In fact, the only really bad thing about the South are the just a tad too-rabid college football fans of SEC teams. 
Posted on 03/21/2008 5:22:11 AM PDT by bs9021
The South Rises Again
by: Malcolm A. Kline, March 20, 2008
Academics’ attitudes towards the South color their teaching about the region, particularly lessons on the Civil War, and their histories, thus, often project myth rather than reality. “Many historians, myself excepted, go in with an argument before they have done their research and seek to impose their present policy positions on the past,” University of Pennsylvania historian Walter McDougall said on March 11 in an appearance at the Cato Institute here. “I prefer to go in plug ignorant.”
McDougall is the author of the recently released Throes of Democracy: The American Civil War Era 1829-1879. “Truth versus error doesn’t make a lot of difference in academic circles now,” Herman Belz, a professor of history at the University of Maryland, said later in the same forum.
Despite his own admonition, McDougall finds an “irresistible parallel” “between “Reconstruction and Operation Iraqi Freedom.” “Reconstruction was America’s first experiment with nation-building,” he explains.
If that analogy holds, it does not bode well for the current effort abroad. “Reconstruction was a failure,” Belz avers. “Freed blacks did not get freedom.”
“Emancipation brought segregation,” and “the national government got bigger.” Although McDougall and company point to “wounded pride” as “the reason for secession,” the debate over the size and scope of the federal government, their evidence suggests, may have also been a motivating factor, even more than slavery itself was....
Both Rubin and McDougall agree that the proportion of southerners who actually owned slaves topped out at about one-third of the population below the Mason-Dixon Line, according to the census figures at the time. “But even the ones who didn’t own slaves wanted to,” Rubin says.
“Slavery did not cause secession,” Belz argues. ...
(Excerpt) Read more at campusreportonline.net ...
LLS
A GREAT BOOK - The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South
What the liberal media don’t want you to know - and what they get plain wrong about the South and its history
PLUS: Why you’d probably be happier living there - if you’re not already
The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South
by Clint Johnson
http://www.conservativebookclub.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c7003
If there’s anything the liberal media loves to hate,it’s the South. And thanks largely to them,today almost every reminder of Southern history and heritage is under attack: battle flags,soldier statues,even songs such as “Dixie.” Now,in The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South,Clint Johnson fights back against this media-led “hate the South” campaign. He reveals that,far from being the backwater of prejudice and hate that liberals would have you believe,the South has always been the center of American culture. Indeed,Johnson shows,from the Founding Fathers(Washington,Jefferson,Madison,Monroe,and many others) to the frontiersmen who tamed the West to the Country Music,NASCAR,Bible-thumping heart of “Red State” America,the South is the quintessence of what’s original,unique,and most-loved about American culture. And with its emphasis on traditional values,family,faith,military service,good manners,small government,and independent-minded people,the South is just plain more livable than the North - which is one reason why millions of Yankees,white and black,have been moving down there in droves.
OK, I'll bite. What exactly is "The Truth" with respect to this topic? This article doesn't say much except string together a bunch of quotes. What exactly is the great conspiracy that is making Southerners "victims" here?
It’s not just the South. The Corrupt Media (i.e. the “Mainstream Newsmedia) hates the entire U.S.A.
“...and independent-minded people,the South is just plain more livable than the North...”
Frankly, I was amazed at the incredible number of small, independent businesses here in SC. Entreprenuers are everywhere. Rural Michigan, with its boarded up businesses and for sale signs popping up like weeds, looks like a movie set for a depression era film by comparison.
It’s my belief that SC will weather any recession due to its diverse business base.
From the books back cover....
The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South gives you the facts behind scores of revelations like these:
The first of the 13 colonies to formally legalize slavery? (Hint: it’s not in the South)
How Georgia banned slaves - and lawyers - in its founding charter
Why the South is more important to the American Founding than the North
Throw away those history textbooks: How the South,not the North,started -and won — the American Revolution
How Southerners led the way in drafting the Declaration of Independence,the U.S. Constitution,and the Bill of Rights
Why Northerners - not Southerners - wanted slaves to be counted as property instead of people in the Constitution
Peculiar fact about the wealthy slaveholder whose court cases helped legalize slavery in Virginia: he was black
How Virginia militiamen created the American Midwest
Why Northern states threatened secession long before the Confederacy - and why they considered it Constitutional
How the expansion of the U.S. across the continent from 1830-1850 - which gave us the term “Manifest Destiny” - was largely a Southern achievement
Lewis & Clark? Southerners,of course
The first two Jewish members of the U.S. Senate? Yep,you guessed it
How Southerners outnumbered Northerners almost four to one among the heroes of the Alamo
Why slavery,which spread across all thirteen colonies,was far crueler in the North than the South
How the Northern colonies grew rich on slave trading - and revived slavery in the South just before it collapsed
New York City’s largest industry in 1860? The outfitting of slave ships
The site of a mass grave for slaves who were literally worked to death? Hint: it’s not in the South
Why economics - not slavery - was the driving force behind the War Between the States
How Lincoln twice refused — or actually revoked — orders for emancipating slaves
How Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation left more than 800,000 slaves in bondage in states aligned with or occupied by the Union
Black heroes of the Confederacy - and other great Southern blacks you won’t hear about during Black History Month
How the more civilized Southern way of war contributed to its defeat - in contrast to the North’s brutal “total war” against civilians and property
How the Northern victory dealt a death blow to states’rights - leading eventually to today’s all-powerful federal government
Why “Reconstruction” is the most misnamed period in American history
Why segregation,which didn’t exist in the antebellum South,was a legacy of Northern-imposed “Reconstruction”
How virtually all of America’s highest-ranking World War II generals had Confederate roots
How Southerners won World War II in the Pacific theater
How the South was making movies when Hollywood was nowhere
Why race relations in today’s South are much better than in the North - or anywhere else in America
What Yankee reporters don’t understand about the South
Why faith and family come first in the South
Why the South is naturally conservative (and the North is naturally liberal)
Why limited government and low tax rates are a Southern tradition
Why Northerners - white and black — keep moving South
Statistics show Southerners are happier than people in other regions - Clint Johnson shows you why
It’s a fact: Southern women dominate beauty pageants,and Southern men dominate in sports
Why blacks have been moving back to the South in droves
How American jazz,blues,and rock ‘n’ roll (when it was still music) all came from the South
Why blacks hold more - and more powerful - political offices in the South than in the North
Why Southern industry is booming,while the North’s is going bust
The second war against the South — the campaign to erase memory and history - and how it serves liberal interests
Why Southerners are overrepresented in the military - and no,it’s not poverty
The best American literature? Southern,of course - and our high school and college reading lists confirm it
10 Things Southerners Don’t Understand About the North (#1: Why isn’t Ted Kennedy in prison?)
Sounds like a real feel-good book.
Excellent post!
Socialism is Slavery by Givernent,, Democracy causes socialism and north eastern States have and do push the socialism that democracy causes.. Democracts are for democracy but republicans(historically) are for the republic
THE REAL LINCOLN and LINCOLN UNMASKED by Dr. Tom DiLorenzo are excellent histories of what really happened in that era. Of course, members of the Church of Lincoln would disagree.
It was an abysmal failure...radical Republican disenfranchisement of former Confederates doomed it from the start. The corrupt Freedman's Bureau and more corrupt (carpetbagger/scalawag) politics emanating from the Grant administration added fuel to the raging doom and set up a climate of racism that would last a century. Had Lincoln lived, with his vision or reconciliation and implementation of Civil Rights for former slaves without northern bayonets and with full states rights concurrence, it would have been different.
Well think about this... Is it really north eastern states or is it urban living? As people live in closer proximity it would make sense that they would seek more restrictive rules. For example have you ever been in a city during a garbage strike? Assigning all your boogie monsters to north eastern states I think it just as bad as northern stereotypes about southerners (IMHO).
Um... the Klan was less than helpful too as were the calls to cut and run in Washington.
I do not bash Lincoln like some Southern Patriots around here do. I am glad the USA is one country. It's good to hear that the Southern part of the USA had a positive effect on the rest, for not only is this true, but it shows that the South is a decent part of the country.
Back to Lincoln. He did what he had to do. The changes in warfare that occured while not just, were natural given the superiority of Southern military know-how versus Northern might in armarments and men. In war things escalate and get out of hand. I'm sure the commandant of Andersonville didn't want to mistreat his prisoners but ugly things happened on both sides.
Had I been alive then I would have first plead to not dissolve the Union, but, like Robert E. Lee, once Alabama had seceded I would have fought for my native land. And had I lived through that terrible conflict, I would have supported Lincoln's version of reconciliation.
Lincoln's assassination set the South back 100 years. It was a devastation for us.
Some great and ironic points in your post. Thanks. However, I’m not sure Lincoln could have rescued Reconstruction as it extended for many more years than Lincoln’s power had he lived beyond assassination.
Another good book on this subject is
The Last Generation: Young Virginians in Peace, War, and Reunion By Peter S. Carmichael
LLS
In fact, the only really bad thing about the South are the just a tad too-rabid college football fans of SEC teams.
Oh geeze, I was afraid you were going to go down that tired and dusty old road...give it up. Of course there were many many factors that led to the War. Of course northerners and southerners can both be accused of making stupid moves. However, it was the slavery issue that brought the states rights versus individual civil rights issue to the forefront in the minds of the people of the day. To say slavery was the only reason the war was fought is idiotic. To insiste that slavery was no factor at all is equally as idiotic.
“If all else fails, I will retreat up the valley of Virginia, plant my flag on the Blue Ridge, rally around the Scotch-Irish of that region, and make my last stand for liberty amongst a people who will never submit to British tyranny whilst there is a man left to draw a trigger.”
George Washington, at Valley Forge.
Whatchutalkinbout?
Go Vols!
You better watch that bad mouthin' about the SEC unless, of course, you're talkin' about Auburn. Then go right ahead.
Maryland "Freak State" PING!
Could be urban living.. but there can be a large difference between north and southern urbanity.. Maybe the size and mix of the suburbs..
South vs. North should not even be a scenario anymore. We are one America period. It amazes me that even on FR we tend to separate ourselves from North vs. South as if either was perfect. I have lived in both North and South and I really don’t see as much difference as some. I think both have their positive and negative. The Northeast has some great historical sites and is beautiful. The South has some great places to visit and has great weather. What is not to like in either instance.
Ah yes, Atlanta has become such a pillar of Southern ideals... snicker. I really do think a lot of the differences even going back as far as the War between the States can be traced to City Mouse versus Country Mouse and which type of mouse controls the State legislature.
Here, here... well said. I too have lived in both Northern and Southern states and have similar observations as yours.
Yes, but you’re not factoring those radical Republicans who saw Reconstruction as a way to PUNISH the South for Lincoln’s murder. So that wouldn’t have been an issue at all.
Also, Lincoln could’ve controlled those radicals much better than Andrew Johnson!
Reconstruction was over by 1874. That’s only 9 years after Richmond fell.
Meh!
War Eagle!!!!
... or so says somebody from Wikopedia.
I do know that you couldn’t get a more passionate fan base than that of SEC football teams. What else do you expect at places like LSU, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Arkansas, Tennessee and only slightly less at Vanderbilt, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Kentucky?
I disagree with your assessment as follows:
The War of 1861 was a transitional war in terms of tactics. In the beginning (1861-1863) it was fought with the tactics of the Napoleonic era. Those who were best trained in Napoleonic tactics (particularly the southern officers) had the advantage.
However, in the later years (1864-1865) the tactics became more like World War I where trench warfare became the option. The industrial might of the north prevailed as did the northern generals who were more able to adapt to that style of "total war".
The war of northern agression.. was carried on almost wholly by people that never owned a slave.. on both sides..
Thanks to tax queen Jenny.
Big deal, so what. Get over your anti-northern bigotry. There was aggression on both sides.
No need to disagree!
What you said was what I was actually trying to say. You said it SO much better, thanks!
" Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves" - Oddball(Kellys Heros)
Interesting read. Thanks for posting.
Lincoln's assassination was an event that spurred on a harsher treatment of the South. The last Confederate state to rejoin the Union was Texas in 1870. While black Republicans continued to control some of these state legislatures beyond that date, it was just a matter of time before the majority of voters took back control.
I will not stand with the Redeemers and Klu Klux Klan's racial politics, but much of their strength lay in the perceived treatment Reconstruction imposed on white Southerners. Reconstruction fizzled out (and even though Hayes kept troops in certain Southern cities until 1877 it was pretty much over by 1874--read about the Memphis race riots of 1866 to see how even then Union generals were reluctant to help out Southern blacks) rather than come to an abrupt end. The Jim Crow era then took hold as a REACTION to Reconstruction rather than in spite of it.
Lincoln's policy of reconciliation might have had a very different affect indeed. Like I said, his death set the South back 100 years, and that was the point of my post.
" Always with the negative waves Moriarty, always with the negative waves" - Oddball(Kellys Heros)
The one thing that could bring folks together in Alabama, for example, was the tradition of Alabama Football. It was something everyone could identify with regardless of education, religion, or creed. It was and still is about pride. Roll Tide.
I don't disagree with any of this except for the victimology that seems inherent in these arguments... boo hoo, they made us do it. Of course Jim Crow laws would never have been necessary had slavery never existed. So one could also make the argument that the Jim Crow era was caused by the slavery era... but what would be the point?
I, for one, do not believe there would have been a Klan (at least not in its violent, malevolent form) had Lincoln lived. It, after all, was primarily a reaction to radical republican policies that saw people of the South punished willy-nilly for secession...R.B. Hayes's administration tried unsuccessfully to restore the Lincolnesque philosophy of "malice towards none and charity to all" but after the Johnson and Grant regimes it was too late. Racism had an ugly tight grip on the reins of power and the Southern elite (former planters) aristocratic political leadership (the Lees, Davises, et al) which would have been instrumental in getting the redneck yoeman in line to accept full rights for black people would have kissed their political chances goodbye trying to enact Civil Rights by then.
I don't buy it about the Klan but it's unprovable either way. Like al-Qaeda there were probably many racist organizations that were loosely affiliated with the Klan proper (the organization started by Confederate troops in 1866) so to assign Klan cause and effect is purely speculation motivated by what? I'll leave that speculation to you too.
” Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? “ - Oddball
Actually, the klan was begun as a Tennessee college fraternal organization. Former Army of Tennessee cavalry chief N. Bedford Forrest saw its political potential when witnessing pranks the organization would play (blacks, kept in ignorance by the plantation system, were frightened by hooded and sheeted pranksters claiming to be ghosts). Forrest quickly incorporated it into a way of suppressing freedmen votes at polling places and became its first grand wizard. But, though Forrest is rightly credited with the KKK beginnings as a tyrannical organization, he is hardly ever recognized as a person who tried furiously to disband it after it became a violent instrument of terror with a trail of lynchings and mayhem.
So poor old Nathan gets a bum rap. He was just practicing voter intimidation when the intimidation just got too intimidating for his delicate tastes. I can only imagine how bad that might have been for a person who’d just spent years on a series of bloody battlefields. Do I have to post a sarcasm tag?
I am in no way trying to defend what I consider to be a record of intimidation, coersion and harsh racism but I would invite you to google him and look at the full measure of the man with respect to the times that he lived.
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