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Police race to match criminals' firepower, Congress owns blame (Propaganda alert)
The Morning Journal ^ | 03/24/2008 | The Morning Journal

Posted on 03/24/2008 7:31:13 AM PDT by holymoly

Four years after the federal ban on assault weapons was allowed to expire, police are engaged in an arms race with criminals. More and more police departments now arm patrol officers with military-style weaponry that can match criminals' firepower and even penetrate body armor.

Sadly, the lawmen had warned Congress and President Bush about this very problem in 2004 as they tried in vain to be heard over the pro-gun drumbeat of the National Rifle Association.

Last year saw the largest number of police officers killed on duty in five years, with 69 shot to death. Six times in 2007, two or more officers were killed in a single incident.

''Our departments are moving to these weapons out of necessity across the country,'' The Associated Press was told by Chief Scott Knight, an official of the International Association of Chiefs of Police. Knight's own small department in Chaska, Minn., has ordered 10 assault rifles with 30-round ammunition clips.

Back in 2004, the then-head of Knight's organization warned, ''Weapons of this nature serve no legitimate sporting or hunting purposes and have no place in our community. Unless Congress acts, the firearms of choice for terrorists, drug dealers, gang members and thugs will be back on our streets where once again our officers will be outgunned by criminals.'' That has come to pass.

Miami Police Chief John Timoney calls the new arms race with criminals ''a national problem.'' He has armed his officers with AR-15 assault rifles in response.

Los Angeles police learned the danger of being outgunned by criminals wearing body armor in 1997, when 11 officers were injured, plus two civilians, in a gun battle with two bank robbers. That, no doubt, was on the mind of Chief William Bratton when arguing in 2004 to keep the federal assault weapon ban in place, he demanded to know, ''By what right does Congress and the President of the United States put at risk the lives of the young men and women who put on those uniforms and those badges?''

Chief Bratton's question remains just as urgent today. Military style weapons have no legitimate place in civilian hands on America's streets.

Four years ago, as the ban expired, we posed this question: ''Who in Congress will have the guts now to introduce a new and even tighter ban on such killing machines?'' The question remains relevant.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; leo; liberals
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military-style weaponry that can match criminals' and even penetrate body armor.

B.F.D. What class of body armor?

Ballistic Resistance of Personal Body Armor NIJ-Standard 0101.04 (PDF)

Body Armor Performance standards
(Wikipedia; data from Underwriters Laboratories [UL Standard 752] and the United States National Institute of Justice [NIJ Standard 0101.04])

1 posted on 03/24/2008 7:31:14 AM PDT by holymoly
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To: harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; wku man; SLB; ..

2 posted on 03/24/2008 7:36:37 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: holymoly
LOL, this buffoon continues to claim that during the AW ban, everything was cool, but suddenly after it expired, gangs, thugs and cop killers just stocked up and started shooting cops.

The weapon of choice among criminals is the handgun, because you can't conceal an AR-15 in your jeans. Gosh, criminals must not be involved in hunting or sports. If any gang banger had wanted a rifle for some reason during the AW ban, they were always available to steal or buy with no flash hider. This is such a load of political crap.

So now, suddenly police departments have to militarize themselves due to the expiration of the AW ban? It sounds like hollow justification for the JBT to me.

3 posted on 03/24/2008 7:40:16 AM PDT by Sender (Feltzqlna dads if mental our Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him)
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To: Joe Brower

My city’s PD got 25 Bushmaster 7.62 M-14’s with laser sights last fall. Held one. Yeah, it was cool.


4 posted on 03/24/2008 7:40:26 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: holymoly
''By what right does Congress and the President of the United States put at risk the lives of the young men and women who put on those uniforms and those badges?''

OR...congresscritters and the ACLU DEMAND we be unarmed when attacked by some nut/criminal??

5 posted on 03/24/2008 7:41:11 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo long)
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To: holymoly
Unless Congress acts, the firearms of choice for terrorists, drug dealers, gang members and thugs will be back on our streets where once again our officers will be outgunned by criminals.'' That has come to pass.

terrorists, drug dealers, gang members and thugs are using bayonet fitted "assault weapons" these days?

6 posted on 03/24/2008 7:41:36 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools - Solon, Lawmaker of Athens)
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To: holymoly
Four years after the federal ban on assault weapons was allowed to expire, police are engaged in an arms race with criminals.

Notice how the lead implies that there's some sort of connection, while nothing in the rest of the article supports that thesis whatsoever. As far as this article goes, it would be just as valid to say, "Four years after the Indonesian tsunami, police are engaged in an arms race with criminals."

7 posted on 03/24/2008 7:41:39 AM PDT by John Jorsett (scam never sleeps)
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To: holymoly
military-style weaponry that can match criminals' and even penetrate body armor.

What an idiot A 30-30 from a lever action can penetrate body armor. Just about ANY bottle-neck cartridge can penetrate body armor.

Putting rifles in the hands of good qualified officers is a smart thing. It gives them a depth of confrontation where they can engage at a distance, rather than closer, which is needed for the shotgun.

8 posted on 03/24/2008 7:43:30 AM PDT by Pistolshot (Remember, no matter how bad your life is, someone is watching and enjoying your suffering.)
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To: holymoly

If HONEST citizens were packing heat, they could probably put these perps down during one of their EARLY crimes (that liquor store or 7-11 holdup) and BEFORE they graduate to full assaults on cops. Has anyone else noticed that only the really stupid criminals hit pawn shops during business hours? Could that be because most proprietors of same are ARMED??

Some of those armed citizens might even be in position to take a clean head shot while these guys were trying to gun down the cops.

Do the politicians and their APPOINTED police chiefs REALLY think bad guys will turn in their guns? Duuuhhhhhh...!

WHY THEY WANT OUR GUNS!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j73SsNFgBO4


9 posted on 03/24/2008 7:47:37 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: holymoly

Didn’t the DC Sniper and the West Hollywood Bank Robbery occur during the so called Assault Weapons Ban?


10 posted on 03/24/2008 7:48:41 AM PDT by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
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To: holymoly
" ... Chief Bratton's question remains just as urgent today. Military style weapons have no legitimate place in civilian hands on America's streets ... "


Contrare, political Pimp-in Chief Bratton, and The Morning Journal rag.

Military style weapons are exactly what will be needed to water the Tree of Liberty.


ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒE

11 posted on 03/24/2008 7:50:22 AM PDT by G.Mason (Duty, Honor, Country)
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To: holymoly; CGTRWK
Exactly ONE of those 69 was shot by someone using an "assault weapon". Source NLEOMF (PDF). I can find this out with google and three minutes; disgustingly typical that the AP just leaves a lie like that standing. 23 posted on 03/23/2008 12:26:10 PM EDT by CGTRWK

Thanks to CGTRWK. This story is journalistic malpractice at it's worst! Writer & editor should be fired.

12 posted on 03/24/2008 7:52:50 AM PDT by papertyger (changing words quickly metastasizes into changing facts -- Ann Coulter)
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To: holymoly
Last year saw the largest number of police officers killed on duty in five years, with 69 shot to death.

Given the article doesn't have statistics to back it my bet is that most of them were not killed by "assault rifles".

13 posted on 03/24/2008 7:53:42 AM PDT by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
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To: holymoly
"Last year saw the largest number of police officers killed on duty in five years, with 69 shot to death."

Gee, I wonder why they don't mention how many of these 69 were killed by the so-called assault weapons they want banned?

14 posted on 03/24/2008 7:54:13 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: papertyger

Haha I swear I didn’t read your post first


15 posted on 03/24/2008 7:55:03 AM PDT by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
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To: holymoly
...''By what right does Congress and the President of the United States put at risk the lives of the young men and women who put on those uniforms and those badges?''

Bratton is somewhat Constitutionally challenged.

From a related thread here: "In 2007, according to preliminary numbers compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 69 officers were shot to death, up from 52 in 2006 and the most in five years."

That "the most in five years" brings us back to 2002 when the assault weapons ban was in effect and had been in effect for some years.

16 posted on 03/24/2008 7:55:04 AM PDT by decimon
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To: holymoly
This editorial.....

There's zero correlation between the expiration of the AWB and LEO's getting shot.

HOWEVER, take a look at the rise in the number of gang-banging ILLEGALS invading the USA and LEO's getting shot and THEN you'll have something Bunky. Those maggots have no respect for law and order or the value of human life. They'll cap a cop in a heart beat so they don't get deported.

17 posted on 03/24/2008 7:55:40 AM PDT by Condor51 (If my nose was runnin' money, honey I'd blow it all on you.)
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To: Domandred

The so-called assault weapons ban didn’t ban so-called assault weapons. I purchased my Colt AR-15 during the assault weapons ban. The only difference between mine and one you could get today is that mine doesn’t have a bayonet lug.


18 posted on 03/24/2008 7:58:16 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: holymoly
Hmmm. Now what else do we have more of in the past four years other than this supposed increase in "assault weapons"?

Deputy Beaten By Angry Mob After Responding To Noise Complaint

http://www.wftv.com/news/15688136/detail.html

19 posted on 03/24/2008 7:58:16 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Benedict Arnold was against the Terrorist Surveillance Program)
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To: Condor51

From what I see down the road in Philadelphia, to say nothing of certain towns in South Florida, its no so much a case of the illegals committing crimes (although this is a factor), but of the “second baby boom” (aka the “crack baby boom”) who were born in the mid-late 80s/early 90s hitting the streets, to say nothing of the large number of folks who were locked up during the 1990s being paroled.


20 posted on 03/24/2008 8:01:46 AM PDT by Clemenza (I Live in New Jersey for the Same Reason People Slow Down to Look at Car Crashes)
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To: holymoly

The majority of cops go through their entire career without ever firing their gun, whether that be an ‘assault rifle’ or the standard issue sidearm.


21 posted on 03/24/2008 8:03:18 AM PDT by eclecticEel (oh well, Hunter 2012 anyone?)
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To: holymoly

These people are plain stupid. I’d love to have a nice little press conference with them.

It would be in a junior high school, with their regular desks. If I had one person to help me out, it might be Ted Nugent.

I’d proceed to treat them like little children, explaining to them that a .22 is the chosen caliber of criminals.


22 posted on 03/24/2008 8:04:34 AM PDT by wastedyears (The US Military is what goes Bump in the night.)
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To: holymoly

Did some followup google searching and it seems that Police Chief Scott Knight has made the news several times as an anti-gunner. Did some checking on his town of Chaska Minn and seems pretty damned peaceful there. Nice and quiet and lower then average crime rate for Minnesota.

Me thinks Scott Knight just wanted to buy those AR-15’s for his police force and needed to find an excuse.


23 posted on 03/24/2008 8:05:32 AM PDT by Domandred (McCain's 'R' is a typo that has never been corrected)
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To: Sender
LOL, this buffoon continues to claim that during the AW ban, everything was cool, but suddenly after it expired, gangs, thugs and cop killers just stocked up and started shooting cops.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

"Good afternoon my good man. I and a dozen of my amigos from the Mara Salvatrucha fraternity would like to purchase several AR-15 semi-automatic weapons so that we might engage in self-defense preparations as well as some leisurely watermelon plinking. Would you be a good chap and wrap those up and throw in a couple of thousand rounds of 5.56mm before the next LAPD shift change? Thank you ever so much."

24 posted on 03/24/2008 8:05:54 AM PDT by RoadKingSE (How do you know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a muzzle flash?)
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To: holymoly

The left-wing extremists in Cleveland are getting panicky that the US Supremes won’t rule in their favor?


25 posted on 03/24/2008 8:07:26 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: wastedyears

There was actually a guy in the Strip District over the weekend that for some unknown reason started firing a .22 pistol at a passing car. He was very unlucky that the car was an unmarked police car carrying 2 homocide detectives that stopped, got out and proceeded to put 7 rounds into him.


26 posted on 03/24/2008 8:09:21 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: Jaxter
>the car was an unmarked police car carrying 2 homocide detectives that stopped, got out and proceeded to put 7 rounds into him


27 posted on 03/24/2008 8:11:08 AM PDT by theFIRMbss
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To: Jaxter
Good morning.

How many were shot with their own weapon?

Michael Frazier

28 posted on 03/24/2008 8:13:14 AM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender, no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: massgopguy
I didn't know that Bushmaster made M-14s.
29 posted on 03/24/2008 8:14:38 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: G.Mason
Military style weapons are exactly what will be needed to water the Tree of Liberty.

Exactly! The Second Amendment was intended for average citizens to keep an bear military-class arms to combat an enemy military. Of course such weapons would then be able to combat a police force gone rogue.

30 posted on 03/24/2008 8:16:27 AM PDT by Solitar ("My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them." -- Barry Goldwater)
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To: brazzaville; Jaxter

On average, about half.


31 posted on 03/24/2008 8:18:09 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (The average piece of junk is more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. - Ratatouille)
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To: VeniVidiVici

see my new tagline.


32 posted on 03/24/2008 8:24:40 AM PDT by papertyger (YOU'RE A RACIST! YOU'RE A RACIST! (looking for a job in journalism))
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To: holymoly
That slurping noise you hear is the Morning Journal's editoral staff's collective tongues licking the anal orifices of the jackbooted freedom haters.
33 posted on 03/24/2008 8:24:50 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: RoadKingSE
"Certainly, amigos. Would you like the latest Bloomberg collection variants with brick-and-mortar prints, or perhaps the more reliable Kalashnikov gas system uppers? Excellent. I'll get the ammo."

"Now, I'll just need your valid USA drivers license and we'll do a quick computer check. No, it must be American. Yes, even if you pay in cash, I'm sorry. No, you can't have your sister come in and pick them up. No, I don't want your sister. I'm sorry, but you'll just have to shop in a poorly-regulated Southern state where gun show dealers illegally sell machine guns out of the trunks of their cars, placing the lives of our brave police officers in danger. Or you can just ask anyone on a streetcorner in LA. You can get anything you want. We're bound by the law, you understand. You boys come back when you're legal, OK?"

34 posted on 03/24/2008 8:25:27 AM PDT by Sender (Feltzqlna dads if mental our Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him)
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To: Jaxter

Are the officers ok?


35 posted on 03/24/2008 8:26:59 AM PDT by B4Ranch ("In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." FDR)
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To: Joe Brower

Not an M-14 or AR but here is a BM 7.62

http://www.bushmaster.com/bcs/BCWBCSR20.asp?zoom_highlight=7%2E62

I do think the 6.8mm’s are cute.


36 posted on 03/24/2008 8:28:20 AM PDT by PeteB570 (NRA - Life member and Black Rifle owner)
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To: B4Ranch

I think one of them was hit in the arm. I don’t think it was serious. I’ll see if I can find a link.


37 posted on 03/24/2008 8:31:23 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: holymoly

Militarized “law enforcement” agencies are the standing army our Founders feared.


38 posted on 03/24/2008 8:32:43 AM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Guns donít kill people, criminals and the governments that create them do.)
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To: B4Ranch
I was wrong. The detective was shot in the lower back. This all happened about 2 blocks from where I work. I don't think the perp was a local as the Spaghetti Warehouse is 1 block from one of the largest police stations in the 'burgh. Also, there was another fatal shooting about 4 blocks from this one on the same night(Friday).

LINK HERE!

39 posted on 03/24/2008 8:45:53 AM PDT by Jaxter ("Vivit Post Funera Virtus")
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To: Beelzebubba
Militarized “law enforcement” agencies are the standing army our Founders feared.

Exactly correct. So, immediately after first guaranteeing the right to free speech, they foresaw that problem and stated the solution.

Something about hunting, or sports, I believe.

40 posted on 03/24/2008 8:49:25 AM PDT by Sender (Feltzqlna dads if mental our Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him)
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To: Clemenza
*** From what I see down the road in Philadelphia, to say nothing of certain towns in South Florida, its no so much a case of the illegals committing crimes (although this is a factor), but of the “second baby boom” (aka the “crack baby boom”) who were born in the mid-late 80s/early 90s hitting the streets, to say nothing of the large number of folks who were locked up during the 1990s being paroled. ***

'Those people' (that's ok I'm a 'Typical White Person' /s) are definitely adding to the overall crime rate (Philly is a quagmire). But overall, to me it seems the LEO's are getting killed mostly by illegal gang bangers. Or maybe the MSM is focusing more on them and ignoring / glossing over, inner city Blacks shooting Cops (again Philly aside).

41 posted on 03/24/2008 8:56:06 AM PDT by Condor51 (If my nose was runnin' money, honey I'd blow it all on you.)
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To: Beelzebubba
Militarized "law enforcement" agencies are the standing army our Founders feared.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but if there's a bright spot to their existence, it's that they're not really trained to handle organized resistance.

SWAT losses would become quickly unsustainable if they lost their standard advantage of overwhelming numerical superiority.

42 posted on 03/24/2008 8:57:51 AM PDT by papertyger (YOU'RE A RACIST! YOU'RE A RACIST! (looking for a job in journalism))
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To: Jaxter

Thanks


43 posted on 03/24/2008 9:00:15 AM PDT by B4Ranch ("In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." FDR)
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To: massgopguy
My city’s PD got 25 Bushmaster 7.62 M-14’s with laser sights last fall. Held one. Yeah, it was cool.

B.S.

Bushmaster doesn't make a "M14" or anything like it. Nor do they make anything in 7.62. And no LE armorer would put a "laser" sight on a M14 or a 7.62 - holographic yes - lasers on rifles are for the wanna-be mall ninjas. (which you sound like)

44 posted on 03/24/2008 9:06:11 AM PDT by NY.SS-Bar9 (DR #1692)
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To: Condor51
You would think that, coming from countries where the cops are often crooks themselves, that would be the case.

They will also learn the hard way that cops in the U S of A are a lot more expensive that "La Policia" in Guate' City or Puebla.

45 posted on 03/24/2008 9:09:42 AM PDT by Clemenza (I Live in New Jersey for the Same Reason People Slow Down to Look at Car Crashes)
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To: holymoly
"By what right does Congress and the President of the United States put at risk the lives of the young men and women who put on those uniforms and those badges?"

By what right does the chief elevate the rights of the public SERVANTS above the public they claim to serve????? Our rights are SUPPOSED to be superior to those we employ.

46 posted on 03/24/2008 9:12:14 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Oztrich Boy

“Unless Congress acts, the firearms of choice for terrorists, drug dealers, gang members and thugs will be back on our streets where once again our officers will be outgunned by criminals.’’ That has come to pass.”

What a crock from this clown. I come from a law enforcement family. They all understood the risks when they swore their oaths. If there are cops overly worried that their going to be shot then they should have become librarians.


47 posted on 03/24/2008 9:20:35 AM PDT by Towed_Jumper (Stephen Hopkins: Founding Father who had Cerebral Palsy.."My hand trembles, my heart does not.")
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To: Towed_Jumper

Exactly. The rights and priveliges of the guy choosing to serve the public cannot be so important they are used as a reason to restrict the liberties and freedoms of that same public, otherwise he’s not serving them, they’re serving him. Anyone who’s willing to take the job with that mindset, I salute. I couldn’t do it.


48 posted on 03/24/2008 9:37:15 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: holymoly
Los Angeles police learned the danger of being outgunned by criminals wearing body armor in 1997, when 11 officers were injured, plus two civilians, in a gun battle with two bank robbers.

Ah, wasn't that before the AWB expired? These police state generals will never be satisfied until the entire population of subjects is neutered and the enforcers are armed with state of the art weaponry and gear. Their one track mindset can't comprehend concepts such as they work for us, we have a constitution, etc. When will we start firing dangerous people like this?

49 posted on 03/24/2008 9:44:31 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: holymoly
Miami Police Chief John Timoney calls the new arms race with criminals ''a national problem.'' He has armed his officers with AR-15 assault rifles in response.

This Bozo is facing corruption charges for the use of a Lexus "donated" by a local dealership for the chief's fine work in the "community." He also just got a vote of "no confidence" from the rank and file. He came (IIRC) from Boston and fit right in with the liberal gun ban crowd in South Florida. With any sort of luck he'll go the same way his fellow gun banner from Broward, Ken Jenne, went (handcuffed) and in a shorter period of time.

Funny how all the folks who want to ban our guns all have these really ugly skeletons hidden deep in their closets. Teddy Kennedy had Chappaquidick, Clinton had monica and filegate and white water and .....so on etc. I'll bet chuckie schumer has something rattling around he'd like kept secret.

50 posted on 03/24/2008 9:44:40 AM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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