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No US consideration of Serbian sacrifice
New Europe ^ | March 10, 2008 | Wes Johnson

Posted on 03/14/2008 4:48:04 PM PDT by Bokababe

Today there seems to be little if any national memory of history to influence the foreign policy of the American super-power – merely what appears to be the most expedient at the moment, whether it conforms to international law and a United Nations organization established to act as a moderating force among nations, or not.

How else to view Washington’s latest project to foist a second Albanian state on the international community: Kosovo, which has been torn out of Serbian territory rich in historic meaning and tradition to a Slav Orthodox Christian people who consider it to be the very heart of their ancient patrimony?

Consider for a moment this small nation, that in World War I, was attacked by Austria, Germany, and then Bulgaria, that fought with the Allies against the Central Powers bravely and brilliantly against overwhelming odds; that at the end of that conflict had lost 1,264,000 people out of a population of 4,529,000 – a quarter of its total.

Then, again in World War II, the Serbians stood with the Allies and formed the backbone of Tito’s Partisan guerrillas. Dozens of German, Italian and Bulgarian divisions were tied down fighting Tito’s forces throughout the war. Including genocide against the Serbians in Bosnia by the Croat Ustashe – and similar depredations by the Albanians in Kosovo who had been formed into a SS unit by the Germans – Yugoslavia lost 1,700,000 people.

During that conflict, Mihailovich and Tito both had collaborated with the British Special Operations Executive and the American Office of Strategic Services. Additionally, 512 downed Americans and 84 British and Canadian airmen were sheltered and rescued mainly by Serbian villagers at the grave risk of their own lives.

After Tito broke with Stalin in 1948, Yugoslavia remained Communist; but it insisted on its independence along its road of post-war reconstruction toward achieving socialism. At various times it accepted material support, including even some military assistance, along with financial aid through international loans from the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. It was one of the first charter members of the United Nations.

The US had even tolerated Yugoslavia’s leading role in the Non-Aligned Movement knowing that, if it had to, Belgrade would fight the Soviet Union and its satellites.

In NATO circles, a commonly-accepted scenario for the start of World War III had the Soviet Union attempting to overthrow Tito. Much of the Yugoslav National Army’s own planning revolved around that threat possibility. Even as late as 1980, when Tito died, some thought that Moscow might attempt to force the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia into conformity with the Bloc.

It’s true that at the end of World War II Tito suppressed remnants of fascist Albanian groups in Kosovo in months of fighting. He subsequently built up a loyal Albanian Communist party structure that had considerable leeway – rewarding it with provincial autonomy.

In 1974, Kosovo’s autonomy was widened even more by the SFRY’s new constitution – and Albanian leaders began the long process of discriminating openly against its Serb population. Many Serbs moved out as more and more Albanians moved in. By 1981, a year after Tito’s death, students began to protest against conditions at their university and the lack of job opportunity.

When Milosevic attempted to re-integrate Kosovo into Serbia in the late 1980s, the province was financially bankrupt. Its Albanian leadership disadvantaged the Serbs while failing its own people. Oppositionists led by Ibrahim Rugova declared themselves to be a “Republic” of virtual “independence.”

No Americans had even heard of Kosovo except for Senator Robert Dole and a few congressmen who began to rant against Milosevic; fueled, some say, by Albanian “contributions” to their US political campaigns.

Kosovar separatism was indeed repressed!!!

By 1997, armed Albanians were conducting pinprick attacks against Serb police and militia outposts. A year later, the Kosovo Liberation Army was in open revolt and had seized control of almost half of the province. Milosevic, in turn, fended off western criticism and began to roll up the KLA. NATO, ordered by US President Clinton and UK Prime Minister Blair, in effect intervened on behalf of the KLA; and, in a devastating bombing campaign, forced Milosevic to pull his Yugoslav forces out of the province.

What has followed has been years of NATO-UN Mission in Kosovo bureaucratically- administered failure – during which hundreds of Serbs were murdered and some 200,000 left the province for good. For this, and the threat to take up arms again, the Albanians have been rewarded with independence. The UN, the EU, and NATO have been intimidated by the threat of renewed conflict.

So what kind of state might we expect from a poverty-stricken entity known to be a center of narcotics trafficking?

Popular ex-Prime Minister Ramush Haradinaj is now on trial at The Hague for war crimes committed during the 1998-99 conflict.

The present Prime Minister, Hisham Thaci (a favorite of ex- US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright) has been accused of having ordered the murder of several KLA rivals during that same conflict. He now presides over a country with a 50 percent unemployment rate and rampant corruption.

The US, opportunistically, has called for a donor’s conference to help fund the country’s near empty budget and is turning “supervision” of Kosovo over to the EU It has need for its troops elsewhere.

Many say that an independent Kosovo will set an unfortunate precedent and feed separatist movements around the globe.

The Bosnian Serbs are already saying that they should be permitted to join Serbia. Armenians also point to Kosovo and claim that their ethnically Armenian enclave in Azerbaijan – Nagorno-Karabakh - should be given international recognition. Even Russia, which must feel that Washington has tossed a delayed action cluster bomb into its backyard, might be tempted to support the breakaway tendencies of ethnic-Russians in Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia, a NATO aspirant and the transit site of a strategic petroleum pipeline out of the Caspian Basin.

However, the fact that Russia recently fought a barely-resolved war to keep Chechnya may stay its hand.

Moscow has not been reluctant to back Serbia on Kosovo and says it will deny it UN membership. Russia also reminded us that it is back in the Balkans by recently signing agreements for Gazprom to purchase Serbia’s NIS Petroleum and Srbijagas natural gas monopolies and to bring its South Stream natural gas pipeline through that country en route to Western Europe. Senior US officials continue to criticize Gazprom’s rapid expansion and have made it clear they consider South Stream to be an unwelcome competitor to the EU’s planned Nabucco pipeline.

Future historians may very well conclude that an important ingredient to the many “Wars of Yugoslavian Succession” was for control of energy avenues from the Caspian out to the west.

The many sacrifices made by Serbians on the battlefields of the past have been forgotten.

Wes Johnson is the author of Balkan Inferno: Betrayal, War, and Intervention 1990-2005.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: albania; appeasement; balkans; dhimmitude; illegalimmigrants; islamofascists; jihad; kosovo; mohammedanism; serbia; wrongside
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1 posted on 03/14/2008 4:48:06 PM PDT by Bokababe
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; vooch; ...

2 posted on 03/14/2008 4:49:36 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: All

bump


3 posted on 03/14/2008 4:59:46 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Bokababe

Sadly, the USA has demonstrated that it is now an enemy of the Serbs and a friend, quizzically, to the Al Qaeda loving Albanian muslims who are working hard to create an Albanian empire in the Balkans.


4 posted on 03/14/2008 5:02:21 PM PDT by PeterFinn (I am not voting for McCain. No way, no how.)
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To: Bokababe

Carter blundered badly in Iran.

Clinton blundered badly in Kosovo.

The Russians are actually on the right side for once.


5 posted on 03/14/2008 5:11:03 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: samtheman
Clinton blundered badly in Kosovo.

Bush blundered badly following Clinton.

6 posted on 03/14/2008 5:36:40 PM PDT by Anticommie
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To: Bokababe

btt


7 posted on 03/14/2008 8:17:58 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: Bokababe
Then, again in World War II, the Serbians stood with the Allies and formed the backbone of Tito’s Partisan guerrillas. Dozens of German, Italian and Bulgarian divisions were tied down fighting Tito’s forces throughout the war. Including genocide against the Serbians in Bosnia by the Croat Ustashe – and similar depredations by the Albanians in Kosovo who had been formed into a SS unit by the Germans – Yugoslavia lost 1,700,000 people.

Actually the real death toll was 1.014 million...the communists inflated the death toll in order to get more reparations from the Germans.

As for the Serbs during WW2, more fought on the side of the Axis until roughly late 1943 when Serbs began to desert the Royalist Chetniks and join Tito's Communist Partisans.

8 posted on 03/14/2008 9:35:19 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian
Darn, hit the wrong button and it was sent. My reply was this:

Actually the real death toll was 1.014 million...the communists inflated the death toll in order to get more reparations from the Germans. As for the Serbs during WW2, more fought on the side of the Axis until roughly late 1943 when Serbs began to desert the Royalist Chetniks and join Tito's Communist Partisans.

9 posted on 03/14/2008 9:36:12 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: PeterFinn

The Albanians have no love for al-Qaida.


10 posted on 03/14/2008 9:36:48 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian
"As for the Serbs during WW2, more fought on the side of the Axis until roughly late 1943 when Serbs began to desert the Royalist Chetniks and join Tito's Communist Partisans.

Peddle your revisionist history somewhere else, Dio. That's complete crap and you know it.

11 posted on 03/14/2008 11:44:58 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

Once again I present my challenge to anyone here (or elsewhere) to debate the matter. So far, every Serb on FR has chickened out.


12 posted on 03/15/2008 2:51:57 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian
"The Albanians have no love for al-Qaida."

Yes, neither did the "poor Bosnian Muslims" -- they were all supposedly"peace-loving secular Muslims" -- or so the combined PR lies went. Then several of the 9/11 hijackers came out of Bosnia, then new suicide bombers out of Bosnia. Today, terrorism experts are pretty well agreed that Bosnia is a hub of al Qaeda actitivity.

After four of the Fort Dix Six were identified as Kosovo and Macedonian Albanian Muslims, you've got a pretty hard sell on the idea that "there are no Albanian al Qaeda".

13 posted on 03/15/2008 10:52:36 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Diocletian
"Once again I present my challenge to anyone here (or elsewhere) to debate the matter. So far, every Serb on FR has chickened out."

Not "chickened out", just bored with rehashing your nonsense Tudjman historical revisionism over and over. Can't hide the fact that the Croat Ustase were alled with Nazi Germany, so you want to drag the Serbs into the toilet with you.

Tudjman's quote about Jews was really priceless as an example of what nonsense this Croat revisionism is: "The Jews provoke envy and hatred but actually they are 'the unhappiest nation in the world', always victims of 'their own and others' ambitions', and whoever tries to show that they are themselves their own source of tragedy is ranked among the anti-Semites and the object of hatred by the Jews".

What utter garbage!

14 posted on 03/15/2008 11:06:55 AM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe
Not "chickened out", just bored with rehashing your nonsense Tudjman historical revisionism over and over.

Sorry, but I don't use Tudjman as a source on this matter. My sources are Chetnik, Italian, and German primary sources.

Again, I challenge anyone on FR to debate this matter.

15 posted on 03/15/2008 11:22:35 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Bokababe
You're moving the goalposts. Nowhere did I mention Bosnian Muslims...I'm just stating the fact that the Albanians have no interest in Jihad as exemplified by the fact that the KLA didn't allow the Mujahideen into their ranks, and kicked out quite a bit from Kosovo. Read Mujahideen Aukai Collins' memoirs on the matter.

The Kosovo Albanians reject Wahhabism (but take Saudi money anyway), Bosnia is a different story.

16 posted on 03/15/2008 11:27:12 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Bokababe

Absolutely, Bokababe. Right out of the “Croatian/Communist handbook”.

There is no “debate” with a “true believer”.

A few tidbits of info are worthy here:

Mihailovich’s chetnik stronghold was predominatly in Serbia proper during WWII, and also in parts of Bosnia and in parts of the Krajina area in Croatia (where there was a majority Serb population), and in areas of Montenegro. Tito had very little strength in Serbia proper. His areas of support lay in Croatia, Montenegro, and Bosnia.

In late 1943, the Allies, for all practical purposes, abandoned General Mihailovich and his chetniks, at the behest of Winston Churchill, his treacherous commie advisors in Cairo, and his pro-Tito friends at home. Mihailovich and his Chetniks were left to the wolves, simultaneously at the mercy of the Nazi occupiers and Tito’s Partisans, who, depending on how you look at things, were every bit as destructive or more so, than the Germans were in Yugoslavia.

Due to the horrific Ustasha (read: Croatian and Bosnian Moslem Nazi quislings) massacres against the Serbian population in the Independent State of Croatia (which at that time included Bosnia-Hercegovina), many Serbs fled from the massacres by joining Tito’s Partisans who happened to be prevalent in specific areas of Croatia.

As for “more Serbs fought on the side of the Axis until roughly late 1943”, that’s a line that would make even Adolf Hitler laugh. He knew exactly whose side the Serbs were on, just as he knew exactly whose side the Croatians, the Bosnian Moslems and Albanians were on. If this had indeed been true, the Nazis would not have instituted their terrible 100 for 1 reprisal policy against the Serbs on September 13, 1941 which they implimented and executed with devastating consequences for the Serbian civilian population. That’s 100 dead Serbs for every 1 dead German.

Hitler also knew what Tito was all about. He let it be known that he always considered Mihailovich and his Chetniks the bigger, more real, threat in Yugoslavia.

What often confuses the issue is that some Serbs were “Partisans” and some were “Chetniks”. Those who were chetniks (often referred to as “nationalists”) would not only pay the price from the Nazis, they would pay the price from the Yugoslav Partisans (communists) as well, both during and after the war.

German archives and German commander testimonies would best address the “Serbs fighting on the side of the Axis” nonsense.

Now, Croatians fighting on the side of the Axis, that’s a whole ‘nother story.


17 posted on 03/15/2008 11:27:59 AM PDT by Ravnagora
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To: Ravnagora
Hi Ravnagora:

The Chetniks stopped fighting the Germans by the end of 1941. Most Chetniks never once fought either the Italians or Germans, particularly those in Dalmatia, Lika, Central and Western Bosnia. And I'm not even touching upon the legal Chetniks outside of the Ravnagora movement who collaborated with the Germans from day one.

Nor am I even touching the topic of Ljotic's units, who by the way, were tied to Djujic's Chetniks of Dalmatia, Lika, and Western Bosnia since Djujic was a member of Ljotic's Zbor party.

18 posted on 03/15/2008 11:32:10 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Ravnagora
Hitler also knew what Tito was all about. He let it be known that he always considered Mihailovich and his Chetniks the bigger, more real, threat in Yugoslavia.

That's funny, considering the fact that the Chetniks began collaboration with the Germans in 1941 in Eastern Bosnia under Major Dangic's forces. LMAO.

19 posted on 03/15/2008 11:33:30 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Ravnagora
Dio will try and occupy you all day with this nonsense, just to give himself a chance to spew -- a total waste of time, IMHO. Especially given that all anyone really needs to know to settle it, is:

1. Harry Truman gave Mihailovic the highest award possible for a foreign national, the Legion of Merit -- " General Mihailovich and his forces, although lacking adequate supplies, and fighting under extreme hardships, contributed materially to the Allied cause, and were instrumental in obtaining a final Allied victory

2. The communists, and Nazi supporters (including the Croats, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians) have been trying to smear him ever since -- with no luck.

20 posted on 03/15/2008 12:39:54 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe

I know what you mean, Bokababe, but actually it’s not a waste of time. I appreciate the challenge and he seems like an articulate person. If too many things go “unanswered”, then only one side remains on the record and there’s nothing out there to counteract it. Lot’s of “Tito was G_d” stuff out there. Not nearly enough “No, he wasn’t” stuff out there. Thus, propaganda and lies become “history” and are taken at face value. Diocletian is not the only one who uses the same tactics to smear Mihailovich and the Chetniks. It’s all too predictable.

The communists (Both Yugoslav and British) and Croats, Bosnian Moslems and Albanians have, unfortunately, had GREAT success in waging their smear campaign - so much so that many history books spew the same nonsense. I guess it’s their way of diverting focus away from their war crimes and dubious affiliations and collaborations.

They’ve worked so hard at it that they have actually succeeded in many ways, but that success is fading. Truth has this funny way of always coming out, whether you like it or not. It’s up to those who know the truth to be diligent and to stay determined to make sure that it does.

Just as the truth will come out one day about the “wars” in former Yugoslavia in the 1990s and the whole Kosovo issue.

It often takes a long time, long after the players are dead.


21 posted on 03/15/2008 1:06:01 PM PDT by Ravnagora
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To: Ravnagora

Actually, the Wiki reference on Mihailovic above is pretty good re debunking the propaganda. Surprising since Wiki usually sucks!


22 posted on 03/15/2008 1:09:30 PM PDT by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
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To: Bokababe; Ravnagora
So the both of you are chickening out as well? No surprise.

Why not just answer a simple question first: provide proof that Djujic's Chetniks of Dalmatia, Lika, and Western Bosnia fought either the Italians or the Germans even once.

23 posted on 03/15/2008 3:01:23 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian
Diocletian:"the KLA didn't allow the Mujahideen into their ranks"

Well somebody had better tell

a) Fatos Klosi, former head of SHIK, who spoke of Bin Laden being in Northern Albania to help organise the Al Qaeda/Mujahideen forces

b) Mossad

c) Numerous Western reporters who eye witnessed trailers full of Mujahideen

d) Macedonian army who had to deal with Mujahideen a year or so later when their country was invaded. If the KLA wouldn't deal with them, where oh where did they come from?

e) Holbrooke, who admitted of ties between AL Qaeda and KLA

f) Bodansky, surely the authority on Islamist extremism who wrote extensively of Mujahideen in Kosovo

g) Embedded German reporter/Major Franz Josef Hutsch whose testimony in the ICTY spoke of around 100 elite Mujahideen in local HQs who'd target spot for NATO

h) Pakistani President Musharraf who wrote of 100's of Mujahideen being recruited by NATO

i) Abu Hamza who confirmed almost word for word what Musharraf had said. He was used by the British for the recruiting

j) Numerous Serb sources which you of course won't accept

k) Numerous Russian sources

l) Blah di blah di blah di blah

Quite frankly,Diocletian, I'm surprised you keep on bowling such lame half volleys.

24 posted on 03/15/2008 8:50:47 PM PDT by Barnsleys Beck
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To: Diocletian
Dio: If that's true you should be proud of the Serbs joining your Croat Nazi Ustashi for the great Nazi cause. But instead a good old Croat like you hates Serbs.

None of this matters. Croatia will be Croatiastan with speakers blasting prayer 5 times a day in Zagreb.

25 posted on 03/16/2008 8:17:06 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: Bokababe
Additionally, 512 downed Americans and 84 British and Canadian airmen were sheltered and rescued mainly by Serbian villagers at the grave risk of their own lives.

And how wonderfully we paid them back for their sacrifice.

26 posted on 03/16/2008 12:56:43 PM PDT by MarMema (kosovo will always be Serbian)
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To: Barnsleys Beck

All your examples show the Mujahideen dealing with NATO......the KLA didn’t want them. It was the USA along with the Saudis that moved the Mujahideen into Kosovo...not the KLA.


27 posted on 03/17/2008 2:31:41 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: SQUID

I don’t hate Serbs. I have Serbian family and friends. Explain to me something: what position are you advocating: that Croatia should once again be ruled by Serbs?


28 posted on 03/17/2008 2:32:50 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian

No, that Croatia will be ruled by Muslims.


29 posted on 03/17/2008 4:03:06 PM PDT by SQUID
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To: SQUID

Sorry, not happening.


30 posted on 03/17/2008 4:48:35 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian

Just wait. Then Germany and the Vatican won’t save you.


31 posted on 03/17/2008 4:57:38 PM PDT by SQUID
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To: SQUID

It’s interesting that for so many years in the 1990s, the Western media and policy makers focused so heavily on alleged “Serb atrocities against Muslims”. Meanwhile, the Croats were dealing with the “Muslim” problem in the former Yugoslavia in their own special way, and for anyone who is familiar with Croatian methods in war, they understand what I mean here by “special”.

Diocletian doesn’t believe that Croatia will ever be ruled by Muslims. There was a time when Serbs didn’t believe that their sacred christian Kosovo would be ruled by Muslims either.

It would be interesting to see the Croatian reaction if Dubrovnik were to become “90%” Muslim (read: Serbia’s Kosovo) and consequently declare “independence” from Croatia.


32 posted on 03/17/2008 5:23:18 PM PDT by Ravnagora
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To: SQUID

Ah yes, another poster with a “prediction”. LMAO


33 posted on 03/17/2008 5:37:09 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Ravnagora

Kosovo wouldn’t have ever been taken from Serbia had the Serbs not opened themselves up to being attacked because of their greed. Had Slobo not riled up the Serbs of Croatia and split Bosnia between Croatia and Serbia, you’d have half of Bosnia, all of Montenegro and Kosovo within a Serbian state.


34 posted on 03/17/2008 5:38:38 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian

Correction - 2/3rds of Bosnia.


35 posted on 03/17/2008 5:41:29 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian
Oh dear, Diocletian, you say that none of my examples show KLA/Mujahideen co operation. You obviously didn't read Major Franz Josef Hutsch's testimony.

And Hoolbroke admitted to KLA/Al Qaeda links too.

As did Bodansky.

Please try to bowl something with a little line and length.

36 posted on 03/17/2008 5:46:25 PM PDT by Barnsleys Beck
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To: Diocletian
That's just your opinion. There are other factors I'm sure you know of being in Croatia at the time.

In my opinion I think Yugoslavia was a mistake and Croatia should have been left alone. They were too busy thinking they were German to buy into a Slavic union. Serbs were always looking for Russian help that never came. Russians couldn't care less about Serbs.

Greed came from all sides because with the fall of Communism it was a big land grab. Croatia played a better political game than the Serbs and were able to make gains with the help of her old WWII friends.

37 posted on 03/17/2008 5:46:32 PM PDT by SQUID
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To: SQUID

Croatians don’t think they’re German....we’re just adverse to Pan-Slavism thx to the Yugoslav experience and because Pan-Slavism tends to champion Serbian interests over Croatian ones.


38 posted on 03/17/2008 5:56:45 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Barnsleys Beck
Again, what I'm saying is that what you call co-operation was actually forced upon the KLA by the Americans and their Saudi partners.

The Mujahideen found much more fertile ground in Bosnia to spread their brand of Islam when compared to Kosovo where the Albanians had and still have no interest in Wahhabism (but take Saudi cash anyway). But the Albanians couldn't say no to their American and Saudi allies who insisted that the Mujahideen be allowed to operate in Kosovo beside the KLA.

Mouth, gift horse, and all that.

39 posted on 03/17/2008 5:59:36 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian
Fine. So you admit that the Mujahideen did indeed fight alongside the KLA. So, we agree. Thanks.

We also agree that the US was in bed with the Mujahideen too, in Kosovo. And in Bosnia too.

So, let's agree to agree.

40 posted on 03/17/2008 10:16:04 PM PDT by Barnsleys Beck
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To: Diocletian
Oh dear me. That's pretty poor stuff. I really am surprised at you Diocletian.
41 posted on 03/17/2008 10:36:02 PM PDT by Barnsleys Beck
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To: Barnsleys Beck

The point I’m trying to make is that the Mujahideen were foisted upon the KLA. The Albanians by and large aren’t much for Jihad.


42 posted on 03/18/2008 1:19:10 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Barnsleys Beck

Those are the facts. The Serbs of Croatia were always going to be sold out by their brothers in Belgrade. We told them.


43 posted on 03/18/2008 1:20:51 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian
I knew you would say that. Pan slavism began with Serbs and Croats in a mutual interests to answer to the Austrio Hungarian rule. As a result, Croatia was able to gain independence from the Empire, but ironically now trying to become part of another empire.

Let me ask you, do you agree that Serbs should be able to return to their homes in Dalmacija/Krajina? That means all the people that the Croatian army ethnically cleansed.

It doesn't matter. The future is simple. Croatian and Serb birth rates will never compete with the Arab birth rates. So, when Croatia becomes part of the EU they will have signed their sovereignty over to Brussels.

Then when Turkey and Albania enter into the EU you will see an Islamic population rush because Croats and Serbs only have 1-2 children per family while the Muslims have 5 and more. You say that will never happen, why not? Do you think your immigration laws will be in place under EU control?

44 posted on 03/18/2008 6:26:20 AM PDT by SQUID
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To: Diocletian
"The Albanians by and large aren’t much for Jihad." But given a tough "do as we say" letter from Wathington and a couple of bucks, the KLA will happily line up with the Mujahideen. Fuck the Mujahideen, the KLA, Washington, NATO. Scum, all of 'em.
45 posted on 03/18/2008 10:17:44 AM PDT by Barnsleys Beck
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To: Diocletian
Diocletian:"The Serbs of Croatia were always going to be sold out by their brothers in Belgrade. We told them."

And the Bosnain Croats were sold out by Tudgman. C'est la vie.

46 posted on 03/18/2008 10:20:28 AM PDT by Barnsleys Beck
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To: SQUID
I knew you would say that. Pan slavism began with Serbs and Croats in a mutual interests to answer to the Austrio Hungarian rule. As a result, Croatia was able to gain independence from the Empire, but ironically now trying to become part of another empire.

The original Yugoslavia had a chance to succeed, but the Serbs screwed it up with the Vidovdan Constitution of 1921 which was centralist and created a Greater Serbia rather than an actual Yugoslavia.

Let me ask you, do you agree that Serbs should be able to return to their homes in Dalmacija/Krajina? That means all the people that the Croatian army ethnically cleansed.

Of course they should be able to return. Many have...most won't. Unlike the Croatians who were cleansed from occupied parts of Croatia by the Serbs, the Croatians are allowing the Serbs to return. Most however have chosen to return only to put up their homes for sale.

It doesn't matter. The future is simple. Croatian and Serb birth rates will never compete with the Arab birth rates. So, when Croatia becomes part of the EU they will have signed their sovereignty over to Brussels. Then when Turkey and Albania enter into the EU you will see an Islamic population rush because Croats and Serbs only have 1-2 children per family while the Muslims have 5 and more. You say that will never happen, why not? Do you think your immigration laws will be in place under EU control?

The problem with such prognostications is that they view history moving in a linear fashion. As recently as 1986 I never thought I'd see an independent Croatia in my lifetime.

47 posted on 03/18/2008 1:03:12 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Barnsleys Beck

Now you understand my point, Beck. No American pressure, no Mujahideen. You can’t blame the Albanians for it.


48 posted on 03/18/2008 1:03:57 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Barnsleys Beck
And the Bosnain Croats were sold out by Tudgman. C'est la vie.

Not true at all. And as a Croatian from Bosnia-Hercegovina, I can assure you that my constituency is by far the most appreciative of Tudjman.

49 posted on 03/18/2008 1:05:06 PM PDT by Diocletian
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To: Diocletian
Diocletian:"You can't blame the Albanians for it"

Oh, don't be a silly billy. Just because the US/NATO are a total disgrace in this sorry episode of "Let's team up with the Mujahideen and let them wipe out Infidels and Secular Muslims" doesn't mean that the KLA are blameless.

Let's face it, a couple of bucks from the US and the KLA were/are/will be more than happy to fight alongside the Mujahideen.

It's that simple. The US/NATO are guilty, as are the KLA, to a ever so slightly lesser extent, that's all.

BB

50 posted on 03/29/2008 10:54:43 PM PDT by Barnsleys Beck
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