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FBI director, Mr. Mueller FBI collected personal data improperly using national security letters.
Half Life Source ^ | Mar 6, 2008, 8:11 AM EST | John Lester

Posted on 03/07/2008 3:46:01 PM PST by mad_as_he$$

According to FBI director, Robert Mueller, the FBI collected personal data by improperly using national security letters in 2006. The widespread abuse program to gather confidential data on people in the United States continued into 2006.

Mueller said Wednesday before an oversight hearing by the Senate Judiciary Committee, that breaches of privacy in counter-terror investigations, which were known to have occurred from 2003 through 2005, also occurred in 2006.

A pending report will detail the FBI's continued misuse of national security letters.

The breach occurred in part, by banks, telecommunication companies and other private businesses giving the FBI more personal client data than was requested, according to Mueller.

The FBI's use of the letters has grown dramatically, mainly due to powers granted to the federal law enforcement agency under the USA Patriot Act, an anti-terrorism law Congress approved after the Sept. 11 attacks.

(Excerpt) Read more at halflifesource.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government
KEYWORDS: abuse; fbi; letters; spying
For all of you who want to give the FBI more powers read the article and decided if they can be trusted with your privacy.
1 posted on 03/07/2008 3:46:06 PM PST by mad_as_he$$
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To: mad_as_he$$

Let me just get this straight — Is this the same FBI that thoroughly investigated the downing of TWA flight 800?


2 posted on 03/07/2008 3:50:49 PM PST by Continental Soldier
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To: mad_as_he$$
I can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to think they wouldn't abuse these.


I'm shocked.

3 posted on 03/07/2008 3:50:56 PM PST by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: mgstarr

There are many here on FR who do believe that the FBI does not abuse it’s powers.


4 posted on 03/07/2008 3:52:32 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: mad_as_he$$

I’m not in favor of giving the FBI ever increasing power unless and until they actually demonstrate that they’re sincere about locating, identifying and investigating *serious* threats to our national security.

I could care less about old-as-Hell press releases about D.B. Cooper and other cases that should just be closed as ‘unsolved’, but what the FBI doesn’t seem to understand is that they have finite numbers of employees, even smaller finite number of employees that are capable of studying, comprehending, and taking appropriate action on intercepted communications. Having said that, there are almost an INfinite number of electronic communications that take place each and every day and night, 365 days a year, and it is absolutely impossible to capture and review each and every one of those communications.

They can use word scanners, text sniffers, all sorts of stuff but the bottom line is still that there is too much data, and too few people able to review that data accurately and responsibly.

Iow, the FBI is no different than a tiny little rodent that thinks it’s going to eat an entire elephant.

Even if it can cook the elephant, how long is it going to take to digest the SOB?

I rest my case.


5 posted on 03/07/2008 3:52:42 PM PST by mkjessup (Famous 'Rat Initials: FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ .... to be followed by *B.O.* ?!? - I don't think so!! LOL)
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To: mkjessup
Unless of course you are the innocent bird that gets trapped in the pot with the elephant when they throw it in.
6 posted on 03/07/2008 3:54:27 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Mueller has kept a low profile and very seldom appears in the news or in political discussions. But I must say he seems to have done a LOUSY job. He has done nothing to deal with the chief problem of the FBI: clintonoids and leftists who abuse the rights of citizens but seem to have zero interest in the security of our country.

It is still basically bill & hillary clinton’s FBI, ready and waiting for their return.


7 posted on 03/07/2008 3:55:20 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: mad_as_he$$

Their cognitive functions seem largely dependent upon what party occupies the White House.


8 posted on 03/07/2008 3:55:46 PM PST by mgstarr ("Some of us drink because we're not poets." Arthur (1981))
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To: Cicero

Sad but true. Oddly enough W failed to purge the Clintonistias from our Government but kicked all of the people in Iraq who knew how to run the country out of work.


9 posted on 03/07/2008 3:57:18 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: mad_as_he$$
The breach occurred in part, by banks, telecommunication companies and other private businesses giving the FBI more personal client data than was requested

Ummm... you don't think those institutions are not already selling that data to anyone willing to pay for it?

11 posted on 03/07/2008 3:58:53 PM PST by OCC
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To: mgstarr

Without strict restraint every form of cop Fed, State, or Local. Their only purpose anymore is to further the opression of our government and collect taxes (fines). Not one LE organization in the country is worthy of trust anymore. I fear they will only be reigned in through armed revolt. Elected “leaders” sure as hell aren’t going to do anything but make show on this. See how many hearings this crap gets if Dems control congress and the White House. You haven’t even imagined what abuse can be yet!


12 posted on 03/07/2008 4:00:14 PM PST by American_Centurion (No, I don't trust the government to automatically do the right thing.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
Look, this is no joke, using security letters to get otherwise unobtainable data on people from Banks other than by due process. Due process guarantees that some bank guy won't devulge your commercial secrets to competitors through the FBI for example, or call the IRS because your former employer didn't understand that credit card charge on your expence account?

This Bull $hit has to stop.

One way to stop it is simply to publish a list of names of all those people whose personal information was ILLEGALLY obtained, on the fraudulent basis of national security. Then those responsible need to be placed in jeopardy to pay any damages caused by their illegal actions.

13 posted on 03/07/2008 4:00:34 PM PST by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing.)
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To: mad_as_he$$
The breach occurred in part, by banks, telecommunication companies and other private businesses giving the FBI more personal client data than was requested, according to Mueller.

The above says that it was the banks, telecommunications companies and other private businesses that caused the breach in privacy.

14 posted on 03/07/2008 4:04:26 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: mad_as_he$$

bookmark


15 posted on 03/07/2008 4:05:14 PM PST by traviskicks (http://www.neoperspectives.com/Ron_Paul_2008.htm)
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To: Candor7

I am as serious as you brother.


16 posted on 03/07/2008 4:20:36 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: FreeReign
"The breach occurred in part"

Read closely the Washington speak. "in part" how much 5 -25-50-90% I am willing to bet it is small fraction of the time. Everytime i have asked for data from a bank even with subpoenas they have provided the minimum.

17 posted on 03/07/2008 4:32:06 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: Candor7
This Bull $hit has to stop.

Link

18 posted on 03/07/2008 4:35:09 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: mad_as_he$$
Read closely the Washington speak.

Yes, read closely. That wasn't a direct quote from Mueller. Those were the reporters words.

19 posted on 03/07/2008 4:37:51 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: OCC
The breach occurred in part, by banks, telecommunication companies and other private businesses giving the FBI more personal client data than was requested

But Bush and his cronies want to give them immunity for their crimes. Bush even said he wants to give them immunity for FUTURE crimes.

Then ALL the spy agencies can just claim the mean telecoms "gave us more than we asked for", and everyone is off the hook.

No independent body has done an audit of the FISA wire taps so we have no idea how much those are being abused. But you can bet it is at least as bad as the FBI abuses of the grossly misnamed Patriot Act.

If they weren't being abused, there is no need to change the law, since the 1979 law allows emergency wiretaps to last 15 days before the administration has to report who they tapped and why to the handpicked secret judge.

If they can't justify continued wiretapping they have to stop but they already have 15 days of information. They miss NOTHING because of the law. There is no reason to give them more power.

20 posted on 03/07/2008 4:39:23 PM PST by SUSSA
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To: mad_as_he$$
There are many here on FR who do believe that the FBI does not abuse it’s powers.

I am one of those. I do believe that individual agents have abused their powers, but since Hoover I feel they have gone out of their way - at the expense of good agents' careers - to prevent themselves from being viewed negatively... "PC gone wild" is one way I've heard it described.

The agents I know are good people. I imagine that any organization is bound to have their stars (psssst, and turds).

21 posted on 03/07/2008 5:11:15 PM PST by Toadman ((molon labe))
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To: SUSSA
Do you really think the FBI has the manpower or time to listen in on your phone calls? Every post you make on the internet is recorded somewhere and is wide open to be exploited. I hardly think telecoms giving the Government access to phone lines is a crime. Private citizens tap phone lines all the time without repercussion, just ask John Boehner.
22 posted on 03/07/2008 5:38:12 PM PST by OCC
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To: Toadman
but since Hoover I feel they have gone out of their way - at the expense of good agents' careers - to prevent themselves from being viewed negatively

Tell that to Randy Weaver and his family. But I'm sure glad you feel like they've gone above and beyond.

23 posted on 03/07/2008 5:50:29 PM PST by SwankyC
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To: FreeReign
The testimony is posted yet I checked. I will watch for it Monday to see what he said exactly. Also keep an eye on C-span for it. There is an AP version of the story that uses the same phrase. Maybe lazy reporting but I will keep watching.
24 posted on 03/07/2008 6:49:30 PM PST by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: mad_as_he$$
The testimony is posted yet I checked. I will watch for it Monday to see what he said exactly. Also keep an eye on C-span for it. There is an AP version of the story that uses the same phrase. Maybe lazy reporting but I will keep watching.

Yes, I too looked for a transcript and couldn't find one. Ping me if you see one. Thanks.

25 posted on 03/07/2008 7:10:08 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: Cicero
He has done nothing to deal with the chief problem of the FBI: clintonoids and leftists who abuse the rights of citizens but seem to have zero interest in the security of our country.
26 posted on 03/07/2008 7:19:56 PM PST by AndyJackson
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To: Cicero
He has done nothing to deal with the chief problem of the FBI: clintonoids and leftists who abuse the rights of citizens but seem to have zero interest in the security of our country.

And you think that Bush, Chertoff, TSA, homeland security and Mueller himself are innocent? Government bureaucrats are government bureaucrats and have always been such. Our founding fathers had great fear of them for a reason. The Sandy Burglers and Hillarys are bad enough, but the GS7's hired on a high school equivalency program, who outnumber our famous miscreants 10,000:1 are far far worse a danger.

27 posted on 03/07/2008 7:20:33 PM PST by AndyJackson
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To: AndyJackson

In this imperfect world, I would be somewhat more willing to put up with FBI encroachments on our rights if I thought they were working harder on behalf of our country and protecting us against our enemies.

Law enforcement is always a two-edged sword, and judicial remedies will always be a two-edged sword as well.

Clinton was deliberately malignant in his corruption of the FBI. I think Bush is merely feckless. I don’t think he has deliberately left these clintonoids in place, because they have frequently succeeded in undermining him and his administration. They have cost him a great deal politically.


28 posted on 03/07/2008 7:27:51 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: OCC

Patriots to Restore Checks and Balances are against “The President’s Warrantless Domestic Spying Program” (their words) as well as the most egregious provisions of the grossly misnamed “Patriot” Act. Members include the American Conservative Union, Americans for Tax Reform, American Policy Center, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Free Congress Foundation, Libertarian Party, Gun Owners of America, and the Second Amendment Foundation.

In the Boehner v. McDermott case the Court didn’t say the recording of the conversation didn’t violate federal law. The court only found that McDermott could not be found liable under the Federal Wiretap Act, 18 U.S.C. § 2511(1)(c) and (d) et seq “use and disclosure” prohibition, primarily because McDermott did not act unlawfully when he obtained the illegally recorded tape from the Florida couple, and because the tape was of public importance. The fact that recording the conversation violated federal law was stipulated in the case and the court never said the recording was legal.

The Justice Dept filed charges against John and Alice Martin for recording that call. The Martins were charged with violating federal Communications Privacy Act and agreed to plead guilty and cooperate with investigation into how recording wound up in hands of a reporter.

Neither the Boehner case nor the Bartnicki case made it legal to violate the Federal Wiretap Act, the Communications Privacy Act or the Fourth Amendment. Bush’s insistence that the corporations get immunity makes it clear that he knows they violated the law when they cooperated with the illegal demands of the spy agencies. People and agencies who did nothing wrong don’t need immunity.

I have no problem being in agreement with American Conservative Union, Americans for Tax Reform, Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Free Congress Foundation, Gun Owners of America, and the Second Amendment Foundation against Bush. I sure as hell trust those groups more than him, especially when it comes to protecting the Bill of Rights.

Bush lost all credibility on that score when he signed the McCain/Finegold attack on the First Amendment, which he acknowledged while campaigning that as president he had an duty to veto.

James Madison’s warning is especially relevant to the situation we are in today. He said: “The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home. If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”

A more modern admonition comes from Justice Charles Evans Hughes writing in 1934. “Emergency does not create power. Emergency does not increase granted power or remove or diminish the restrictions imposed upon power granted or reserved. The Constitution was adopted in a period of grave emergency. Its grants of power to the federal government and its limitations of the power of the government were determined in the light of emergency, and they are not altered by emergency.”

We should also heed Justice Louis D. Brandeis wise admonition: “Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government’s purposes are beneficent.”

In the not too distant past, most Americans valued freedom and liberty more than life. That isn’t the case today.

I was in a hotel the night before the start of the Guns Rights Policy Conference when Bush gave his speech announcing creation of the Dept. of Homeland Security and calling for legislation that became the grossly misnamed “Patriot” Act. I watched the speech in the bar.

There was a WWII veterans’ reunion in the hotel at the time and sever of those guys were also in the bar. At one point one of the veterans said we were watching the start of the rapid erosion of our freedoms. A young guy said something about the president had to keep us safe even if we had to give up some freedoms.

One old veteran jumped up and waived a hand with three fingers missing at the young man and said: “I didn’t leave my fingers in France and my brother didn’t die in Italy to keep your sorry ass safe. We did it to keep you FREE!”

I cheered the old man and picked up his bar tab. He understands what America is all about. Unfortunately, except for a young man also there for the GRPC, the people preferring safety to freedom were all younger than 50 and only us older guys preferred freedom to perceived safety. I’m sorry for my grandchildren. They will never know what it is like to live in a free country because we are not leaving them one.


30 posted on 03/08/2008 4:28:36 AM PST by SUSSA
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To: prometheus1982

There are sins of omission and sins of commission. Eight years isn’t a long time in an FBI agent’s career with the Agency. Most of the problems with the FBI are caused by senior agents who run the agency and were appointed by earlier presidents, including Jimmy Carter as well as Clinton. Clinton promoted the ones who were willing to work with him in his corrupt activities.

What Sessions has failed to do is to take back some sort of directing control over the agency—much the same as the better known problem with high-level traitors in the CIA that continually leak to the press and stab Bush in the back.

I don’t excuse Bush. After 8 years he bears a heavy responsibility for letting this sort of treason continue. But it is more a question of his neglecting his duty rather than deliberately bringing about this state of affairs, since it not only hurts the country, it has also hurt him, politically.


31 posted on 03/08/2008 7:59:02 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SwankyC
Sarcasm does not become you FRiend. Sound argument and reasoned judgement does sway me.

I and my FBI friends agree that what happened at Ruby Ridge was a travesty. There can be no reasoned exceptions or "howevers."

Because I'm critical of that eposide (and Waco) does not mean I'm going to ostracize my good friends in the Bureau who -in my experience- have always tried to do what is morally and lawfully right.

32 posted on 03/08/2008 8:43:53 AM PST by Toadman ((molon labe))
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To: FreeReign
Not the Senate but a very interesting Presser.

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel07/nsl_transcript030907.htm

33 posted on 03/09/2008 8:00:28 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: Toadman
I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm happy that you have friends on the inside, but that still doesn't mean trash when you try to tell us that the FBI polices itself - clearly they dont. I doubt anyone here will buy that bridge to nowhere.

Ask your friends how Hillary got ahold of, and misused, several hundred FBI files on her political enemies without someone in the FBI coming forward.

34 posted on 03/10/2008 8:20:09 AM PDT by SwankyC
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To: SwankyC
Ask your friends how Hillary got a hold of, and misused, several hundred FBI files on her political enemies without someone in the FBI coming forward.

Who said it wasn't an anonymous agent that let on the the fact that the Clintons were file checking? (I don't know how it was exposed).

My only argument with you is that you seem to be willing to condemn the entire organization as some evil entity because of the actions of a few agents. Imagine you applied the same criteria to the U.S. Military!? I can only base my opinions on the personal interactions I have had. I realize I won't sway your opinion and I'll respect them. However I'm not changing mine either FRiend.

35 posted on 03/11/2008 4:30:05 AM PDT by Toadman ((molon labe))
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To: Toadman
because of the actions of a few agents.

No, I condemn the agency because of an entire pattern of abuse

36 posted on 03/11/2008 8:09:53 AM PDT by SwankyC
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To: SwankyC
Then you condemn every organization in our government because one can site examples of abuse in every organization. BATF, DOJ, Military, Presidents, Congress. You name it and with a little research, I can find a reason to condemn them because of "patterns" of abuse. From single individuals to entire offices.

Like I said, I don't expect to change your mind.

37 posted on 03/11/2008 9:47:59 AM PDT by Toadman ((molon labe))
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