008 10:34:21 AM PST by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: Yardstick

The good guys always carry M-16s... until they’re captured by or sold to the bad guys.

How much is this going to cost us the taxpayers?


6 posted on 03/06/2008 10:35:08 AM PST by satan
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To: gandalftb
"We in the U.S. know that the M-16 is superior to the AK ... it's more durable,"

(snicker) right, more durable.

Over here in most parts of the US the 16 is the way to go. But over their? NO. They need somthing else. The average American can keep a 16 running under those conditions but folks that grew up with AKs will tire of the constant attention required

7 posted on 03/06/2008 10:36:32 AM PST by TLI ( ITINERIS IMPENDEO VALHALLA)
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To: satan

Hey, I’d like a couple M-16s please. I’m partially paying for them after all!


8 posted on 03/06/2008 10:36:40 AM PST by adaven
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To: gandalftb

Given the choice, I would take a 308!!!


9 posted on 03/06/2008 10:37:00 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: WakeUpAndVote
Why don’t they make M-16s in 7.62?

Then they'd have to call them M-21s.

10 posted on 03/06/2008 10:37:21 AM PST by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages - In Honor of Standing Wolf)
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To: gandalftb

I know we spent a bundle on new AK’s a while back, but in retrospect, this is a good move and shows how much both military cultures have learned from each other.

We are better off setting up supply chains on our weapons that are harder to corrupt. They are better assuming our weapons and tactics to build themselves into a powerful, regional nation.

I’m certain the press will soon be running articles on how we are flooding the market in used AK’s in the region now./s


11 posted on 03/06/2008 10:37:41 AM PST by Wiseghy ("You want to break this army? Then break your word to it.")
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To: WakeUpAndVote

Then it would be an M-14..............


12 posted on 03/06/2008 10:38:05 AM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: gandalftb

I bet a bunch of those young internet savy kids next door in Iran would love one of those surplus AK’s!

Do they have Ramadan stockings?


13 posted on 03/06/2008 10:39:14 AM PST by The Toll
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To: WakeUpAndVote
They do!
14 posted on 03/06/2008 10:39:30 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: gandalftb

We will have a lot of M-16’s available when they are replaced in most TOE’s in the not too distant future.


15 posted on 03/06/2008 10:39:56 AM PST by Old Retired Army Guy (tHE)
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To: WakeUpAndVote

“Why don’t they make M-16s in 7.62?”

Ammunition supply train issues. 308 is bigger and heavier than 223. A soldier can carry more 223 ammo.

Personally I prefer the 308 but I don’t have to carry a battle load.


16 posted on 03/06/2008 10:40:06 AM PST by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..
Last I heard, FN had the contract to make M-16s (and M-4s, too, I think) for the U.S. military. I don't know if that's still the case.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

17 posted on 03/06/2008 10:40:09 AM PST by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: satan
How much is this going to cost us the taxpayers?

Put it on the tab. It's $3 trillion so what's a few $ billion.

18 posted on 03/06/2008 10:40:43 AM PST by RightWhale (Clam down! avoid ataque de nervosa)
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To: WakeUpAndVote
Forgot to add, the ak is also made in 308!
19 posted on 03/06/2008 10:41:14 AM PST by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: gandalftb

My quibble with the M-16 is the round. The AK-47 has the larger ammunition. Isn’t that important? Put a 7.62 in the M-16 and I have no problem with it at all.

I note others have mentioned this as well.


20 posted on 03/06/2008 10:42:34 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Some think McCain should pick his No 2 now. I thought the nominee was No 2. And that No 1s me off!)
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To: gandalftb

Once again, if it ain’t broke, let’s fix it anyway. The AK-47 is much better suited to the region.


21 posted on 03/06/2008 10:43:09 AM PST by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: Red Badger

“Then it would be an M-14..............”

PIA to carry but my favorite weapon to shoot. 800 yd with iron sites not a problem.


22 posted on 03/06/2008 10:43:45 AM PST by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: WakeUpAndVote

They do - its called an AR-10.


23 posted on 03/06/2008 10:43:58 AM PST by Little Ray (Drink the KoolAid: McCain for President!)
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To: WakeUpAndVote

They do make the M-4 in 7.62 x 51


24 posted on 03/06/2008 10:44:10 AM PST by newbolt
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To: USS Alaska

The M-21 is a .308 M14-based rifle used as a sniping rifle.

But they do make the M-16 in .308. It’s called the AR-10. Or the DPMS .308. Or the Bushmaster XM-15 in .308.


25 posted on 03/06/2008 10:44:23 AM PST by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: gandalftb
Good morning.

I don't suppose we citizens could be offered good prices on those old AKs.

Oh well, just fantasizing.

Michael Frazier

26 posted on 03/06/2008 10:44:24 AM PST by brazzaville (No surrender, no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: gandalftb

the AK was the only piece of Soviet equipment worth a crap. It is a remarkable weapon.


27 posted on 03/06/2008 10:44:35 AM PST by Retired Greyhound
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To: dangerdoc

I love that beautiful woodgrain stock............


28 posted on 03/06/2008 10:45:30 AM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: Red Badger

American grown black walnut. I have two M1A’s, sanded and oiled the stocks, pretty enough to make you cry.


29 posted on 03/06/2008 10:47:11 AM PST by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: gandalftb

There is a much deeper situation going on here.

To start with, the world is covered with AK-47s, most all of which fire 7.62mm ammo. It is a weapon designed for minimal maintenance, having only three parts to clean in the field.

The M-16, however, fires 5.56mm ammo. It is a weapon that must have a lot of maintenance, and is very easy to screw up. It is not a weapon for a poor country or one unfriendly with the US.

But this misses a critical fact: Who makes the ammo?

Without ammo, either weapon is just a heavy stick. And ammo doesn’t store very well, even in good conditions.

There are relatively few manufacturers of ammo in the world, and if their nations agree, the supply of 7.62 or 5.56 ammo could dry up pretty quickly.

However, if both sides in a fight use 7.62, then sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. But if one side uses 7.62 and the other side uses 5.56, suddenly you have an interesting situation.

Say, Iraq is fighting a country that uses 7.62 ammo. If still friendly with the US, Iraq could get enormous amounts of 5.56 ammo. But if there was an embargo of 7.62 ammo, the other side would either have to pay a premium for its ammo, or not get any at all.

And this matters. Even if they stole ammo from Iraq, they couldn’t use it.

But it gets better. After years of selling AK-47s to the rest of the world, suddenly the major powers are considering restricting the sale of 7.62 ammo. Almost overnight, this could cause a worldwide shortage, followed by a de facto demilitarization of much of the world.

No longer would the third and fourth world be tormented by a few nuts with AK-47s. People who before the AK-47 had to use spears and arrows would have to return to them as their weapon of choice. Much of the world would quickly be pacified.

Yet at the same time, the major powers would still have plenty of ammunition for their own use, and the use of their allies. Belligerent tyrants could be effectively locked out.


30 posted on 03/06/2008 10:49:44 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: dangerdoc
Personally I prefer the 308 but I don’t have to carry a battle load.

Nothing like 5-6 loaded 20 round magazines of 7.62 on your waist to see the advantage of the 5.56 for the average grunt.

31 posted on 03/06/2008 10:52:47 AM PST by doorgunner69
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To: WakeUpAndVote
M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System


32 posted on 03/06/2008 10:53:47 AM PST by Anti-Bubba182
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To: gandalftb
Well, I've used them both extensively. If I wanted to fight sometimes and still be able to dig latrines, I'd take the AK. If I want to fight all the time, have an E-tool, and want to shoot accurately to 400 yards and don't mind cleaning my weapon, I go with the M-16.

LOL, well stated.

There is a stalwart contingent of M16 haters on FR, but they're generally cordial.

The Kalashnikov is a remarkable fighting rifle, but it's not optimized for well trained, disciplined armies.

After over forty years, the M16 series has cemented its place as the most versatile, flexible, reliable and lethal individual weapons system in recent history.

33 posted on 03/06/2008 10:54:39 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: gandalftb

This right here is the key to the article:

[blockquote]A system that registers each rifle with the individual who receives it using biometric data such as thumb prints and eye scans is meant to address concerns over U.S. weapons winding up in enemy hands. A July 2007 Government Accountability Office report concluded that as many as 190,000 weapons delivered to the Iraqi army were not accounted for and could’ve wound up in terrorist caches.[/blockquote]

We’re just looking for a good way to account for all the guns we’re handing over, in addition to getting a little business for our gun manufacturers. There are hundreds of thousands of AK’s floating around Iraq, they could find the parts and pieces to equip and repair weapons for the entire Iraq army pretty much into perpetuity with what’s already there. And i think it’s fair to say they’ve been using the danged things since they were kids.


34 posted on 03/06/2008 10:55:52 AM PST by Blackyce (President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.")
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To: gandalftb
I always thought the 16 was a pain in the ass. with an M-16, you had "inspection-ready" and "combat-ready". "Inspection-ready" was fully-cleaned, lightly oiled. "Combat-ready" was slathering the firing system with CLP. IMHO, that was what happened with the Jessica Lynch unit, they didn't have their weapons combat-ready. Only one veteran Sergeant had a weapon that consistently fired, and the others jammed- their weapons were "inspection-ready".

However, caring and cleaning an M-16 would require a professionalism normally missing from 3rd world armies. If some retard terrorist stole one, he'd throw it away the first time it jammed-which an M-16 is always looking for an excuse to do.

35 posted on 03/06/2008 10:59:57 AM PST by MuttTheHoople
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

The AK-47 uses 7.62x39, while the M-14 / M1A etc uses 7.62x51 (i.e. .308). Not the same ammo.


36 posted on 03/06/2008 11:00:05 AM PST by 76Tiger
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To: Blackyce

Geeez....... Here in CA I can’t get a decent AK or AR due to our AWB, but they’re given them away in Iraq?


37 posted on 03/06/2008 11:00:31 AM PST by umgud
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To: gandalftb

Dang. They are going to give what little .223 ammo is available to the Iraqis.

I already can’t afford to shoot....


38 posted on 03/06/2008 11:04:06 AM PST by ibbryn (this tag intentionally left blank)
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To: gandalftb

39 posted on 03/06/2008 11:04:40 AM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: WakeUpAndVote

The M14 7.62mm Rifle was replaced in the sixties with the M16 5.56mm for a wide variety of reasons not the least of which is the additional amount of ammo a troop can carry into battle. Also the m16 seems to tie up enemy resources by delivering an incapacitating wound rather than certain death, or at least that’s how the theory goes.


40 posted on 03/06/2008 11:05:31 AM PST by Camel Joe (liberal=socialist=royalist/imperialist pawn=enemy of Freedom)
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To: gandalftb
"But keep in mind most of these AKs have been sitting around in bunkers or whatnot for 30 or 40 years [and] are in various stages of disrepair."

So? Get a garden hose and wash of the big chunks of dirt, wipe them down with an oilcloth, and they're good to go for another 30 or 40 years.

What's the problem?

41 posted on 03/06/2008 11:07:57 AM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: Camel Joe

So much for theory. Read “Blackhawk Down”. The attackers were hit with multiple .223 rounds from the poodle-shooter and kept coming. The guys shot with the .308 went down and stayed down.


42 posted on 03/06/2008 11:09:50 AM PST by 76Tiger
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To: Red Badger

That lovely AK plywood, yeah. I filled in holes and cracks with JB Weld epoxy.


43 posted on 03/06/2008 11:11:20 AM PST by tumblindice (What would a free man do?)
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To: tumblindice
I was talking about the M-14...............
44 posted on 03/06/2008 11:13:09 AM PST by Red Badger ( We don't have science, but we do have consensus.......)
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To: Southack

See # 30. An interesting take on the situation.


45 posted on 03/06/2008 11:14:44 AM PST by denydenydeny (Expel the priest and you don't inaugurate the age of reason, you get the witch doctor--Paul Johnson)
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To: gandalftb

“”We in the U.S. know that the M-16 is superior to the AK ... it’s more durable,” said Army Col. Stephen Scott,”

LOL.. is that the punchline or the Joke!


46 posted on 03/06/2008 11:15:31 AM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: DoughtyOne

Then go 6.8 for the M-16.


47 posted on 03/06/2008 11:15:38 AM PST by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: Red Badger

Oh. Never mind...


48 posted on 03/06/2008 11:15:42 AM PST by tumblindice (What would a free man do?)
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To: 76Tiger

The Saiga .308 uses 7.62 Nato and can have high capacity magazines, it is made at Izhmash.... same place they make the ak 100 series


49 posted on 03/06/2008 11:16:36 AM PST by MD_Willington_1976
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To: satan
How much is this going to cost us the taxpayers?

Nothing. It's being bought through FMS using Iraq's money.

50 posted on 03/06/2008 11:18:26 AM PST by Allegra (Posting without being logged on since 2001)
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