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Security at what cost? National ID system is not worth the $23 billion price tag
Star Tribune ^ | 23 Feb 2008 | Bruce Schneier

Posted on 03/21/2008 5:14:17 PM PDT by BGHater

The argument was so obvious it hardly needed repeating: We would all be safer if we had a better ID card. A good, hard-to-forge national ID is a no-brainer (or so the argument goes), and it's ridiculous that a modern country such as the United States doesn't have one. One result of this line of thinking is the planned Real ID Act, which forces all states to conform to common and more stringent rules for issuing driver's licenses.

But security is always a tradeoff; it must be balanced with the cost. We all do this intuitively. Few of us walk around wearing bulletproof vests. It's not because they're ineffective, it's because for most of us, the tradeoff isn't worth it. It's not worth the cost, the inconvenience, or the loss of fashion sense.

According to the Department of Homeland Security's own estimates, Real ID will cost Americans around $23 billion. So is this a good tradeoff for us -- are the security benefits worth the price tag?

When most people think of ID cards, they think of a small plastic card with their name and photograph. This isn't wrong, but it's only a small piece of any ID program. What starts out as a seemingly simple security device -- a card that binds a photograph with a name -- rapidly becomes a complex security system.

It doesn't really matter how well a Real ID works when used by the hundreds of millions of honest people who would carry it. What matters is how the system might fail when used by someone intent on subverting it:

(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 110th; homelandsecurity; id; realid; realidact; security; wot
'• The card itself. No matter how unforgeable we make it, it will be forged. We can raise the price of forgery, but we can't make it impossible. Real IDs will be forged.

• Legitimate cards in fraudulent names. Two of the Sept. 11 terrorists had valid Virginia driver's licenses in fake names. And even if we could guarantee that everyone who issued national ID cards couldn't be bribed, cards are issued based on other identity documents -- all of which are easier to forge.

• Lost cards. About 20 percent of all identity documents are lost per year. An entirely separate security system would have to be developed for such cases, a system that itself would be susceptible to abuse.

• The human link. Any ID system involves people -- people who regularly make mistakes. We've all heard stories of bartenders falling for obviously fake IDs, or sloppy ID checks at airports and government buildings. It's not simply a matter of training; checking IDs is a mind-numbingly boring task, one that is guaranteed to have failures.

Real ID won't be nearly as secure as we might hope. But the main problem with any strong identification system is that it requires the existence of a database. In this case, it would have to be 50 linked databases of private and sensitive information on every American, one widely and instantaneously accessible nationwide. The security risks of this database are enormous. Computer scientists don't know how to keep a database of this magnitude secure, whether from outside hackers or the thousands of insiders authorized to access it.'

1 posted on 03/21/2008 5:14:21 PM PDT by BGHater
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To: BGHater

What a pant load this is! Next we’ll all have to have our SSN tattooed on our foreheads.

My dippy Republican congressman supported this law. Time to give him a call.


2 posted on 03/21/2008 5:16:03 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX
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To: BGHater

I suggest racial profiling.


3 posted on 03/21/2008 5:16:22 PM PDT by rocksblues (Tagline on hold)
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To: BGHater

"Show me your RealID Papers, Citizen!"

4 posted on 03/21/2008 5:20:32 PM PDT by Clock King (Bring the noise!)
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To: BGHater
http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/. Ah, the feeeeeeling of safety. With programs executed by minimum-wage incompetents.


5 posted on 03/21/2008 5:24:40 PM PDT by M203M4 (True Universal Suffrage: Pets of dead illegal-immigrant felons voting Democrat (twice))
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To: BGHater

It’ll work great for its intended purpose - monitoring and controlling the activities of law-abiding citizens. And when this thing blows up in their faces, it’s implanted RFID chips for everyone.


6 posted on 03/21/2008 5:25:30 PM PDT by Content Provider
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To: BGHater
Use the $23 billion and BUILD THE DAMN FENCE !!
7 posted on 03/21/2008 5:40:42 PM PDT by traumer
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To: Clock King

Some time ago, I visited the Holocaust museum in Washington.

One of the exhibits is a photograph similar to the one you posted with a caption along the lines of “Armed Nazi thugs warrantlessly search the belongings and paperwork of regular citizens.”

Not 10 minutes ago, I had to stand in line for men with guns X-ray my coat and see if my phone was really a phone and such - perhaps they feared I was going to hijack the museum and crash it into the nearby White House.


8 posted on 03/21/2008 5:49:00 PM PDT by CGTRWK
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To: BGHater
Finger prints and retina scans.

http://www.aavextechnology.com/retina.htm

9 posted on 03/21/2008 6:24:15 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: BGHater

Hell, I’m a natural born American.

I have a valid nonexpired drivers license.
I have a certfied, stamped copy of my Certificate of Live Birth from the NYS Dept of Vital Statistics

If someone has a question, I can drive them to my mom and dads gravesite, or let them talk to any of my brothers and sisters.

I could drive them to a place in Eastern NY, and if I got permission to go on private property, show them the falling down gravestone of a man born in 1761. A man who happens to be my gr gr gr gr gr grandfather.

Take yur realid and put it where the sun dont shine!


10 posted on 03/21/2008 6:29:37 PM PDT by djf
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To: M203M4
I like to annoy people when I pay my bills.

Photobucket

11 posted on 03/21/2008 6:30:12 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: Pining_4_TX

Your solution?


12 posted on 03/21/2008 6:32:33 PM PDT by Cobra64 (www.BulletBras.net)
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To: BGHater; All
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, Hellow? Hang the price.

We can't afford to be enslaved by such a deadly strategy!

The card is merely the next stage of the water-in-the-slowly-heating-bucket-strategy that has worked so well for at least 5 decades . . . . on the way to the CHIP ID IMPLANT--AND A LONG LIST of other hideous Biblically predicted GLOBALIST WORLD GOVERNMENT GOALS--such as reduction of the world's population . . . latest target widely reported being 200 million max global population--after forced & engineered 'reductions' are complete.

Check out the GEORGIA GUIDESTONES on that score. I think 500 million was the target when they were constructed. And The Bible says 1/3-2/3rds of the world's citizens in the END TIMES era will die.

I think it was CNN founder Ted Turner who publically has stated that he wished he could come back reincarnated as a super deadly virus. I think Kissinger reportedly said something of similar ilk. And one of the Rockefellers is also on public record saying something in the ball park of such sentiments.

I realize this is major scoff material for many uninformed souls. Nevertheless, a watchman MUST warn, regardless of the responses.

Revelation 13:16-17 (The Message)

The Message (MSG)

Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson

13-17This second Beast worked magical signs, dazzling people by making fire come down from Heaven. It used the magic it got from the Beast to dupe earth dwellers, getting them to make an image of the Beast that received the deathblow and lived. It was able to animate the image of the Beast so that it talked, and then arrange that anyone not worshiping the Beast would be killed. It forced all people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to have a mark on the right hand or forehead. Without the mark of the name of the Beast or the number of its name, it was impossible to buy or sell anything.

REVELATION 14:
9-11A third Angel followed, shouting, warning, "If anyone worships the Beast and its image and takes the mark on forehead or hand, that person will drink the wine of God's wrath, prepared unmixed in his chalice of anger, and suffer torment from fire and brimstone in the presence of Holy Angels, in the presence of the Lamb. Smoke from their torment will rise age after age. No respite for those who worship the Beast and its image, who take the mark of its name."

REVELATIOIN 15:2
2-4I saw something like a sea made of glass, the glass all shot through with fire. Carrying harps of God, triumphant over the Beast, its image, and the number of its name, the saved ones stood on the sea of glass. They sang the Song of Moses, servant of God; they sang the Song of the Lamb:

Mighty your acts and marvelous, O God, the Sovereign-Strong! Righteous your ways and true, King of the nations! Who can fail to fear you, God, give glory to your Name? Because you and you only are holy, all nations will come and worship you, because they see your judgments are right.

REV 19:20
19-21I saw the Beast and, assembled with him, earth's kings and their armies, ready to make war against the One on the horse and his army. The Beast was taken, and with him, his puppet, the False Prophet, who used signs to dazzle and deceive those who had taken the mark of the Beast and worshiped his image. They were thrown alive, those two, into Lake Fire and Brimstone. The rest were killed by the sword of the One on the horse, the sword that comes from his mouth. All the birds held a feast on their flesh.

REV 20:4
4-6I saw thrones. Those put in charge of judgment sat on the thrones. I also saw the souls of those beheaded* because of their witness to Jesus and the Word of God, who refused to worship either the Beast or his image, refused to take his mark on forehead or hand—they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years! The rest of the dead did not live until the thousand years were up. This is the first resurrection—and those involved most blessed, most holy. No second death for them! They're priests of God and Christ; they'll reign with him a thousand years.

AMPLIFIED VERSION:
Amplified Bible (AMP)
Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation

REVELATION
13:16Also he compels all [alike], both small and great, both the rich and the poor, both free and slave, to be marked with an inscription [[a]stamped] on their right hands or on their foreheads,

17So that no one will have power to buy or sell unless he bears the stamp (mark, inscription), [that is] the name of the beast or the number of his name.

REVELATION
14:9Then another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a mighty voice, Whoever pays homage to the beast and his statue and permits the [beast's] stamp (mark, inscription) to be put on his forehead or on his hand,

10He too shall [have to] drink of the wine of God's indignation and wrath, poured undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.(A)

11And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no respite (no pause, no intermission, no rest, no peace) day or night--these who pay homage to the beast and to his image and whoever receives the stamp of his name upon him.(B)

REVELATION 15:2
2Then I saw what seemed to be a glassy sea blended with fire, and those who had come off victorious from the beast and from his statue and from the number corresponding to his name were standing beside the glassy sea, with harps of God in their hands.

REV 16:2
2So the first [angel] went and emptied his bowl on the earth, and foul and painful ulcers (sores) came on the people who were marked with the stamp of the beast and who did homage to his image.(A)

REV 19:20
20And the beast was seized and overpowered, and with him the false prophet who in his presence had worked wonders and performed miracles by which he led astray those who had accepted or permitted to be placed upon them the stamp (mark) of the beast and those who paid homage and gave divine honors to his statue. Both of them were hurled alive into the fiery lake that burns and blazes with brimstone.

REV 20:4
4Then I saw thrones, and sitting on them were those to whom authority to act as judges and to pass sentence was entrusted. Also I saw the souls of those who had been slain with axes [beheaded] for their witnessing to Jesus and [for preaching and testifying] for the Word of God, and who had refused to pay homage to the beast or his statue and had not accepted his mark or permitted it to be stamped on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived again and ruled with Christ (the Messiah) a thousand years.(A)

*Sounds like our Jihadi era, to me. Some sources insist that there are many warehouses full of thousands of new guillotines in the USA and other countries around the world. It seems . . . organs for ‘donation’ are best retrieved from folks terminated that way.

13 posted on 03/21/2008 6:33:17 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: BGHater

They estimate 23 billion. Based on their estimate, I bet this will cost well over 150 billion.


14 posted on 03/21/2008 6:50:38 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Content Provider

I don’t plan on getting chipped. Won’t let that happen.


15 posted on 03/21/2008 6:51:44 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: BGHater

False ID documents are generated at an astounding rate. I did some work on a consulting project 20 years ago. At that time one large retail store in Massachusetts had two transactions a day where the customer used a genuine state issued Massachusetts drivers license that turned out to be a total fake — no such person, address, etc. existed.

Forged IDs aren’t the only problem, the Real ID system presumes that no government employee is ever corrupted - even the lowly DMV clerk. That is a nonsensical assumption. In Boston not too long ago it turned out that there were people in the FBI office who were working for organized crime.

Security based on thinking that (a) you know who somebody is, and (b) you know what they will do is pointless. After all Timothy McVeigh passed all kinds of US government screening as a member of the military, and certainly was issued a federal ID. He also was or turned into a crazy terrorist.


16 posted on 03/21/2008 6:52:14 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: BGHater
WHAT!! some one does not want Hillary Clinton tracking every move you make in any store entrance/exit, at all checkout stands, at the bank, gas station, or bistro/restaurant...

OR... Borat Obama, John McQueeq.. All three want change.. basically the same changes..

17 posted on 03/21/2008 6:54:39 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: freeandfreezing

Or . . . a globalist stooge, goon . . . black ops sort . . . as a number of folks have asserted . . . with a number of accomplices . . . including some Iraqi’s.


18 posted on 03/21/2008 7:00:12 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: hosepipe

WHAT!! some one does not want Hillary Clinton tracking every move you make in any store entrance/exit, at all checkout stands, at the bank, gas station, or bistro/restaurant...

OR... Borat Obama, John McQueeq.. All three want change.. basically the same changes..

###

YUP.

It’s just that Shrillery is meaner about it, more evil; harsher and more abusive with the military and with dismantaling our military . . . would rush us into NAU and the global government at the speed of light.

Obumma would likely take a fast jet to get us there.

McChurian might take a bullet train to get us there.


19 posted on 03/21/2008 7:02:01 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: BGHater

More than about anything else, it is important to know the REAL reasons for REAL ID:

Laziness, Incompetence and Perverse Voyeurism.

An entire book should be written on the subject of why *any* law, which has as its primary goal to “make things easier” for the government, is INHERENTLY BAD LAW.

To start with, it is an *admission* that the government is failing to keep its promises, because it promised to do something it could not, or would not do.

And since the only TWO things that any government MUST do is protect its citizens from their enemies, foreign and domestic, this is an admission that the government has FAILED IN ITS PRIMARY MISSION. Nothing else that it does is as important as this.

And when government cannot perform its primary mission, it typically focuses on minutiae, on the unimportant.

At that point, government saying it “needs the tools”, or “needs more money” is no excuse, because it should not have promised what it could not deliver, with what it had before.

Failure. Failure. Failure.

The other reason for REAL ID is Voyeurism, pure and simple. The obsessive compilation of information, of all kinds on individuals, the creation of immense dossiers containing great amounts of trivial data. The recording of the boring and insipid lives as if that matters.

IT DOES NOT.

It is a neurotic compulsion, a perversion whose focus is spying on others, invading their privacy, and cataloging the minutiae of their lives. It is not just in the domain of the peeping tom, or the degenerate who prowls through garbage looking for the detritus of the person they are obsessed with, to build an altar to their mental disease.

Individuals thus afflicted are also at high levels of government, and they continually demand more access to more and more intimate details of other people’s lives. To see them plead in an agitated manner that they *need* this access, that they *must* have this access, is grotesquely reminiscent of another type of degenerate:

The child molester.

The child molester who says he *needs* to be around children, who *must* have access to them. Who rationalizes his perversion as being good for children as well, that it is “for their own good” that he be allowed to molest them.

Such sick individuals are naturally drawn to jobs where they can feed their sickness, be it the care of children, or the occupation of surveillance.

Does every American need a dossier? Do they need to be spied upon and recorded? Do they need to be cataloged, indexed, numbered, analyzed, and watched at all times?

Many in the high levels of government would say “Yes!”, enthusiastically. “Because it will make the government’s job *easier*”, it will “make people feel safe”, and “we have to do it, because it is for their own good.”

Doesn’t it make you feel safe to be spied on by perverts?

And the REAL ID card goes a long way to make that happen.


20 posted on 03/21/2008 7:14:06 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: Quix

Amen to that, Brother.


21 posted on 03/21/2008 7:17:58 PM PDT by FReepapalooza (Joshua 3:4 ..."for ye have not passed this way heretofore.")
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To: Quix
Yes, and a fan and customer of a certain obscure motel off of I-40 in Oklahoma where the owner alleges that Mohamed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi (a 9/11 hijacker) and Zacarias Moussaoui all visited.
22 posted on 03/21/2008 7:28:31 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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What a pant load this is! Next we’ll all have to have our SSN tattooed on our foreheads.
*************************************************
I think not ,, the SSA doesn’t allow the ssn to be used as any form of id (is it a felony or misdemeanor?) ... and we know they really mean it by requiring it’s use as an id on d/l’s and student id’s , bank accounts and hundreds of other things..

A smart card based system will be less secure than a dumb card.. there will no doubt be either a software workaround or a glitching fix to them by the forgers within months as hackers get a reader terminal to disassemble.. then the smart card that is 100% infallible and trusted by the gov’t becomes a liability as it allows undesireables access to whatever this is supposed to keep them out of.. I don’t like any of it but a dumb card that would be used in conjunction with a retina scan connected to a centralized secure computer system would be more secure by far..


23 posted on 03/21/2008 7:32:41 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: FReepapalooza

Thanks for your kind affirmation!

Was beginning to wonder if anyone was awake who was well informed . . . or if anyone was not occupied with Resurrection Sunday Weekend relatives and such . .

Much appreciate your kind comment.

God’s best to you and yours this weekend.


24 posted on 03/21/2008 7:50:20 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: freeandfreezing

Thanks for your informed, informative comment . . .

Are you saying that you have some . . . first hand personal communications say . . . from said motel? Or at least not that much removed from first hand communications or . . . ???

Very curious, if you are willing to elaborate.

Thanks much.

A blessed Resurrection Sunday to you and yours.


25 posted on 03/21/2008 7:52:07 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Neidermeyer

INDEED.

Ain’t treasonous, stupid, idiotic, clueless, power-mongering elitist tyranny and enslavement wonderful.

/s


26 posted on 03/21/2008 7:53:37 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: Quix

Thank you.

May God shower his blessings on yours.


27 posted on 03/21/2008 7:55:13 PM PDT by FReepapalooza (Joshua 3:4 ..."for ye have not passed this way heretofore.")
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To: BGHater
Heck, the feds can't even protect the information on our passports.

I already know who I am, my state department of motor vehicles knows who I am, the social security administration has my number, my birth certificate says who I am, date and where I was born, my baptismal certificate says who I am, my First Communion Certificate says who I am, my Confirmation certificate says who I am, my Marriage License says who I am and who I married, my high school diploma says who I am, my college diploma says who I am, my employer knows who I am, my doctor knows who I am, and my insurance companies know who I am, and if the government doesn't know by now who I am, my Mom and Dad are alive, they can vouch for me.

Did I forget anything? Oh yes, the deed for my home, childhood friends, family, new friends, etc., etc..

$23 Billion another certificate to tell me who I am.

28 posted on 03/21/2008 7:55:19 PM PDT by harpo11 (Rush, had better have a back-up strategy just in case the third term grabbing Clintons win the WH.)
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To: FReepapalooza

MUCH APPRECIATED.

BTTT


29 posted on 03/21/2008 8:01:02 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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To: BGHater

So must we now learn how to speak gestapo German?


30 posted on 03/21/2008 8:03:12 PM PDT by sergeantdave (Governments hate armed citizens more than armed criminals)
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To: harpo11

“$23 Billion another certificate to tell me who I am.”

No, to tell THEM who you are.


31 posted on 03/21/2008 8:07:37 PM PDT by FReepapalooza (Joshua 3:4 ..."for ye have not passed this way heretofore.")
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To: djf
I could drive them to a place in Eastern NY, and if I got permission to go on private property, show them the falling down gravestone of a man born in 1761. A man who happens to be my gr gr gr gr gr grandfather.

Now see, that's your problem. You are a real live *native* born American. We have to keep track of you rabble rouser's.

32 posted on 03/21/2008 8:10:13 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Cobra64
ROFLMFAO!!!!!

Oh that's priceless!

33 posted on 03/21/2008 8:11:28 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: BGHater

Why not just use the Passport...we can’t even go to Canada or Mexico without it now.


34 posted on 03/21/2008 8:22:36 PM PDT by Former Dodger ( "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Einstein)
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To: BGHater

If a Real ID data base would be insecure would it be any more insecure then the data bases our information is in now.
If privacy is the concern does anyone think they have greater privacy now?
How much does credit fraud and stolen ID cost now and would that change under RealID?
Whatever the valid objections to Real ID are this newspaper didn’t hit them by a long way.


35 posted on 03/21/2008 9:01:26 PM PDT by count-your-change (you don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: M203M4

That was absolutely hilarious thanks!


36 posted on 03/21/2008 9:47:49 PM PDT by Content Provider
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To: harpo11

The feds can’t even protect their own information. I have the home phone numbers of two Presidents and no less than 2 dozen current and former Cabinet members, plus numerous political VIPs. Never called any of them, because I know they could care less about what a peon like myself thinks.


37 posted on 03/21/2008 10:06:30 PM PDT by Content Provider
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To: FReepapalooza

Rats, if they don’t know by now, what an idiotic excuse to verify what they already know. What about the Census records, and IRS records?


38 posted on 03/22/2008 6:43:57 PM PDT by harpo11 (Rush, had better have a back-up strategy just in case the third term grabbing Clintons win the WH.)
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To: Content Provider

Just another boondoogle scheme to create another reason for more confounding red tape and bureaucratic nincompoopery at the expense of the “We the People”.


39 posted on 03/22/2008 6:52:43 PM PDT by harpo11 (Rush, had better have a back-up strategy just in case the third term grabbing Clintons win the WH.)
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To: harpo11

What they have in mind is a more compiled “chip file” that would include your religious beliefs and medical records amongst other things.

It’s for your own own good, doncha know? sarc/


40 posted on 03/22/2008 7:05:54 PM PDT by FReepapalooza (Joshua 3:4 ..."for ye have not passed this way heretofore.")
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