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In Oxford, Muslim call to prayer sounds strained note
AFP on Yahoo ^ | 3/15/08 | Loic Vennin

Posted on 03/15/2008 10:57:40 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

OXFORD, England (AFP) - Famous for its university and quintessentially English "dreaming spires," the city of Oxford has been plunged into controversy over the sound of Muslim call to prayer from a local mosque.

Those church spires have been joined by a minaret, with a loudspeaker on top which has triggered protests from locals concerned about the influx of a foreign culture.

"I don't have any problem with Islam but don't force it on people," said Oxford University historian Allan Chapman, whose typically English house has a view of both the minaret and the nearby Church of Saint Mary and Saint John.

The Central Mosque was built in the east of the city, the "other Oxford", which is home to a poorer population and more immigrants than the historic centre of ancient, sandstone colleges, libraries and students on bicycles.

Cutting through the area is the main, multi-ethnic thoroughfare of Cowley Road, where Pakistani men in traditional tunics and other immigrants rub shoulders with the city's student intelligentsia going to and from their digs.

In this city, with a population of just 140,000, including nearly 20,000 students, nothing is very far away.

The mosque itself -- which can hold up to 700 of the town's 6,000 Muslims -- is little more than a 15-minute walk from Oxford's colleges, many of which were founded by Christian religious scholars as long ago as the 12th century.

But while the city's history is marked by Christianity's influence, some believe the mosque's imposing minaret defiles the city's famous skyline, which has remained largely unchanged for centuries.

Those feelings have been brought to a head since last November when mosque authorities expressed a desire to broadcast via loudspeaker the Muslim prayer call, the Adhan, sparking controversy that has not yet died down.

Wearing a three-piece suit with a bow tie and a gold chain hanging out of his jacket pocket, Chapman describes himself as "profoundly English" but rejects suggestions that he is taking an extreme view.

"I'm a liberal... I want to be inclusive but I don't want to be walked over," he said.

For him, the issue goes above and beyond the noise created by the call to prayer, which goes out five times daily in Muslim countries, and instead challenges English tolerance and threatens Britain's values and history.

"If Oxford accepts it, it would be used right across the country," he said.

Charlie Cleverly, the rector of the Saint Aldates church, in the heart of Oxford, says the city has long represented "the essence of Englishness".

"It is common knowledge, though few will say it, that 'radical Islam' has a programme to 'take Europe, take England and take Oxford'," he said.

"In this strategy, some say the prayer call is like a bridgehead, spreading to other mosques in the city."

The local Oxford Mail newspaper quoted locals in the area as fearing the creation of a "Muslim ghetto". The counter argument runs that the pealing of church bells is also a call to prayer.

To calm the mood, Central Mosque's treasurer Masood Ahmed insisted that the desire to issue a call to prayer was still only a proposal which required the approval of Oxford's mayor.

"We'll get their views, what they feel," he said.

The Church of England Bishop of Oxford, the Right Reverend John Pritchard, has entered the row, but supports plans to broadcast the Adhan, calling for people to "relax" and "enjoy community diversity".

"I believe we have good relationships with the Muslim community here in Oxford and I am personally very happy for the mosque to call the faithful to prayer in east Oxford," he said in January.

But he accepted that the number of times the call went out and its volume still needed to be resolved.

Chapman, though, is less accommodating, pledging to seek compensation from the mayor for "discrimination" if the proposal is approved.

For the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), the debate is as futile as its direction is inevitable, as a debate rages over the extent to which cultural diversity is affecting the traditionally British way of life.

"The call to prayer will be part of Britain and Europe in the future," said Inayat Bunglawala, the MCB's assistant secretary general.

He said that the Adhan was already broadcast three times a day at a large mosque in east London and that it had "never been problematic".


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: adhan; calltoprayer; eurabia; invaders; islam; jihadinbritain; koran; londonistan; minaret; mosque; mosques; muslim; muslims; oxford; quran; shariahlaw; sharialaw; ukmuslims; unholyalliance

1 posted on 03/15/2008 10:57:43 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

We need our own sound, a call to war against these invading muslims.


2 posted on 03/15/2008 11:03:11 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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To: NormsRevenge

“The call to prayer will be part of Britain and Europe in the future,” said Inayat Bunglawala, the MCB’s assistant secretary general.

That’s for damn sure. They are going to be subjected to this more and more. So are we unless something drastic happens.


3 posted on 03/15/2008 11:05:34 PM PDT by MartinStyles
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To: NormsRevenge
I have to tell you, if that happened in my neighborhood I'd be outraged.

I think I'd go get myself and industrial high powered CO2 laser off of eBay and destroy the speakers while no one was looking...

4 posted on 03/15/2008 11:06:28 PM PDT by DB
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To: NormsRevenge
"I'm a liberal... I want to be inclusive but I don't want to be walked over," he said.

For him, the issue goes above and beyond the noise created "It is common knowledge, though few will say it, that 'radical Islam' has a programme to 'take Europe, take England and take Oxford'," he said.

Not wanting to offend will be the downfall of western society.

5 posted on 03/15/2008 11:07:05 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: Allan Chapman

"I don't have any problem with Islam but don't force it on people"

See, that first part is where you are getting into trouble.


6 posted on 03/15/2008 11:08:57 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: NormsRevenge
The Church of England Bishop of Oxford, the Right Reverend John Pritchard, has entered the row, but supports plans to broadcast the Adhan, calling for people to "relax" and "enjoy community diversity".

Amazing.

Somehow I don't think Jesus would agree.

7 posted on 03/15/2008 11:11:40 PM PDT by DB
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To: Lijahsbubbe
"Not wanting to offend will be the downfall of western society"

I've offended appropriately today, have you?


8 posted on 03/15/2008 11:13:57 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: DB

Hmm. If they ever build a mosque in my area, speakers or not, that thing’s getting firebombed till there’s nothing left, over and over again until they get the message.


9 posted on 03/15/2008 11:19:39 PM PDT by TheZMan (I'm going to write my own name on the ballot. Screw the current crop of "conservatives".)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham

“We need our own sound, a call to war against these invading muslims.”

And the first casualties need to be the craven bastard politicians who suck up to the muslims.


10 posted on 03/15/2008 11:22:37 PM PDT by Levante
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To: NormsRevenge

Except the noise or you’re a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic hate mongers!

-liberal mantra


11 posted on 03/15/2008 11:33:29 PM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President!)
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To: NormsRevenge

Except the noise or you’re a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic hate mongers!

-liberal mantra


12 posted on 03/15/2008 11:33:33 PM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President!)
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To: I see my hands

Sometimes inappropriately.


13 posted on 03/15/2008 11:35:45 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe
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To: NormsRevenge

‘The counter argument runs that the pealing of church bells is also a call to prayer.’

...and when was the last time we heard that? The Angelus bells used to ring every day at 6 am and noon, but now there are noise ordinances that prevent it.

Religion aside, the sound of tolling church bells is much more pleasant that someone screaming in Arabic thru a loudspeaker.


14 posted on 03/15/2008 11:37:50 PM PDT by baa39 (Defend our troops! see my profile page)
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To: NormsRevenge

Its not a call to prayers, but a battle march. The english better wake up to understand this.


15 posted on 03/15/2008 11:49:50 PM PDT by Proud_USA_Republican (We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good. - Hillary Clinton)
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To: NormsRevenge

Seems to me I read a couple of years ago that someplace like Hamtramck (sp?) Michigan was battling over being forced to listen to the amplified call to prayer from a mosque.


16 posted on 03/15/2008 11:56:45 PM PDT by Knutsdatter
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To: Tzimisce

“Except the noise or you’re a bunch of racist, sexist, homophobic hate mongers!”

Oh, I’d gladly except the noise. Accepting the noice is an entirely different issue, though. ;)


17 posted on 03/16/2008 12:07:24 AM PDT by CaspersGh0sts
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To: baa39

Exactly. The call to prayer is meant to bring everything to a hault, to be imposing. Church bells are harmonic intervals throughout the day. There’s a pleasentness to them, even when they’re merely tolling the hours.


18 posted on 03/16/2008 12:08:49 AM PDT by CaspersGh0sts
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To: NormsRevenge
All Christians.
Agree on one hymn.
Go outside.
Five times a day.
Sing.

Loud.

19 posted on 03/16/2008 12:22:28 AM PDT by ItsForTheChildren
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To: NormsRevenge

Church bells are not necessarily a call to prayer. Church bells have rung out for centuries for various reasons. And bells themselves certainly have many purposes. The sound of a bell is common, traditional, and unoffensive.

Islamic call to prayer has only one purpose and whereas they may say it has not caused a problem in other places, how do they know that? How many individuals are stressed and scared by that sound? I certainly don’t want to hear it where I am. Call to prayer could be considered incitement in countries who are working to fight terrorism.


20 posted on 03/16/2008 12:29:59 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

Further, if call to prayer ever came to my area, I would arrange for church bells to ring all over the city to drown out the sound.


21 posted on 03/16/2008 12:34:43 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: NormsRevenge

There is no God named Allah and Mohammed was a false prophet! Allahu fubar!


22 posted on 03/16/2008 12:36:12 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: NormsRevenge

“It is common knowledge, though few will say it, that ‘radical Islam’ has a programme to ‘take Europe, take England and take Oxford’,” he said.”

And not a political leader in sight with the backbone to discuss this openly, and to openly discuss the long term ramifications.


23 posted on 03/16/2008 12:36:58 AM PDT by Will88
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To: NormsRevenge
Loud Speakers are absurd. That is what personal alarm clocks/watches are for.

The total population does not need to be disturbed by that noise. Contending that they are the same thing of Sunday church bells is rubbish.

If they don't like it, go back to the Middle East and give up their rights under a too accommodating citizenship from the good old UK. I know these comments are way too late and controversial but they are just as true as possible.

Go back to Pakistan or Egypt or India and do your thing. Leave Oxford to be Oxford, like it has been for thousands of years.

24 posted on 03/16/2008 12:40:31 AM PDT by jws3sticks (Hillary can take a very long walk on a very short pier, anytime, and the sooner the better!)
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To: jws3sticks

“Loud Speakers are absurd. That is what personal alarm clocks/watches are for.”

Yep, it’s just one more way Islam is designed to impose itself upon a populace. This call to prayer nonsense is no more needed than a call to school blaring all over town, or a call to lunch, or anything else.


25 posted on 03/16/2008 12:43:17 AM PDT by Will88
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham
"I don't have any problem with Islam but don't force it on people,"

Sorry lad, but it's what they do.

26 posted on 03/16/2008 12:52:15 AM PDT by realdifferent1 (What do the people of China call their good plates?)
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To: NormsRevenge

“The Church of England Bishop of Oxford, the Right Reverend John Pritchard, has entered the row, but supports plans to broadcast the Adhan, calling for people to “relax” and “enjoy community diversity”.

“I believe we have good relationships with the Muslim community here in Oxford and I am personally very happy for the mosque to call the faithful to prayer in east Oxford,” he said in January.”

This man is a fop and weak and foolish. He can believe the “good relationship” all he wants, but a day will come when HIS neck will be in the wringer, and his Muslim ‘friends” will turn the handle without hestitation.

He needs to understand that Muslims can lie and cheat “non-believers” with impunity, according to their religious writings. He’s been sold a bill of goods, and England is sinking under the waves of Islam.

The war will be fought in the streets of London, I’m convinced. The battles in the Middle East are just the beginning, there will be open warfare in Europe within 10 years - the rioting that barely gets reported is the opening sorty.

Pity the hapless Europeans who had their right to arm themselves stripped long ago, they are sitting ducks.

And, we’ll lumber along right behind them, supporting this nonsense. Will we follow all the way, or finally throw the shackles off and DO something about it?

With a man named Obama in office, it’s doubtful. There will be calls to prayer in your neighborhood soon.


27 posted on 03/16/2008 1:23:32 AM PDT by ByDesign
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To: I see my hands

>but don’t force it on people

Heh! That’s Islam’s defining characteristic. Will they give up tolerance of evil?


28 posted on 03/16/2008 2:02:00 AM PDT by ROTB (Front Runner=rich guy who doesn't hate evil and strives to offend no one, & WILL SELL YOU OUT.)
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To: ItsForTheChildren

"All Christians. Agree on one hymn. Go outside. Five times a day. Sing. Loud."

How about Onward Christian Soldiers?

29 posted on 03/16/2008 3:21:22 AM PDT by Mila
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To: baa39

Fixed it. NNTTM.

30 posted on 03/16/2008 3:24:12 AM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: Mila

I think the words are appropriate.
-
Onward Christian Soldiers

Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war.
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!
Christ, the royal Master,
Leads against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See His banner go!

Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war.
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

At the sign of triumph
Satan’s host dost flee;
On, then, Christian soldiers,
On to victory!
Hell’s foundations quiver
At the shout of praise;
Brothers, lift your voices,
Loud your anthems raise!

Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war.
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

Like a mighty army
Moves the church of God;
Brothers, we are treading
Where the saints have trod;
We are not divided;
All one body we,
One in hope and doctrine,
One in charity.

Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war.
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!

Onward, then ye people,
Join our happyy throng,
Blend with ours your voices
In the triumph song;
Glory, laud, and honor,
Unto Christ the King:
This thro’ countless ages
Men and angels sing.

Onward, Christian soldiers,
Marching as to war.
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before!


31 posted on 03/16/2008 3:26:03 AM PDT by Mila
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To: jws3sticks
For him, the issue goes above and beyond the noise created by the call to prayer, which goes out five times daily in Muslim countries

I really believe having the whining coming five times a day is just what the average Englishman needs to stir his blood up to do something.

32 posted on 03/16/2008 4:02:59 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Marine Spec Ops Dad)
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To: CaspersGh0sts

Did you mean ‘Accepting the noise ...’ ???

Today’s term for a typo ... ‘digitally misplaced’.


33 posted on 03/16/2008 4:51:08 AM PDT by ByteMercenary (9-11: supported everywhere by followers of the the cult of islam.)
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To: sageb1
The Islamic call to prayer has caused plenty of problems elsewhere. In Jerusalem they were blasting their loudspeakers at 2AM, and going on for at least a half hour. Other people have complained about these loudspeakers harassing the community in the wee hours of the morning in various parts of the world.

For Muslims to say there has been no problem is just more taqiyya.

34 posted on 03/16/2008 5:05:32 AM PDT by magooey (stop the bs, fight the war!)
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To: Mila

I prefer “Battle Hymn of the Republic” or “Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition.”


35 posted on 03/16/2008 5:11:43 AM PDT by nonliberal (Graduate: Curtis E. LeMay School of International Relations)
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To: NormsRevenge
"I don't have any problem with Islam but don't force it on people," said Oxford University historian Allan Chapman, whose typically English house has a view of both the minaret and the nearby Church of Saint Mary and Saint John.

(snip)

"I'm a liberal... I want to be inclusive but I don't want to be walked over," he said.

Looks like the liberal dufus is finally getting an education on Islam and how it works.

36 posted on 03/16/2008 5:13:10 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
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To: Mila; ItsForTheChildren
I like the Battle Hymn of the Republic much better.
37 posted on 03/16/2008 5:16:07 AM PDT by Virginia Ridgerunner ("We must not forget that there is a war on and our troops are in the thick of it!"--Duncan Hunter)
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To: Mila; All

“How about Onward Christian Soldiers?”

.....good call!...I remember that one....sadly, my grandchildren don’t....they’ve never heard it....it’s been removed from the Prtesbyterian Hymnal....wasn’t PC, don’t cha know.


38 posted on 03/16/2008 5:43:04 AM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: NormsRevenge
Having lived in the Middle East - and right near a mosque - I can attest that listening to the call to prayer 5 times a day is the most upsetting thing possible to a Christian.

I never got used to it. It's like an alien demon itself wailing you awake at dawn and destroying your tranquility at night. It's a constant reminder Satan is alive and well in your neighborhood and is in control.

Don't let it happen in your town, people. Fight this abomination with every bone in your body and if you somehow lose the "peaceful" fight, take up the "other' one. Fast.

Losing this battle at the beginning doesn't mean you've just lost a little bit but things will turn out all right because you've "compromised" with your neighbor and can now live in peace. It means, in reality, you just ceded and lost everything you hold dear - because you surely soon will. Islam is relentless and uncompromising in it's destruction of those who oppose it in even the smallest way. A toehold gained is a war won.

Islam is a religion of the Devil and represents perfectly that which he is trying to do here on Earth!

39 posted on 03/16/2008 5:53:03 AM PDT by Gritty (It isn't about 'assimilation'. It's about the essence of identity, allegiance. - Mark Steyn)
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To: Gritty

I also lived in the Middle East for quite a few years, most of that time in a muslim community. The first call to prayer is just before daybreak. It was broadcast loudly over a loudspeaker, and believe me, was very unwelcome to non-muslims, and even secretly to many Muslims who did not want to drag themselves out of bed at such an early hour.

Just imagine the most unpleasant, jarring alarm clock imaginable, one that you cannot shut off or get away from by covering your head with your pillow, and which wakes you up each and every day long before you need to wake up. Coming to a community near you.

What many in the West do not understand is that the mosque is intended to show the superiority of Islam. If possible, the minaret of the mosque is always built higher than any other religious building, such as the steeple of a church. In Bethlehem, where I lived, for instance, the ancient Church of the Nativity is overshadowed by minarets.

I do not know how high the minaret is in Oxford, but would not be surprised if it is taller than the local church steeple. Muslims place great emphasis upon symbols, and the minaret symbolizes their belief of the triumph of Islam over Christianity.

Likewise, the call to prayer broadcast over the entire community is an important way of “claiming” the community for Islam. Elsewhere in England, apparently an accomodation has been made to permit broadcasting the call to prayer only three times a day. You may be certain this is only a temporary strategm. When the Muslims feel strong enough, they will demand that their call to prayer be broadcast with no restrictions five times a day, and then the entire mostly- Christian community will have to endure the unpleasant early morning wake up call intended to drill into their minds the superiority of Islam.


40 posted on 03/16/2008 6:29:20 AM PDT by tjd1454
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To: Will88
Yep, it’s just one more way Islam is designed to impose itself upon a populace. This call to prayer nonsense is no more needed than a call to school blaring all over town, or a call to lunch, or anything else.

You are absolutely right, it is a way to let everyone know that they are there and that they are not going away! It is a way to impose their pagan religion on everyone and if you fight them on it, they will call for a Jihad!

41 posted on 03/16/2008 6:36:10 AM PDT by oswegodeee (Dee ( Born and raised in the south, yummy corn bread and BBQ ))
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To: oswegodeee; cardinal4

We lived in Saudi Arabia for a few years. One February we decided it was cool enough to turn the window ACs off and open the windows. Bad idea. At the first Al Fajr (pre-dawn prayer call) we fired the ACs back up and shut the windows and went back to sleep.


42 posted on 03/16/2008 6:53:59 AM PDT by Ax
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To: tjd1454
Your comments are spot on.

The call to prayer is akin to a dog going around and pissing on every fire hydrant and bush in the neighborhood to mark his territory and claim it as his own. This is not a "small" demand even though it is deceptively presented and ofttimes perceived as one.

The Muslim religion is straight from the pit of Hell. There is nothing Godly, honorable, uplifting, decent or enlightened about it. Zero. Those trapped in it are lost souls literally trapped in a system of spiritual and temporal slavery. Their aim is to force you into their mold and put you in subjugation to their dogmas and control - which ultimately means the Devil.

Most non-Muslims don't see the mortal threat proposed with these sorts of demands because they are so foreign to our prevailing view of freedom, tolerance and justice. But they will, and perhaps to their everlasting horror. Hopefully, they will not discover it too late.

For those in Oxford toying with this decision and thinking it but a small thing, they do not realize it might be the most important decision of their lives.

43 posted on 03/16/2008 7:53:44 AM PDT by Gritty (While the merciless dogmas of Muhammad remain there can never be peace upon earth-John Quincy Adams)
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To: NormsRevenge

Besides the religious content (and, yes, I do agree with the general comments about Islam) this is also an issue of noise pollution.

Even if there was no religious content, I’d still object.
It’s not fair to subject the community to that sort of caterwauling, WHATEVER the content. It’s very harsh and unpleasant sounding.


44 posted on 03/16/2008 8:35:59 AM PDT by Molly K.
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To: Lijahsbubbe
"The call to prayer will be part of Britain and Europe in the future," said Inayat Bunglawala, the MCB's assistant secretary general.

Spoken with an assurance of truth. Makes sense, the UK has completely rolled over..

45 posted on 03/16/2008 8:41:41 AM PDT by cardinal4
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To: Westbrook

LOL, thanks, I guess I left out a few important words!


46 posted on 03/16/2008 1:10:10 PM PDT by baa39 (Defend our troops! see my profile page)
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To: Molly K.

Obama thinks it is the most beautiful sound.


47 posted on 03/17/2008 7:17:01 AM PDT by oswegodeee (Dee ( Born and raised in the south, yummy corn bread and BBQ ))
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To: ByteMercenary

“Did you mean ‘Accepting the noise ...’ ??? ...Today’s term for a typo ... ‘digitally misplaced’”

Funny you should mention that: I was having fun with another poster misplacing except for accept. :) A little tongue in cheek, if you will. ;)


48 posted on 03/19/2008 2:36:21 AM PDT by CaspersGh0sts
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To: NormsRevenge
The Church of England Bishop of Oxford, the Right Reverend John Pritchard, has entered the row, but supports plans to broadcast the Adhan, calling for people to "relax" and "enjoy community diversity

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
49 posted on 11/03/2008 10:06:59 AM PST by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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