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Plastic Bags Evil? Think Again, Some Scientists Say [bad science leading to bad decisions...]
Fox News ^

Posted on 03/08/2008 1:48:05 PM PST by Sub-Driver

Plastic Bags Evil? Think Again, Some Scientists Say

Saturday , March 08, 2008

Scientists and environmentalists have attacked a global campaign to ban plastic bags that they say is based on flawed science and exaggerated claims.

The widely stated accusation that the bags kill 100,000 animals and a million seabirds every year are false, experts have told The Times of London. They pose only a minimal threat to most marine species, including seals, whales, dolphins and seabirds.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced last month that he would force supermarkets to charge for the bags, saying that they were “one of the most visible symbols of environmental waste.”

Retailers and some pressure groups, including the Campaign to Protect Rural England, threw their support behind him, and similar movements have spread across the United States.

But scientists, politicians and marine experts attacked the British government for joining a “bandwagon” based on poor science.

“The Government is irresponsible to jump on a bandwagon that has no base in scientific evidence," said Lord Taverne, the chairman of Sense about Science. "This is one of many examples where you get bad science leading to bad decisions which are counter-productive. Attacking plastic bags makes people feel good but it doesn’t achieve anything.”

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: debunk; junkscience; plasticbags
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"Attacking plastic bags makes people feel good but it doesn’t achieve anything.”.....well that sums it up
1 posted on 03/08/2008 1:48:06 PM PST by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver

for the love of pete. the enviropolice just made us switch to plastice 20 years ago. Now we have to switch back?


2 posted on 03/08/2008 1:49:26 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (dehumanize: the model prescribes the required behavior. disincentives ensure compliance.)
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To: the invisib1e hand

Don’t ask for a plastic bag at Whole Foods - they cut down trees to hold your groceries.


3 posted on 03/08/2008 1:52:15 PM PST by HardStarboard (Take No Prisoners - We're Out Of Qurans)
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To: Sub-Driver

Even if they charge 5 or 10 cents per bag it will barely change the price of a bag of groceries - so I wouldn’t care.

But if they charge much more than their cost, I’d change grocery stores on principle.


4 posted on 03/08/2008 1:56:03 PM PST by gondramB (Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary, use words.)
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To: Sub-Driver

Yes, but it’s possible that they could, under the right circumstances, possibly hurt some animal somewhere, especially those that can’t read the warnings not to put the bag over your head. So obviously we must ban them to mitigate the potential harm.


5 posted on 03/08/2008 1:56:28 PM PST by kaehurowing
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To: HardStarboard

I just tell them to bag my groceries in whatever is politically correct that week. I’ve gotten some cranky looks. I refuse to bring in my own bag. yuk. somehow it seems unhealthy and unsanitary to reuse the same bag over and over for groceries. germs, roaches, etc. yuk.


6 posted on 03/08/2008 1:56:47 PM PST by Mercat (To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8)
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To: Sub-Driver
"This is one of many examples where you get bad science leading to bad decisions which are counter-productive.

That about says it all. The examples that could be given run the whole spectrum of laws Congress here, in the UK, UN, and all over the world. Today, the make an issue their own, and jockey the science to fit their wishes on the issue. From global warming, to social engineering.

7 posted on 03/08/2008 1:59:13 PM PST by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: Mercat

Years ago ma would send me to the store with a grocery cart and a list, worked out pretty good.


8 posted on 03/08/2008 2:00:29 PM PST by silentreignofheroes (I'm Southron,,and I Vote..,..)
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To: Sub-Driver
In San Francisco, they've banned supermarkets from bagging in plastic bags. I used to re-use them as small garbage bags, bags for disposing of used cat litter, etc.

So now, I *buy* plastic bags at Safeway for garbage disposal, and they place the package of plastic bags in a paper bag at the checkout counter :-/

9 posted on 03/08/2008 2:01:06 PM PST by NMR Guy
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To: HardStarboard
Don’t ask for a plastic bag at Whole Foods - they cut down trees to hold your groceries.

That's OK, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do of catching me in a whole foods, a bmw, a starbucks, timberland boots, or with an iPhone.

10 posted on 03/08/2008 2:03:07 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (dehumanize: the model prescribes the required behavior. disincentives ensure compliance.)
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To: silentreignofheroes

Yes, then they invented cars and the whole world went to heck.
:-) Sorry, I find the whole topic funny.


11 posted on 03/08/2008 2:05:39 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
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To: NMR Guy
<... they place the package of plastic bags in a paper bag at the checkout counter :-/

Wow...someone actually bags your groceries?! I'm lucky if there is a bagger 1 in 5 times.

12 posted on 03/08/2008 2:08:27 PM PST by tsmith130
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To: HardStarboard
"Don’t ask for a plastic bag at Whole Foods - they cut down trees to hold your groceries."

Actually, we prefer paper bags. They hold more and we deposit burnable trash in them. (We live rural.) When we go to the incinerator we do a little incantation before ignition. It goes something like "F--- you Al Gore. F--- you Al Gore." We then ignite the fire and circle the incinerator while doing a little dance. Thus far, the response has been good and the Gods have smiled on us.

13 posted on 03/08/2008 2:09:14 PM PST by davisfh (Islam is a mental illness)
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To: IrishCatholic

:-) Sorry, I find the whole topic funny.

Got that right


14 posted on 03/08/2008 2:11:17 PM PST by silentreignofheroes (I'm Southron,,and I Vote..,..)
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To: Sub-Driver
I slipped on the ice today - fortunately, no spill this time, but had some nasty ones in the past.

and my neighbor slipped on the ice this week and cracked his ribs and injured his hand.

BAN ICE!

c’mon gore - you promised...

15 posted on 03/08/2008 2:11:45 PM PST by maine-iac7 (",,,but you can't fool all of the people all the time" LINCOLN)
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To: Sub-Driver

I’ve started using my own bags for groceries rather than using plastic bags from the store—or I ask for paper bags. They will recycle the paper bags. Or you can use them to wrap presents—I’ve done that before. Just wrap the present and then use a rubber stamp to put interesting designs (x-mas, b-day, etc.) on them.

Around here, you can’t throw the plastic bags in the recycle can with your other recyclables so you end up stockpiling them and unless you have a herd of cats to clean up after, you aren’t ever going to use them up.


16 posted on 03/08/2008 2:22:53 PM PST by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one recipe at a time http://www.youtube.com/Tamar1973)
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To: davisfh

Omigosh - Frank Costanza, is that you?


17 posted on 03/08/2008 2:25:22 PM PST by Inspectorette
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To: davisfh

Buy it here

18 posted on 03/08/2008 2:29:12 PM PST by Tamar1973 (Riding the Korean Wave, one recipe at a time http://www.youtube.com/Tamar1973)
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To: Sub-Driver; Soaring Feather; MEG33; RottiBiz; laurenmarlowe; TASMANIANRED; Allegra; ...
Paper bags are the best way to bring cockroaches into your homes.

Do not use paper bags. Think of paper chomping cockroaches in large dark warehouses just sitting in bags waiting for you to take them home. It happens.


19 posted on 03/08/2008 2:31:05 PM PST by Lady Jag (If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you)
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To: Sub-Driver

Conn state assembly is considering the same.

But that shouldn’t surprise anyone given these people were elected by the same people that have had Chris Dodd never work a day in his life.


20 posted on 03/08/2008 2:31:41 PM PST by bluedressman
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To: the invisib1e hand

What about a subaru legacy, an ipod, crocs, birkenstocks, doc martens, old navy, hollister, tommy hilfiger, malcom X hats, dreadlocks, elton john glasses, rastafarian/bob marley hats, lowrider jeans, micheal jordan shoes, vans(shoes), converse all-stars, guess clothes?


21 posted on 03/08/2008 2:35:34 PM PST by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: mamelukesabre
my best friend gave me Tommy cologne, and I like it alot. I'm guilty of that. I also owned a subaru in college. It was a disaster, but it wouldn't quit, though it often ran on only 3 of its four cylinders. I was impressed by the fact that I could lift the engine myself (it's tiny), but eventually got very tired of having to do so to keep it running.

I actually towed it to the dealer when I traded it in on my first Ford pickup, back in the day.

It's trendiness that repulses me.

Some of those products might be just fine, maybe even excellent (I do own a shuffle, although it's broken). Trendiness and the holier-than-though marketing really turn me off.

22 posted on 03/08/2008 2:43:05 PM PST by the invisib1e hand (dehumanize: the model prescribes the required behavior. disincentives ensure compliance.)
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To: Sub-Driver

I saw a stupid story on the BBC about how they are starting to charge green fees for plastic bags at some stores. It always amazes me the targets that the left wish to fight. Let us fight global warming which is ambiguous but not fight global terrorism which is demonstrated on a regular basis. Let us not fight crime because we all know criminals are the result of a hard luck life but instead fight plastic bags. Let us not fight educational ignorance and failure but instead fight the incandescent bulb and send our gullible children out to encourage people to replace their harmless light bulbs with ones filled with mercury gas.

The left is a faithless misanthropic monster bent on busy bodying the rest of us till no end. They are the first to rush out with unproven or end of the world claims only to be rebuked by nature/the hand of God when the hurricanes and warming do no materialize.

So now the fools who called the alarm for warming and see it everywhere are emboldened. Facts and details are only import to those who wish to be correct. Those who are driven by feelings and an internalized hatred of their very humanity should confiscate a plastic bag and stick their head in it. It would solve their problem and the rest of us could live happier lives for it.


23 posted on 03/08/2008 2:43:19 PM PST by Maelstorm (Heroism is something that when it is manifest it is undeniable. The same can be said for cowardice.)
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To: Sub-Driver; potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; MeekOneGOP


24 posted on 03/08/2008 2:46:30 PM PST by devolve (------- --------Bob Dole without the honesty? ---------------That`s a tired old idea!)
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To: Tamar1973

Our grocery store recycles the plastic bags.

I’ve compromised; I bought a few of the cloth bags to take to the store with me. They’re nice and sturdy, and I get a 5 cent credit for each bag.


25 posted on 03/08/2008 2:47:31 PM PST by SandyInSeattle (Some people are like slinkys, the idea of them tumbling down a flight of stairs makes you smile.)
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To: silentreignofheroes

” Years ago ma would send me to the store with a grocery cart “

I hope you kept taking it back to the same store.


26 posted on 03/08/2008 2:47:54 PM PST by brooklin
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To: brooklin

You know , they never missed it.


27 posted on 03/08/2008 3:01:38 PM PST by silentreignofheroes (I'm Southron,,and I Vote..,..)
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To: Sub-Driver

What will my Walmart Grocery Store use? They don’t even have paper bags.

I like paper in plastic - it is stronger and I use them as trash bags later.


28 posted on 03/08/2008 3:15:13 PM PST by peggybac (Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing)
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To: davisfh

We have a little farm and burn stuff including my old files, five years old and older. My son who is a big environment person wanted to give us grief about the burn thing but we talked about landfill, the energy expended for the truck to pick up the files and shred them etc etc and he ended up agreeing that a small fire in the Kansas countryside probably created a smaller “carbon footprint.”


29 posted on 03/08/2008 3:44:51 PM PST by Mercat (To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8)
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To: davisfh
>>>We then ignite the fire and circle the incinerator while doing a little dance.<<<

Being a city dweller, I dont have an incinerator. I do use paper bags to lightfires in my wood stove - but that's only two or three nights a week during the winter.

I use the plastic bags for garbage bags on my boat and if I've got too many, they recycle nicely.

My basic problem is Government and Environment Weenies making decisions for me. Think I'll start taking some of used WholeFoods bags to the store to re-use them again. They'll probably refuse to fill them. Idiots....LOL

30 posted on 03/08/2008 3:56:16 PM PST by HardStarboard (Take No Prisoners - We're Out Of Qurans)
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To: Lady Jag

Where I shop there are three options, bring your own bags, or one can buy either paper bags @.05 each, or large heavy plastic bags for a dime.

I take my own bags, both paper and plastic.


31 posted on 03/08/2008 4:04:08 PM PST by Soaring Feather (I soar- 'cause I can....)
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To: Mercat

So you never wear the same clothes twice either?

What silly thinking. Do you think that the grocery bag will do, hide some eeeevil bacteria where the washing machine can’t get it out?

While not as convenient, cloth bags make sense in the long run. I’ve switched except when I forget mine. The bags live under the front seat in a plastic box now. If nothing leaks, and it was dry taking in the groceries, the bags just go back in the box. Otherwise it’s a trip through the washer, then back in the car.


32 posted on 03/08/2008 4:05:07 PM PST by Don W (Vote YOUR Honor, or it could become: Vote, your Honor.....)
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To: Don W

I use the cloth bags as well. Not for the environment but because my Swiss blood won’t let me waste anything! I swear it’s a compulsion.


33 posted on 03/08/2008 4:19:50 PM PST by stentorian conservative (Ignore Napolean's Dogs. . . Vote your conscience.)
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To: Sub-Driver

I would think enviros would love plastic bags if they are landfilled. They are made from oil and their carbon is not released into the atmosphere.


34 posted on 03/08/2008 4:21:36 PM PST by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: Sub-Driver

>> saying that they were “one of the most visible symbols of environmental waste.”

Got me. I always thought it was politicians.


35 posted on 03/08/2008 4:23:12 PM PST by Gene Eric
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To: Mercat
somehow it seems unhealthy and unsanitary to reuse the same bag over and over for groceries. germs, roaches, etc. yuk.

Well, don't carry your germs and roaches in the same bag as your groceries.

36 posted on 03/08/2008 4:26:26 PM PST by Richard Kimball (Sure, they'd love to kill me, as long as they can do it without admitting I exist)
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To: Lady Jag; devolve

Thanks for the ping.

Lol, I kinda like the paper bags LJ. I have used them for wrapping things to mail and even some nice gift shops now use brown paper and colorful ribbons to gift wrap.


37 posted on 03/08/2008 4:30:33 PM PST by potlatch
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To: devolve

38 posted on 03/08/2008 4:31:55 PM PST by potlatch
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To: davisfh

Paper, plastic, it all burns in my incinerator. You should only burn used tires at night though, otherwise that thick cloud of black smoke will bring every envirowienie for miles to protest and leave garbage all over the place.


39 posted on 03/08/2008 4:39:45 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Mercat

Carbon isn’t a pollutant.


40 posted on 03/08/2008 4:47:53 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Don W
"While not as convenient, cloth bags make sense in the long run. I’ve switched except when I forget mine. The bags live under the front seat in a plastic box now. If nothing leaks, and it was dry taking in the groceries, the bags just go back in the box. Otherwise it’s a trip through the washer, then back in the car."

Your not saving anything. The cost of the electricity, plus the "carbon footprint" making that electricity to heat your watr, run the washing machine, and run the dryer is far greater than what ever threat a few dozen plastic bags are.

And lets not forget all the water you ruin in the river, lake or sea your waste wash water and all that phosphorus from the laundry detergent is dumped into.

41 posted on 03/08/2008 4:54:54 PM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: davisfh

...and like Pharoh in the ten commandments, he’s going to end up saying,”their G_D is G_d”. Then brother Al will spontaneously combust releasing even more C02 into the gore-o-sphere.


42 posted on 03/08/2008 4:58:26 PM PST by Lx ((Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.))
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To: Lady Jag; tomkow6; All

Well Sunday UK Observer report that Brits may have found their MOLE on who busted Prince Harry undercover in Aghatarion report is turn out be another BRIT SOLDIER WHO was jealous Harry was stationed in Aghagtarion

HUH

Report is that Brit soldier who happen to be Colonal didn’t want Harry be there

WHAT i don’t get that


43 posted on 03/08/2008 5:16:49 PM PST by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: Nathan Zachary
Your (sic) not saving anything. The cost of the electricity, plus the "carbon footprint" making that electricity to heat your watr, run the washing machine, and run the dryer is far greater than what ever...

The bags get washed ONLY if they're dirty, with other stuff that is being washed anyway, I only use the dryer in the winter, and my electricity is 85% hydroelectric.

I'm not the least bit concerned about glow-bull warming, I'm CHEAP! As for the "polluting the sea" nonsense, grow up and look at the literally doaens of studies done that show LESS effect from our screened outfalls here vs full tertiary treatment.

44 posted on 03/08/2008 5:42:31 PM PST by Don W (Vote YOUR Honor, or it could become: Vote, your Honor.....)
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To: SevenofNine
      Jealous?

45 posted on 03/08/2008 5:42:43 PM PST by Lady Jag (If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you)
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To: Don W

Oh, and it’s phosPHATES, not phosphorus. PhosPHATES are PLANT FOOD, JUST LIKE (oh nooos!) Carbon Dioxide!.


46 posted on 03/08/2008 5:44:25 PM PST by Don W (Vote YOUR Honor, or it could become: Vote, your Honor.....)
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To: potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; MeekOneGOP

.

Nothing wrong with algore’s executive jet and SUV-limos a bit of sugar in the gas tank and an icepick in all four tires won’t cure

That and cutting off his $1,200+/month electric bill power service in his Tennessee mansion

Where is ELF when they should be saving the planet from crooked politians and other scammers?


47 posted on 03/08/2008 6:28:36 PM PST by devolve (------- --------Bob Dole without the honesty? ---------------That`s a tired old idea!)
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To: Sub-Driver

Liberalism in a nutshell. But it needs a little clarification. It never achieves the intended result, but it often has unintended consequences that are worse than the problem that prompted the action. True whether you’re copying Pol Pot and killing off all of the bourgeoisie medical doctors in your country or campaigning for everyone to rinse out their beer bottles before they dispose of them so not to poison the snails.


48 posted on 03/08/2008 7:28:08 PM PST by dr_who
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To: devolve
Lol, "They're Coming To Take You Away" ah huh!!!


49 posted on 03/08/2008 8:38:36 PM PST by potlatch
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To: potlatch

.

LOL!

That’s a great gif!


50 posted on 03/08/2008 8:49:14 PM PST by devolve (------- --------Bob Dole without the honesty? ---------------That`s a tired old idea!)
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