Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Vanity - Some facts I didn't know about slavery
Vanity ^ | 22 Mar 2008 | Mr Rogers

Posted on 03/22/2008 3:58:29 PM PDT by Mr Rogers

Due to the recent hullabaloo involving Wright's sermons and liberation theology, I did some reading about slavery in the US, and discovered a number of things I hadn't heard before.

1 - Jefferson's original draft of the Declaration of Independence criticized King George for permitting the slave trade:

"He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them by murdering the people on whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.(3)

Jefferson's committee wanted to keep this passionate paragraph, and Adams considered it the best part. But Congress struck it from the Declaration, substituting the vague and self-serving charge "He has excited domestic insurrections among us."

This was a political compromise required to get the southern colonies to agree.

(http://www.lectorprep.org/jefferson_and_slavery.html)

2 - Just 4 years after winning the Revolutionary War, the Constitutional Convention debated slavery in the US. Many wanted to immediately ban the importing of slaves, but that would cost the votes of the southern states. As a compromise, importing slaves was permitted for another 20 years. In 1808, as soon as Congress could legally do so, importing slaves was outlawed.

"The Founding Fathers, however, could not resolve the issue of Slavery which divided the Colonies and was preventing agreement on the remainder of the Constitution. Accordingly, they made the decision to keep the status quo and leave it to future generations to resolve this issue.[12] As a result, the original Constitution contained four provisions tacitly allowing slavery to continue for the next 20 years. Section 9 of Article I allowed the continued "importation" of such persons, Section 2 of Article IV prohibited the provision of assistance to escaping persons and required their return if successful and Section 2 of Article I defined other persons as "three-fifths" of a person for calculations of each state's official population.[13] Article V prohibited any amendments or legislation changing these provisions until 1808, thereby giving the States then existing 20 years to resolve this issue. The failure to do so led to the Civil War.[14]"

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution)

Note the slave holders outsmarted the anti-slavery forces. In most places, banning the importing of slaves ended slavery - the death rate was too high for it to be self-sustaining. Slaveholders in the south, however, adjusted the proportions of male/female and improved living conditions. This allowed them to breed more slaves, and the slave population increased greatly after importing slaves was banished.

3 - The 3/5th person rule was NOT a statement that blacks were not really people. Slaveholders WANTED blacks counted as people, because their states would be represented in Congress based on the number of people present. Anti-slavery folks were appalled, and wanted no slaves to be counted as people, since they couldn't vote for themselves. Again, this was a compromise position.

4 - Very few of the slaves taken from Africa ended up in the USA - only about 600,000 out of 10 million or more. The vast majority went to South America or the Caribbean. It is a bit of a reach to criticize the US Government for failing to end slavery in Brazil!

5 - Independent US government really began with victory in 1783, with the last British troops leaving New York City on November 25, 1783.

Just 4 years later, slavery opponents tried to end the importing of slaves.

25 years later, importing slaves became illegal. By that time, many northern states had outlawed slavery.

82 years after the USA began, slavery ended.

It has now been 143 years since slavery was outlawed. 36% of the USA's history allowed slavery, although it was strongly contested.

This year, 2008, celebrates 200 years since it became illegal to import slaves. It was only legal for 11% of our total history.

Lynching - From Wikipedia:

"In the 1870s, Democrats regained power through affiliated militia terrorism of black and white Republicans, assassination of community leaders and political activists, and intimidation and restriction of voters at the polls. Even after the Democrats regained power throughout the South, between 1880 and 1951 the Tuskegee Institute recorded lynchings of 3,437 African-American victims, as well as 1,293 white victims.

...After increased immigration to the US in the late 19th century, Italian-Americans also became lynching targets, chiefly in the South. On March 14, 1891, eleven Italian-Americans were lynched in New Orleans after a jury acquitted them in the murder of a New Orleans police chief [16] David Hennessy. The eleven were falsely accused of being associated with the Mafia. This incident was the largest mass lynching in U.S. history.[17] A total of twenty Italians were lynched in the 1890s. Although most lynchings of Italian-Americans occurred in the South, Italians did not immigrate there in great numbers. Isolated lynchings of Italians also occurred in New York, Pennsylvania, and Colorado.

Particularly in the West, Chinese immigrants, East Indians, Native Americans and Mexicans were also lynching victims. The lynching of Mexicans and Mexican Americans in the Southwest was long overlooked in American history. Attention became focused on the South. The Tuskegee Institute, which kept the most complete records, noted the victims as simply black or white. Mexican, Chinese, and Native American lynching victims were recorded as white.[18]

Researchers estimate 597 Mexicans were lynched between 1848 and 1928. Mexicans were lynched at a rate of 27.4 per 100,000 of population between 1880 and 1930. This statistic was second only to that of the African American community, which endured an average of 37.1 per 100,000 of population during that period. Between 1848 and 1879, Mexicans were lynched at an unprecedented rate of 473 per 100,000 of population.[19]"

===================================================

During a 70 year period, roughly 3400 blacks were lynched. That was undoubtedly evil, but how does its impact compare to this:

(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20203888/)

"WASHINGTON - Nearly half of the nation’s murder victims in 2005 were black, and the number of black men who were slain is on the rise.

A majority of the black murder victims were relatively young — between 17 and 29, the Justice Department said in a study released Thursday.

The department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics report offers a snapshot of racial disparities among violent crime victims. Black people represented an estimated 13 percent of the U.S. population in 2005, the latest data available, but were the victims of 49 percent of all murders and 15 percent of rapes, assaults and other nonfatal violent crimes nationwide.

Most of the black murder victims — 93 percent — were killed by other black people, the study found. About 85 percent of white victims were slain by other white people."

============================================

From other statistics presented in the story, nearly 8000 blacks were murdered in 2005 alone. This means some 7400 blacks, mostly young men, were murdered by other blacks in just one year.

During the 70 years without a federal anti-lynching law, 3400 black men were murdered by whites. In 2005 alone, over twice that number were murdered by other blacks.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: slavery
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-71 next last
I'm not a fan of vanities, but I tried to keep this factual, not a rant. It seems to me the USA dealt aggressively with slavery, having recognized it as antithetical to our beliefs. However, politics is often about what can be done, not what should be done - and so it was with slavery. Still, I hadn't realized that within 4 years of establishing a free government, we put a 20 year deadline on importing slaves.

It also seems to me that someone who cares about the well being of black in the USA ought to spend less time decrying slavery and complaining about the impact of lynch mobs, and more time addressing the current appalling murder statistics.

1 posted on 03/22/2008 3:58:30 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

Interesting! Thanks!

Bookmarked


2 posted on 03/22/2008 4:04:14 PM PDT by alice_in_bubbaland (Vote Obama! And we'll be picking shrapnel out of our butts for decades!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
82 years after the USA began, slavery ended.

And in 1913 it was reinstated:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

3 posted on 03/22/2008 4:10:47 PM PDT by mc5cents (Show me just what Mohammd brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

Let’s hope this is a nonstarter. Slavery is a shameful part of American history, even if there was controversy about it, it was legal. There was eventually a war waged in part to end it.

As for the humanity of the slaves, well no slaveholder could view property as fully human.

Your post is quite disturbing, on many levels.


4 posted on 03/22/2008 4:11:28 PM PDT by Americalover
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

Fascinating! Thanks for researching and compiling!


5 posted on 03/22/2008 4:11:43 PM PDT by conservative cat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Americalover

when to blacks apologize for taking white slaves?


6 posted on 03/22/2008 4:12:49 PM PDT by edcoil (Go Great in 08 ... Slide into 09)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs-partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs.

-Booker T. Washington
7 posted on 03/22/2008 4:13:14 PM PDT by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
I found your post very informative and thank you for it. The passage that was most important to me was:

""In the 1870s, Democrats regained power through affiliated militia terrorism of black and white Republicans, assassination of community leaders and political activists, and intimidation and restriction of voters at the polls. Even after the Democrats regained power throughout the South, between 1880 and 1951 the Tuskegee Institute recorded lynchings of 3,437 African-American victims, as well as 1,293 white victims."

If any of the Racist Preachers would care to look at this statistic they would see that, in addition to the many thousands of Whites who died fighting in the Civil War, there were many who gave their lives later, in the attempt at Reconstruction. And they were mostly REPUBLICANS!

These Race Baiters are revisionist racists and they have done a very good job of confusing many of their fellow Blacks.

8 posted on 03/22/2008 4:18:49 PM PDT by TCats (The Clintons Are Not Just Wrong - They Are Certifiable AND Dangerous! See my Page)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Americalover

Your post is disturbing me in three ways! S/F


9 posted on 03/22/2008 4:19:12 PM PDT by Hardcorps
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

It’s easy: you owe reparations. Period. See?


10 posted on 03/22/2008 4:20:53 PM PDT by VRW Conspirator (Uncle Tom? Well you are just a crazy uncle Jerry!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TCats

“These Race Baiters are revisionist racists and they have done a very good job of confusing many of their fellow Blacks.”

And their white sympathizers.


11 posted on 03/22/2008 4:21:54 PM PDT by swmobuffalo ("We didn't seek the approval of Code Pink and MoveOn.org before deciding what to do")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: edcoil
when to blacks apologize for taking white slaves?

Since that is still happening in Africa, TODAY, not soon.

12 posted on 03/22/2008 4:23:56 PM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Americalover

I would suggest that blacks and everyone else re-read world history and remember all the cultures and people who were made slaves and were slaughtered throughout time. One can start with the Jewish people. As I recall, throughout time, armies conquered lands and made slaves of the people they conquered. Considering world history, one would think that all of us could stay enraged all the time over past history. As a Jew, the Holocaust comes to mind.


13 posted on 03/22/2008 4:24:03 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Americalover

I would suggest that blacks and everyone else re-read world history and remember all the cultures and people who were made slaves and were slaughtered throughout time. One can start with the Jewish people. As I recall, throughout time, armies conquered lands and made slaves of the people they conquered. Considering world history, one would think that all of us could stay enraged all the time over past history. As a Jew, the Holocaust comes to mind.


14 posted on 03/22/2008 4:24:43 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Americalover

“Your post is quite disturbing, on many levels.”

Why? I found it informative.


15 posted on 03/22/2008 4:25:49 PM PDT by driftdiver
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Americalover

Why do you find it disturbing that the majority of the USA wanted to end slavery, but lacked the political power to do so - or that they tried political methods before resorting to war 70 years later?

The slaveholders obviously did not consider their slaves to be fully human, but oddly enough wanted them counted as people so they could increase their political power. It sounds odd, but it was the people trying to end slavery that had to press for slaves to be counted as non-humans. Politics has strange twists.

I made no defense of either slavery or lynching. Both were obviously evil - although it was the democrats who opposed federal anti-lynching laws. However, in terms of impacting black Americans today, I point out black on black murders (93% of the total) are killing twice as many young black men each year as were killed by lynching during its 70 year evil reign. Inner city black churches should spend less time complaining about slavery (ended over 140 years ago) and more on ending the suicidal tendencies in inner city society.

Rev Wright can complain as much as he wants about white people holding back blacks, but it is black men who are killing young black men in terrifying numbers. If he was less wrapped up in hate, he would be better able to see where the problem really lies!


16 posted on 03/22/2008 4:25:54 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Let's win Congress - the Presidency is lost!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
Image hosted by Photobucket.com not to mention that slavery would of become cost prohibitive with the coming onset of mechanization and the industrial revolution...
17 posted on 03/22/2008 4:27:51 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

In a prophetic letter decades earlier ,
President Thomas Jefferson expressed
the fears of many of his contemporaries over conflicts
of states’ rights, westward settlement, federalism and slavery.
“This momentous question,
like a fire bell in the night,
awakened and filled one with terror,
I considered it at once as the knell of the Union.
It is hushed indeed for the moment.
but this is a reprieve only,
not a final sentence . . .
we have the wolf by the ears
and we can neither hold him
nor safely let him go.”


18 posted on 03/22/2008 4:28:17 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
...between 1880 and 1951 the Tuskegee Institute recorded lynchings of 3,437 African-American victims, as well as 1,293 white victims.

Complete B.S.

White victims were hung, not lynched.

Only black people can be lynched, not the white devils.

You have got to get your PC correct lexicon out if you are going to post about slavery

Only being half sarcastic

19 posted on 03/22/2008 4:29:35 PM PDT by Popman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar

Booker T. was so right on target and ahead of his time that it’s scary. There is a class of colored people who have gotten filthy rich keeping the sore of past grievances picked and festering due to their own greed and selfishness. The people of this country have paid and paid and paid for slavery - and the dirty little secret is that, until the white man is destitute, this class of colored people will not be what they think is “happy”.

Rush commented yesterday on how the Asian immigrants came to this country and seized every opportunity and in one generation are on top of the game. The black race is in a “we are owed” trap and a lot of them don’t feel like they even have to try, and all they have to do is become arrogant and angry the more the white man tries to do to help matters. Now, they belong to the Democrat Party which owns them, and it is sad.


20 posted on 03/22/2008 4:31:23 PM PDT by Twinkie (TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT !!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

The USA is out of options. If the Black race wants to keep engaging the White race on the fallacy of the past the Latinos will easily become the new minority.


21 posted on 03/22/2008 4:31:55 PM PDT by eyedigress
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

bttt!

Post away!


22 posted on 03/22/2008 4:32:24 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mc5cents
Slavery is much too important a subject to be trivialized by your comparison to the Income Tax Amendment. I agree that the government's ability to take such a large chunk of the national wealth comes from that Amendment. I agree that the Framers were wise to forbid any direct tax except a per capita one.

But that does not remotely compare to slavery.

Congressman Billybob

Latest article, "The Uber-Nigerian Scam"

Help a Freeper into Congress.

23 posted on 03/22/2008 4:33:34 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob ( www.ArmorforCongress.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar

Booker T. Washington said that? He must have been a typical white man.


24 posted on 03/22/2008 4:36:08 PM PDT by Eva (Benedict Arnold was a war hero, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Twinkie
Booker T. was so right on target and ahead of his time that it’s scary.

Ditto that.
25 posted on 03/22/2008 4:39:07 PM PDT by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
Another fact about why ending slavery was so difficult
“the value of slaves was greater than the dollar value of all of America’s banks, railroads, and manufacturing put together.”
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.event_summary&event_id=104321
26 posted on 03/22/2008 4:41:39 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

How ther Left (Victimists) twist the history of slavery in the education system:

From: The Textbook Letter, July-August 1998

http://www.textbookleague.org/93fakes.htm

More Fake “History” from Glencoe

By Prof. William J. Bennetta

Wherever multiculturalism goes, it brings Victimism with it. Victimism is an integral part of the multi-culti ideological package, and its practitioners, whom we may call Victimists, have two principal concerns: They invent fake stories and images that are intended to bring sympathy, admiration, glory and political advantage to groups of people who have been officially designated as Victims by the multi-culti establishment; and they strive to disseminate their fake stories and images in the guise of “history.”

The Victims are always groups, not individuals. This isn’t surprising, because all multi-culti ideology revolves around tribalism, the rejection of individualism, and the doctrine that a person’s primary identity is his group identity — i.e., the tribe to which he belongs. In practice, all the principal tribes turn out to be racial or quasiracial groups, which are defined in terms of their real or imaginary ancestries.

Among the racial groups represented in the population of the United States, two have not merely been certified as Victims but have also been selected for especially lavish treatment by the Victimists. These groups — Amerindians and American blacks — figure prominently in the multi-culti version of “American history,” where they are sanitized and glorified beyond recognition, and are depicted as the hapless prey of evil white men.

Sanitization is an indispensable part of this endeavor, because certified Victims must always be depicted as innocent, righteous paragons of humanity. The sanitization process consists largely of hiding or denying any facts which show that the Victims had victims of their own, whom they slaughtered, displaced, subjugated, enslaved or exploited. This is why, for instance, the fabricators of multi-culti “history” conceal the fact that slavery and slave-trading were widespread among the Amerindians. And this is why they refuse to acknowledge that in Britain’s American colonies, some blacks were slaves but other blacks were slave-owners. (See, for example, the reviews of the high-school book United States History: In the Course of Human Events in TTL, January-February 1997.)

The Victimists have been particularly vigorous in their efforts to distort the history of slavery, and in this context they have invented and promoted two grand lies. The first is the notion that slavery was unknown in the New World until it was introduced by Europeans. The second is the explicit claim that Europeans established, in the Americas, a form of slavery which entailed unprecedented cruelties — cruelties that made American slavery different from all the other slave systems that ever had existed.

To the delight of the Victimists, the assertion that the American slave system was uniquely cruel is routinely parroted in today’s high-school books and middle-school textbooks, as Jonathan Burack has told us in his Textbook Letter article “How Textbooks Obscure and Distort the History of Slavery.” Usually, the textbook-writers are content to present this assertion as a throwaway line, without pretending to explain it. However, the writers of Glencoe’s multi-culti high-school text American Odyssey: The United States in the 20th Century have done something different, for they have invented a list of features that supposedly set the American slave system apart from all others. In so doing, Glencoe’s writers have provided an exceptional demonstration of the art of perverting the historical record for the sake of promoting Victimist delusions.

The false depiction of American slavery in American Odyssey begins on page 34, under the headline “A New Type of Slavery.” The writers briefly note that slavery had existed in some other places, and they mention — but do not describe — a few examples. (Predictably, all the examples are drawn from the Old World. In American Odyssey, the slavery practiced by Amerindians is never mentioned at all.) Then the writers settle down to deception: “Before the American slave trade, however, slavery had never been permanent and irrevocable — nor had enslaved persons ever before been treated as subhuman, denied the rights of education, marriage and parenthood, or forced to pass on their slave status to their descendants.”

Every item in that passage is false or meaningless.

Consider, as an example, Glencoe’s claim that the American slave system was the first in which slavery was hereditary — the first in which “slave status” passed from parent to descendant. What a travesty! To find cases of hereditary slavery, we need only look to the Amerindians of the Pacific Northwest. Perhaps my readers will recall two such cases that I cited in these pages last year:

Though customs varied from group to group, slavery was often hereditary. Among the Tsimshians, for example, a child of any slavewoman was a slave from birth, and he remained a slave unless a freeman adopted him. Among the Chinooks, a freeman could marry a slave — but if he did, he himself became a slave, and all the offspring originating from the marriage were slaves.

[from my review of McDougal Littell’s America’s Past and Promise in TTL, September-October 1997.]

Now remember the well known slave system of ancient Rome. Among the Romans, hereditary slavery was established in law and was reflected in, among other things, the deliberate breeding of slaves. The historian M.I. Finley — an outstanding student of the ancient Roman economy — has considered slave-breeding in his classic book Ancient Slavery and Modern Ideology, and he has remarked that:
“We must take seriously … the assertion of Columella (1.8.19) that it was his practice to reward the slave mother of three children with exemption from work, [and] with freedom if she produced still more; or the statement of Appian (Civil War 1.7) that slave-owners in the Italian countryside made substantial subsidiary profits from the multitude of slave progeny, … .”

Finley also gives the lie to Glencoe’s claim that, until Europeans established slavery in America, slaves had never before been regarded as “subhuman.” In this connection, I hope that history educators will be sure to read Finley’s fine book and will give particular attention to his chapter “Slavery and Humanity.”

I hope, too, that they will read Jonathan Burack’s article again and notice the view recorded by the 14th-century Islamic historian Ibn Khaldun: Blacks were well suited to slavery, wrote Khaldun, because they were hardly human and had attributes “quite similar to those of dumb animals.”
Next, look at Glencoe’s claim that slaves had never before been denied the right to education. This isn’t even false. It is a meaningless absurdity. It is an absurdity because the idea of a universal “right” to education is a recent novelty — and for that matter, so is the very idea of a universal right. Glencoe’s notion that a “right” to education has existed always and everywhere, and has been extended to slaves everywhere but in America, is nonsense.

As my final example, I point to Glencoe’s claim that slavery had never before been “permanent and irrevocable.” That is another travesty. In North America at least, slavery certainly was not permanent and irrevocable — and every educated American knows that such eminent figures as George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, in their wills, granted freedom to all or some of their slaves. Similarly, every educated American knows that the most famous American slave of all, Dred Scott, eventually became a free man. The American Odyssey writers, however, are evidently seeking to produce dupes, not educated citizens.

END

“William J. Bennetta is a professional editor, a fellow of the California Academy of Sciences, the president of The Textbook League, and the editor of The Textbook Letter. He writes frequently about the propagation of quackery, false “science” and false “history” in schoolbooks….”


27 posted on 03/22/2008 4:41:48 PM PDT by Main Street (Stuck in traffic)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers; stainlessbanner
Bookmark
Bump
28 posted on 03/22/2008 4:44:30 PM PDT by Fiddlstix (Warning! This Is A Subliminal Tagline! Read it at your own risk!(Presented by TagLines R US))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

What’s puzzling to me is that most people seem to
think that the 1880’s southern states were entirely
populated by only rich white plantation owners and
black slaves. As though there were no free blacks
and there were no poor white folks.

All of my Georgia ancestors from that time were poor
white share-croppers, not one of whom ever owned a
piece of land, much less a slave and most of whom were
of not much higher social status than the slaves were.

Prior to that they came here from England as indentured
servants to work on the plantations to either pay off
debts or as a trade off to a prison sentence.

I have no white guilt.


29 posted on 03/22/2008 4:44:40 PM PDT by Repeal The 17th
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

“I made no defense of either slavery or lynching. Both were obviously evil - although it was the democrats who opposed federal anti-lynching laws. However, in terms of impacting black Americans today, I point out black on black murders (93% of the total) are killing twice as many young black men each year as were killed by lynching during its 70 year evil reign. Inner city black churches should spend less time complaining about slavery (ended over 140 years ago) and more on ending the suicidal tendencies in inner city society.

Rev Wright can complain as much as he wants about white people holding back blacks, but it is black men who are killing young black men in terrifying numbers. If he was less wrapped up in hate, he would be better able to see where the problem really lies!”

Worth repeating.


30 posted on 03/22/2008 4:47:17 PM PDT by AuntB ('If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." T. Paine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: ExTexasRedhead

Every race on earth has at one time held slaves or been slaves. No race is “more” guilty than another. Unless you are a socialist.


31 posted on 03/22/2008 4:47:23 PM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Republic of Texas

Someone needs to inform Osama Hussein Obama and the Pastor Wright.


32 posted on 03/22/2008 4:48:25 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: ExTexasRedhead

Wouldn’t matter. They are socialists.


33 posted on 03/22/2008 4:49:11 PM PDT by Republic of Texas (Socialism Always Fails)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
Something to add to your list: the founder of slavery in Virginia, was Jamestown resident Anthony Johnson:
According to the earliest known court records, slavery was first established in Virginia in 1654, when Johnson convinced the court in Northampton County that he was entitled to the lifetime services of John Casor, also a black man. Claiming that he had been imported as an indentured servant, Casor attempted to transfer what he argued was his remaining time of service to Robert Parker, a white, but Johnson insisted that he "had ye Negro for his life."[1]
Johnson was himself black, and one of the first blacks to arrive at Jamestown. Johnson himself arrived as an indentured servant, meaning he was free after 7 years.
34 posted on 03/22/2008 4:55:04 PM PDT by PapaBear3625
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

I sincerely hope that someone will ask Obama very publicly his views on reparations.


35 posted on 03/22/2008 5:00:27 PM PDT by umgud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar; All

His book, “Up From Slavery” is a great read.

He took a great deal of heat from the black community for suggesting they needed to learn trades as a way of breaking down the barriers, and that it was the responsibility of blacks to do that.

In his mind, if blacks could provide useful services at reasonable prices, then they would get white customers.

I think he was right. For saying that, he was branded as an “Uncle Tom” by other blacks. Not much different that what some say today about black conservatives like Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice, Thomas Sowell et al.


36 posted on 03/22/2008 5:05:16 PM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: eyedigress
The USA is out of options. If the Black race wants to keep engaging the White race on the fallacy of the past the Latinos will easily become the new minority

I think the homosexuals already beat the latinos to it.

37 posted on 03/22/2008 5:08:10 PM PDT by j. earl carter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
Black slaves were brought into the Islamic world by a number of routes—from West Africa across the Sahara to Morocco and Tunisia, from Chad across the desert to Libya, from East Africa down the Nile to Egypt, and across the Red Sea and Indian Ocean to Arabia and the Persian Gulf. There are notable differences between the slave trade in the Islamic world and the trans-Atlantic variety. The former has been going on for 13 centuries and it is an integral feature of the Islamic civilization, while the influx of slaves into the New World lasted less than three hundred years and effectively ended by the middle of the 19th century.

It is estimated that ten to twelve million Africans were taken to the Americas during that period. The number of captives taken to the heartlands of Islam—while impossible to establish with precision—is many times greater. Nevertheless, it is noteworthy that there are tens of millions of descendants of slaves in the Americas, and practically none in the Muslim world outside Africa. For all its horrors, the Atlantic slave trade regarded its victims as valuable assets whose lives and progeny should be preserved, admittedly not for altruistic but primarily for economic reasons. In the Muslim world, by contrast, slaves were considerably cheaper, far more widely available, and regarded as a dispensable commodity. They were not allowed to have families, and most men were brutally castrated even before reaching the market.

In the early Caliphate, in Mesopotamia, considerable numbers of black slaves were used as labor on large estates, but the practice effectively ceased after a mass rebellion in the ninth century that at one moment even threatened Baghdad. Since that time the Muslim heartland has been apprehensive of using large contingents of male African slaves working in one location. They were used primarily as domestic servants, or, in the case of women, as sex objects: some harems had hundreds of concubines. In North Africa black slaves were also used as soldiers blindly obedient to their masters.

Many African slaves were eunuchs, and the method of their mutilation, before they could fetch the best price in the Islamic world, defies imagination:

Castration was admittedly against the Islamic law, but its letter—the “spirit” being non-existent—often offered a pragmatic way out for the imaginative believer. Regarding African captives, a handy contrivance was to buy already castrated slaves whose mutilation occurred prior to the wretch’s importation into the lands of the Faithful. The dealers thus had a clear incentive to perform the operation themselves along the route. For African captives nothing short of “castration level with the abdomen” would do; no mere removal of the cojones, like with the Slavic and Greek captives, by the mere removal of testicles. Only such radically castrated eunuchs were deemed fit to be guardians of the harem: that way there was no risk of their damaging any of the property in the harem. The mortality rates were enormous [Islam’s black slaves—an interview with Ronald Segal by Suzy Hansen].

link

38 posted on 03/22/2008 5:13:40 PM PDT by SeafoodGumbo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

The United States and England dabbled with the “peculiar institution” for a relatively short period of time historically when compared to other nations in the past, and both ended it for ethical reasons, albeit we had a war, but it was ended. And the wheels were in motion to abolish slavery long before the Civil War itself, so it was only a matter of time. Western European culture is never credited anywhere in the media with that remarkable accomplishment.


39 posted on 03/22/2008 5:16:42 PM PDT by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar

Good points.

The “Western” world is largely responsible for eradicating slavery world wide in civilized countries, and in those that are not civilized, it is kept away from the light of the day.

England deserves credit (The Royal Navy, particularly their efforts in this area) for the beginning of the end, and we in the USA deserve some credit as well for making it disappear in the republic.

Anyone who knows history understands why we could not abolish slavery in a fledgling republic.


40 posted on 03/22/2008 5:20:48 PM PDT by rlmorel (Liberals: If the Truth would help them, they would use it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: j. earl carter
“I think the homosexuals already beat the latinos to it.”

Not to mention that Latinos are something like 35% of our population, now. They may well wind up the majority before too long.

41 posted on 03/22/2008 5:22:28 PM PDT by Old Student (We have a name for the people who think indiscriminate killing is fine. They're called "The Bad Guys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: ExTexasRedhead

I suggest everyone re-read US History. Every time I hear some pundit talking about segregation and whites only drinking fountains I am reminded of my father. He was born in 1923, graduated from high school, and never attended a segregated school. He also never encountered a whites only water fountain. People like to look at race relations in the south and assign that behavior to every state. It just was not that way everywhere.


42 posted on 03/22/2008 5:22:50 PM PDT by csmusaret (John McCain is a self rightous little prick.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Congressman Billybob
I wasn't trying to 'compare' it to slavery my friend, I was using, what's the word, exaggeration, to make a point. That is all. Sorry.

Of course slavery was and is an abomination and still is today in Africa and other places. I detest it and did in no way mean to diminish it's sin.

43 posted on 03/22/2008 5:24:38 PM PDT by mc5cents (Show me just what Mohammd brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

The only way to end all this discussion is today March 22, 2008 free all slaves black, white whatever living in the Untied States and jail all slave owners whether they be black or white or whatever.
Then and only then will this be over.


44 posted on 03/22/2008 5:25:38 PM PDT by svcw (The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
How about this fact. In 1864 the Democrats ran McClellan against Lincoln for the Presidency. Their platform was known as the "Chicago Platform" from the city where the convention was held. The Chicago Platform called for surrender to the South and full legalization of slavery. Here's a cartoon of the era, depicting the Democrats ideals. Some things never change, surrender then, surrender today. Note in the cartoon the similarities to Democrat slogans of today, "a useless war", note the American flag flown upside down, etc., etc.
45 posted on 03/22/2008 5:26:13 PM PDT by jsh3180
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers

There you go again with facts getting in the way of preconceived notions.


46 posted on 03/22/2008 5:29:16 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Old Student
Not to mention that Latinos are something like 35% of our population, now.

Whoa Nellie....slow down. Remember that Latinos just passed up blacks (last year, iirc) as the most populous minority, and blacks are only 13% of the population.

47 posted on 03/22/2008 5:30:13 PM PDT by SeafoodGumbo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Mr Rogers
This 2001 FR article might be of interest to you.
48 posted on 03/22/2008 5:40:44 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (The FReeper Foxhole. America's history, America's soul.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Repeal The 17th

I assume you mean 1800’s instead of 1880’s (since the later is post-Civil War (to use the northern term)). Otherwise the sentence would make no sense.

That aside, I do agree with your sentiments.

Based on college classes taken and independent research I have done over the years, it is clear that nearly all of the rank and file soldiers (along with a smaller but still significant number of their officers) of the Confederate States were not slave owners. Whether or not they personally agreed with the institution of slavery was a moot point; at the time, the “peculiar institution” was legal and a part of the economy of the South. Rather, they were men who responded to a summons to colors issued by their elected state governments and they responded as good citizens are expected to do and usually do when the state calls them to service.

In discussing this subject, I often point out that if a reasonable person sat down and wrote out a list of the possible ways to bring slavery to an end in the South, fighting a devastating war that destroyed the economy of the South, killed hundreds of thousands of able bodied men on both sides, corrupted government processess in the North and the South, and created a century or more of spiteful bitterness in the South would surely have to rank toward the bottom (if not be at the very bottom) of such a list.

So how is it that the very worst choice is the one that happened?

(BTW, is it reasonable to assume that your male Georgia ancestors, if able, did serve in one of the Confederate armed Forces?)


49 posted on 03/22/2008 5:44:48 PM PDT by Captain Rhino ( If we have the WILL to do it, there is nothing built in China that we cannot do without.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: csmusaret

I’m not sure that I understand what you’re saying. I attended a segregated public school in New Orleans in 1960. They still had “Whites only” drinking fountains and lunch counters. I got to see the desegregation of NO firsthand.


50 posted on 03/22/2008 5:56:14 PM PDT by rockrr (Global warming is to science what Islam is to religion)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-71 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson