F-117 Stealth Fighter to Be Retired

AP ^ | March 11, 2008 | JAMES HANNAH

[Joiseydude]

DAYTON, Ohio (AP) - The world's first attack aircraft to employ stealth technology is slipping quietly into history.

The inky black, angular, radar-evading F-117, which spent 27 years in the Air Force arsenal secretly patrolling hostile skies from Serbia to Iraq, will be put in mothballs next month in Nevada.

Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, which manages the F-117 program, will have an informal, private retirement ceremony Tuesday with military leaders, base employees and representatives from Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico.

[Resolute Conservative]

I wonder what has replaced it that we have not seen yet?

[ArrogantBustard]

F-22 Raptor is replacing it ...

Of course, there may be other things as well.

[elhombrelibre]

F22.

[jerod]

Is this retirement of all F-117 Fighters, or ‘a’ F-117 fighter?

[Mr. K]

wow- if they are retiring this amazing aircraft just imagine what it’s replacement must be like...

I had read something a while back that this aircraft was so invisible that someone had found a way to detect it by scanning the sky for somethign that was NOT there (i.e. background noise being blocked by ‘something’ invisible)

pretty clever

[Alex Murphy]

The inky black, angular, radar-evading F-117, which spent 27 years in the Air Force arsenal secretly patrolling hostile skies from Serbia to Iraq, will be put in mothballs next month in Nevada.

Ping for later

[Joiseydude]

All F-117’s

[ArrogantBustard]

Come back after the conspiracy nuts have shown up.

[MrB]

Read “Skunkworks”. Really cool stuff. This was pre-F117 days.

One of the funny things was finding dead bats in the F-117 hanger - guess why.

[Joiseydude]

Because the F-117’s were even invisible to the bats.

[RobRoy]

>>Of course, there may be other things as well.<<

Yes. They are all disk or “cigar” shaped.

[Resolute Conservative]

The F-22 was designed in the late 80’2 and 90’s and we have seen it for many years. I wonder what is being designed in the last few years that is flying out of Groom Lake and other areas that we haven’t seen yet.

[MrB]

“Invisible” in that the bats’ sonar was not reflected back to them so that they could get an accurate echo.

[varyouga]

Making room for the F22 and F35.

The F117 was designed before stealth was possible with curved aircraft.

The new fighters are more aerodynamic and just as stealthy thanks to computerized design and manufacturing.

[RobRoy]

I assume that is a joke?

Or are you implying that F117’s don’t reflect sound?

[varyouga]

I had read something a while back that this aircraft was so invisible that someone had found a way to detect it by scanning the sky for somethign that was NOT there (i.e. background noise being blocked by ‘something’ invisible)

Don't forget that one was shot down and probably looked at by our enemies. They could have tuned their radars just to detect it's signature.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason for retiring it.

[Red6]

People think it's all dreamed up, but our DoD really does have secret programs to which the F117 belonged for a long time. Even in the Army (Far less high tech) all sort of “who knew we had this” things and gadgets appeared in 2003.

[Red6]

All - this has been planned for years.

[SampleMan]

I wonder what has replaced it that we have not seen yet?

You've seen it. The B-2, JSF, and the F-22. Along with stand-off precision weapons.

[MrB]

The way the f117 is stealthy is the REDIRECTION of the reflection.

Yes, it reflects sound, and it reflects radar, but just not back to the source.

That’s why it has all those funky angular planes on it. In the book “Skunkworks”, they said it was ironic that the math/geometry behind this approach has been around for a LONG time, and was discovered by a Russian mathematician.

[Rummenigge]

There’s not much space needed - the F22 should have replaced all of the aging and brittle F-15 - now that there isn’t enough funds to even buy a third of what is needed...

and the F-35 - who knows if and when...

[massgopguy]

I remember buying a model of it on September 26, 1985 in Harold Fuchs Hobby Shop while we were still denying their existence. What does the F-117 and an Ovation Guitar have in common.

[blam]

I remember when Jimmie Carter revealed the existence of stealth aircraft. (Stupid POS!)

[SampleMan]

Or are you implying that F117’s don’t reflect sound?

I doubt they reflect much sound back to the source. Propagation is propagation.

[taxcontrol]

Dont tell me that they would fly into the F-117s because their sonar wouldn't bounce back!

[Resolute Conservative]

The F-117 was flying a decade before we ever saw it. There are things in development we won’t see for another decade.

[BullDog108]

Here is a recently unclassified photo of the F-117's replacement, the F-22:

;^)

[Polybius]

I wonder what has replaced it that we have not seen yet?

[MrB]

Yeppers.

The sonar bounced, but not “back”, effectively fooling the bat into assuming there was nothing there to reflect off.

[varyouga]

The F35 was designed as a future low-cost and more versatile alternative to the F22.

I'm not sure how successful they were in keeping manufacturing costs down. Most of the cost is research so building many of them would drop the unit price significantly.

[Portcall24]

My best friend’s wife has an American flag that was in the cockpit during the first public flight of this airplane. The late BG Tony Tolin was both the vice commander and commander, 4450th Tactical Group, 37th Tactical Fighter Wing, Tonopah Test Range, Nev. July 1987 - August 1990 and made the flight and gave it to the couple out of friendship.

[taxcontrol]

Wow, now the “sick” side of me wants to see that on video. Quite concisely states the problem with over reliance on one system, wouldn’t you say?

[RobRoy]

>>What does the F-117 and an Ovation Guitar have in common.<<

Got me. What?

[stainlessbanner]

What does the F-117 and an Ovation Guitar have in common

Neither can fly straight w/out a lot of help.

[Resolute Conservative]

Kelly Johnson and those guys were awesome engineers and “out of the box” thinkers. Going to be hard if not impossible to replace them as the retire and/or pass.

[SampleMan]

The F-117 was flying a decade before we ever saw it. There are things in development we won’t see for another decade.

The F-117 is being retired because it is old, expensive to maintain, and inferior to the JSF. It never had any air-air capability, which was a drawback.

Most programs are generally in the open, with certain aspects kept secret. e.g. the B-2 and F-22. Only a very few become operational without general knowledge, e.g. the U-2 and the F-117.

But its fun to speculate. Perhaps we captured a Klingon cloaking device ;-)

[RobRoy]

Well that is just confusing. Radar doesn’t bounce off a piece of paper but sound does. And if you hang a piece of paper or steel in the air at a 45 degree to a bat’s travel, he will still “see” it.

A thing can absorb radar but not sound, just as a thing can stop light but not x-rays.

[Portcall24]

People would never believe how far that airplane was flown under the cover of darkness.

[Renfield]

"....I wonder what is being designed in the last few years that is flying out of Groom Lake and other areas that we haven’t seen yet...."

Hmmmm.....something like these, maybe?

[papasmurf]

They would have enough to fund 5 more F22’s if Clinton, and his RINO kiss-butts, had closed down a pork barrel AFB instead of George, IMO.

[stainlessbanner]

FR Foxhole Profiles: Kelly Johnson

"Be Quick, Be Quiet, And Be On Time"

[Rummenigge]

if it WAS possible to cut all the bacon - wich country wouldn’t be much better of ?

I guess the US are still a good example in that book.

[Niteranger68]

I like the story that they gave it the “F” (fighter) designation in order to attract the best pilots who didn’t want to fly “B’s” (bombers) which is what the F-117 actually is.

[mad_as_he$$]

Groom lake is shut down for aircraft development. They have moved to Utah and White Sands.

[RetiredArmy]

Now that’s funny right there.

[Tallguy]

They’ve been retiring F-177’s for some time now. This is apparently the last one.

[Tallguy]

Deflecting sound waves was kind of a side property (though Stealth is more than just RADAR observability). The dead bats suggested that a similar approach would be possible to defeat SONAR. Lockheed built the SEA SHADOW as a proof of concept. So far as we know, it never went further than that.

[Stonewall Jackson]

[RobRoy]

So the implication then is that the dead bat thing is legit?