Posted on 03/23/2008 12:20:39 PM PDT by Delacon
>>“Sadly, there is a 100 year upward trend in global temperatures. Even during the plateau from 1945 to 1976 the seas continued rising and the glaciers continued retreating.”
I thought the tone sounded like they were overstating the importance of a newspaper’s conclusion.
Clearly there are other factors besides CO2 and I don’t think its been proven that CO2 is the largest current cause.
But historically, it does appear that once something starts the temperature upward, the CO2 tends to increase and add to the temperature rise.
>>Rising sea levels are not a new idea.<<
Nope.
But they are rising and that’s a measure of average global temperature independent of other measures.
Ok, the sun is hotter - what shall we do about it? Send money to al gore?
>>You say “to overturn all that” like “all that” was some kind of proof supporting this global warming hooey. In the 1970’s the “consensus” was that we were headed for a new ice age. It was the same brand of so-called scientists predicting doom then as it is now. People better wake up and recognize what this is really all about — the destruction of what are left of free markets and capitalism.<<
Here’s the thing. There are plenty of people who oppose capitalism. Many of them would happily use global warming as an excuse to get what they wanted anyway - the end of the American way.
But our job is to be rational and evaluate the temperature and causes independent of those ass holes want. We should neither buy into or deny global based them.
For that we should look to places like the National Snow and Ice Data Center established under the Reagan administration to study glaciers. They do a report called the state of the cryosphere that studies how much water is freezing versus how much melts. This gives a temperature change measure for the earth separate from the others.
And, like all other measures, it says we have been in a warming trend. and it is continuing.
Anyway, this is an interesting site.
http://nsidc.org/sotc/
>>Why is warming always believed to be bad or, in your words, a “sad” thing?<<
Because the scientific analysis so far have been pretty uniformly negative.
>>And we’re all still here, eh?<<
Thank God. And the Constitution.
No real scientist (or engineer) would believe that a system could have been stable for a long period of time, if it were controlled by positive feedback.
Well, it's common to attack the messenger, in fact many of us are accused of exactly that when we challenge the Gore's conclusions.
The clear difference here is that the "Australians, not a definitive science source" are simply reporting the data findings of the new NASA Aqua Satellite; Al gore simply spouts opinions about facts he's incapable of understanding, unless he's acquired a climatologist or physics degree while we weren't looking.
Do you have any constructive comments about the new data?
No?
Thought so.
>>The clear difference here is that the “Australians, not a definitive science source” are simply reporting the data findings of the new NASA Aqua Satellite; Al gore simply spouts opinions about facts he’s incapable of understanding, unless he’s acquired a climatologist or physics degree while we weren’t looking.
Do you have any constructive comments about the new data?
No?
Thought so.<<
No, they are reaching an unsubstantiated conclusion about the data and thus attacking the messenger is appropriate.
Even more sadly, the rocord of how that data was acquired is spotty or outright incompetent. In fact, that the primitive satellite data is massaged and used to make those assertions when better and more reliable data is available, makes me think of outright fraud, rather than mere incompetence.
No, the "100 year trend in global temperatures" is not scientific fact, but acivism searching for and massaging "facts" to fit their predetermined conclusions. Science, that is not.
Very stupid statement here.
First, warmer is better than colder. Would you rather live in an ice age or a tropical age?
Aside from the foolish value judgement, however, the "factual" part of the statement isn't even correct. The average temperature of the Earth dropped by about .6 degrees Celsius (1.1 degrees Fahrenheit), in 2007. This is about the same amount as the total temperature increase for the previous 100 years. It's hard to establish a long term, rising trend, when you end up where you started.
There are independent measures of temperature. For example the seas are rising and continued rising even during the plateau of 1945-1976.
You should probably try to understand something about the subject, before you try to argue about it. Here is a good, lay summary, of what is known about Global Warming. It is greatly simplified, but the people who put this together are not liars, like the ones trying to panic humanity into appointing a select few to be our lords and masters forever.
I am sorry to see you falling into the trap that the losers set for us: arguing short term-trends and calling it "climate".
First you make the correct assertion that that is sophistry of the first order, then you go on to "argue" about a 31-year (0MG!) trend...
>>You should probably try to understand something about the subject, before you try to argue about it. Here is a good, lay summary, of what is known about Global Warming. It is greatly simplified, but the people who put this together are not liars, like the ones trying to panic humanity into appointing a select few to be our lords and masters forever.<<
Yeah I probably should have paid more attention to that global warming conference week before last at MIT...
Seriously, if you disagree, you can do it better without personal attacks.
We’ve got people that want to use global warming to end the American way of life. That can’t be permitted.
But to protect our country we need to deal with reality.
And the truth is that the surface temperature of the earth is rising and that historically this has been associated with rising CO2. the order that happened in is variable and within the error bars.
Its also true that making fun of me doesn’t change anything.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
No problem. You’ll go on the list there is no point in talking to about this.
I hope you are not under the illusion that help America or conservatism this way.
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