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Islam intrinsically violent - convert (baptized by Pope at Vigil Mass)
Herald Sun ^ | March 23, 2008

Posted on 03/24/2008 10:16:51 AM PDT by NYer

ITALIAN editor and critic of Islamic extremism Magdi Allam, who converted to Catholicism from Islam and was baptised by Pope Benedict XVI, today branded his former faith as intrinsically violent.

"I had to do this (abandon Islam)", Allam wrote in a long letter to the Italian daily Corriere della Sera.

"Beyond ... the phenomenon of extremists and Islamist terrorism at the global level, the root of evil is inherent to a physiologically violent and historically conflictual Islam," wrote the Egyptian-born journalist, who says he has received death threats and is under police protection.

One of seven adults baptised during an Easter vigil yesterday evening, Allam, 55, is an editorial writer and deputy editor at Corriere.

Regarding a combative tone that has made him famous in Italy, Allam wrote: "Over the years my spirit has been freed from the obscurantism of an ideology that legitimises lies and deception, violent death that leads to homicide and suicide, blind submission to tyranny."

He described Catholicism as "an authentic religion of Truth, Life and Freedom".

By baptising Allam in the public ceremony, the Pope "sent an explicit and revolutionary message to a church that until now has been too cautious in the conversion of Muslims ... because of the fear of being unable to protect the converted who are condemned to death for apostasy," Allam said.

"Thousands of people in Italy have converted to Islam and practise their faith serenely," he wrote.

"But there are also thousands of Muslims who have converted to Christianity who are forced to hide their new faith out of fear of being killed by Islamist terrorists."

Allam adopted the Christian name of Cristiano (Christian), not a common name in Italy.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.au ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: allam; bxvi; catholic; crushislam; islam; magdiallam; muslimbaptism; muslims
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Pope Benedict XVI baptises journalist Magdi Allam (R) as he celebrates a Easter Vigil mass in Saint Peter's Basilica at the Vatican March 22, 2008. Pope Benedict led the world's Catholics into Easter on Saturday at a Vatican service where he baptised Allam, a Muslim-born convert who is one of Italy's most famous and controversial journalists. (Dario Pignatelli/Reuters)

1 posted on 03/24/2008 10:16:52 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
Allam, who has been outspoken about the conflict in the Middle East, in 2006 organised a demonstration in Rome in support of Christians in the Muslim world.


Magdi Allam, right, Italy's most prominent Muslim commentator, receives holy communion after being baptized by Pope Benedict XVI, at left, during the Easter vigil mass in St. Peter's Basilica, at the Vatican, Saturday, March 22, 2008. In an Easter Mass Sunday celebrated on the steps of St. Peter's Basilica to mark Catholicism's most important day, he praised conversions to Christianity, only hours after he baptized a prominent Muslim. (AP Photo/Alessandra Tarantino)

Catholic Ping
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2 posted on 03/24/2008 10:18:35 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer

Both the Pope and Mr. Allam have shown extraordinary courage in a world that trembles at the mention of Islam.


3 posted on 03/24/2008 10:19:34 AM PDT by Spok (Ignorance is no excuse-it's the real thing.)
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To: NYer
SILENCE! I KILL YOU!
4 posted on 03/24/2008 10:22:16 AM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: NYer

God Bless Magdi Allam.


5 posted on 03/24/2008 10:25:50 AM PDT by SolidWood (All conservative effort into retaking Congress!)
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To: NYer

Linking religions to violence in public can only be done when one’s own religion has a spotless record of peace and love. Of course, the catholic church has an impeccable past of religious tolerance.


6 posted on 03/24/2008 10:26:16 AM PDT by aristotleman (...in wolves's clothing)
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To: NYer

The death threats are only proving Magdi Allam is right about the nature of Islam. I once saw a German Neo-Nazi on 60 Minutes say that Islam was the only religion Hitler respected. He respected it because he saw it as an aggressive, warlike religion. He despised the humane, peaceful message of Christianity.


7 posted on 03/24/2008 10:26:37 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY ((((Truth to a Liberal, is like a crucifix to a vampire))))
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To: NYer

May the merciful Hand of God protect Magdi Allam. It takes a brave man to face down the death threats and attempts on his life that will surely come in the days to follow.


8 posted on 03/24/2008 10:26:45 AM PDT by PeterFinn (I am not voting for McCain. No way, no how.)
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To: aristotleman

When was the last time the Catholic Church advocated killing nonbelievers?


9 posted on 03/24/2008 10:27:24 AM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: aristotleman

The past is the past. The RCC has issued numerous apologies for past wrongs and if that’s not enough for you then to hell with you.


10 posted on 03/24/2008 10:27:42 AM PDT by PeterFinn (I am not voting for McCain. No way, no how.)
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To: NYer

> ITALIAN editor and critic of Islamic extremism Magdi Allam, who converted to Catholicism from Islam and was baptised by Pope Benedict XVI, today branded his former faith as intrinsically violent.

My initial reaction to this was “well Duhhh what was your first clue?”

Then I thought about it quite a bit harder and realized the remarkable courage this man has demonstrated, and what a stinging blow it would be for our enemy. He is much more credible and articulate than any of the western turncoats and traitors that have taken up arms on behalf of the Taliban/al Qaeda.

And good on the Pope — another brave man — for allowing this to happen in such a public manner.

May God bless them both.


11 posted on 03/24/2008 10:28:02 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: aristotleman

Oh, grow up. The reality in the modern world is that one religion is orders of magnitude worse than all the others put together on issues with “peace and love”, as you put it, and not recognizing this and attempting your weird moral equivalency argument is childish at best. This isn’t 1200AD any more.


12 posted on 03/24/2008 10:30:06 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (<===Typical White American)
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To: NYer
"Allam adopted the Christian name of Cristiano (Christian) ... "

In your face!

On a serious note, this event once again makes me think of Ronald Reagan's greatest speech, "A Time for Choosing":

You and I have the courage to say to our enemies, "There is a price we will not pay." There is a point beyond which they must not advance.

Winston Churchill said that "the destiny of man is not measured by material computation. When great forces are on the move in the world, we learn we are spirits--not animals." And he said, "There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty."

13 posted on 03/24/2008 10:30:40 AM PDT by magellan
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To: PeterFinn

http://www.persecution.net/country/mexico.htm


14 posted on 03/24/2008 10:31:29 AM PDT by fishtank (Fenced BORDERS, English LANGUAGE, Patriotic CULTURE: A good plan.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
today branded his former faith as intrinsically violent.

We have converts from many faiths, and from total unbelief.

I can't imagine former Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus condemning their original faith as "intrinsically violent".

But for a former mohammedan to say that just doesn't strike me as odd.

15 posted on 03/24/2008 10:33:29 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Slapshot68
When was the last time the Catholic Church advocated killing nonbelievers?

1834

That was the year the Spanish Inquisition was finally disbanded.

16 posted on 03/24/2008 10:34:32 AM PDT by Wil H
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To: NYer

I don’t understand why this had to be done in the public eye. What is to gain from that?


17 posted on 03/24/2008 10:34:39 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture™)
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To: PeterFinn; aristotleman

Don’t bother with aristotleman, he’s just mad that this brave man went to the fundementalist islamic and Christian’s common enemy, the Roman Catholic Church.


18 posted on 03/24/2008 10:35:45 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: steve86
I don’t understand why this had to be done in the public eye. What is to gain from that?

So you are saying that Mr. Allam should hide his faith.

19 posted on 03/24/2008 10:37:19 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: steve86

It means “in your face” to Islam and should be an invitation for more Muslims to convert.


20 posted on 03/24/2008 10:38:40 AM PDT by SolidWood (All conservative effort into retaking Congress!)
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To: SolidWood

“God Bless Magdi Allam.”

He has.


21 posted on 03/24/2008 10:41:07 AM PDT by ought-six
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To: aristotleman
"......can only be done when..."

Cliff? Cliff Clavin, is that you?

22 posted on 03/24/2008 10:43:04 AM PDT by 4woodenboats (defendourtroops.org defendourmarines.org)
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To: aristotleman

I enjoyed your comment and concur. While the church has done away with its past abusive ways, it has also done away with many positive theological aspects, particularly reverence for angels and worship of the Divine Mother. Then there is the unfortunate infiltration of leftist clergy in many of central and south American churches, and some in the U.S. Then the fact that many masses have become folk cumbaya sing-a-longs. So quite amamzing that in relation to Islam, the church is a beacon of light.


23 posted on 03/24/2008 10:43:34 AM PDT by Rennes Templar ( Never underestimate the difficulty of changing false beliefs by facts.)
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To: NYer

The courage this man displays is just beyond belief. May God keep him safe.


24 posted on 03/24/2008 10:43:49 AM PDT by 353FMG (Vote for the Person who will do the least damage to our country.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter; magellan; ArrogantBustard; PeterFinn
realized the remarkable courage this man has demonstrated, and what a stinging blow it would be for our enemy. He is much more credible and articulate than any of the western turncoats and traitors that have taken up arms on behalf of the Taliban/al Qaeda.

Thank you all for your insightful comments. Like many of you, I too have pondered this at great length. The Pope is the only one today who has challenged the Muslims to come to the table for a frank discussion. Those meetings will begin shortly. This pope is not a showman and must have carefully weighed the impact of Allam's Baptism on worldwide television.

The real question is how did Magdi Allam arrive at this faith conversion. When asked that by a group of reporters, he replied:

"Undoubtedly the most extraordinary and significant encounter in the decision to convert was that with Pope Benedict XVI,'' Allam said. He said he admired the pope for his skill in laying out the relationship "between faith and reason as the basis of authentic religion and human civilization.''

FULL TEXT

It should be interesting to see how the conferences with the 142 Muslim clerics progress. If not Pope Benedict XVI, who?

25 posted on 03/24/2008 10:43:59 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Spok
in a world that trembles at the mention of Islam.

The mention of Islam gives me an itchy trigger finger.

26 posted on 03/24/2008 10:44:32 AM PDT by scooter2 (The greatest threat to the security of the United States is the Democratic Party.)
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To: aristotleman

“Linking religions to violence in public can only be done when one’s own religion has a spotless record of peace and love. Of course, the catholic church has an impeccable past of religious tolerance.

What a crock. By your twisted logic someone who has sinned, and has admitted and confessed to those sins, and has sought and received reconciliation (forgiveness), can not ever venture an opinion on those sins, and how they were wrong. Thankfully, God is not closed minded like you are.


27 posted on 03/24/2008 10:45:36 AM PDT by ought-six
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To: aristotleman

Sure, but not currently. Currrently the violence is coming out of Islam, not the Roman Church. We have to deal with the present, not the past.

Besides, during all the time that Christianity had its violent moments, when was Islam ever peaceful?


28 posted on 03/24/2008 10:48:44 AM PDT by chesley (Where's the omelet? -- Orwell)
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To: aristotleman

...and those who support the war should go and fight it?
Don’t believe the lies about the Crusades and the Inquisition; one was defensive, the other much less violent than we have been led to believe.


29 posted on 03/24/2008 10:49:58 AM PDT by steve8714 (The poor you have always with you-unless you abort them out of existence.)
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To: NYer

Wonderful news! May God protect him from his former brethren!


30 posted on 03/24/2008 10:53:20 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Wil H

> 1834
>
> That was the year the Spanish Inquisition was finally disbanded.

So roughly one hundred years before the rise of Hitler, or a mere sixty years after the American Revolution.

Not much will have changed in the Islamic world since 1834. The same can’t be said for our Civilization.


31 posted on 03/24/2008 10:55:24 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: steve86

> I don’t understand why this had to be done in the public eye. What is to gain from that?

My initial reaction to this was, “Well, duuuhhhhhhh....” Then I thought about it quite a bit harder, and decided that my first reaction was probably correct.


32 posted on 03/24/2008 10:57:34 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: fishtank

So a bunch of turd-worlders are killing people and this reflects on Roman Catholicism exactly how? Did the Pope issue an Encyclical authorizing this? No, he did not. Did Mexico’s Cardinal issue an Encyclical authorizing this? No, he did not. Did a bunch of communist rebels in Chiapas murder people under the color of religion? Yes, they did.


33 posted on 03/24/2008 10:58:12 AM PDT by PeterFinn (I am not voting for McCain. No way, no how.)
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To: fishtank

Mexico isn’t even a Catholic country anymore! The socialist revolution there in the first part of the 20th century devastated Catholicism there, and most folk north of the border have no idea.


34 posted on 03/24/2008 10:59:04 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: aristotleman

“Linking religions to violence in public can only be done when one’s own religion has a spotless record of peace and love. “

Your argument is specious at best. We are all sinners and strive to accept Christ as our savior and can only try to be better in the eyes of God. That is why God has given us a path for forgiveness

The cult of Islam has never strived to be better, just to convert, by any means, as many as possible to a cult of abject moral degradation, murder, and subjugation to the cult hierarchy. Nothing more.


35 posted on 03/24/2008 11:01:03 AM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: Dane

I don’t respond to troll posts.


36 posted on 03/24/2008 11:03:02 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture™)
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To: aristotleman

ya....everybody’s gotta keep their mouth shut, cuz nobody’s perfect.....

Nice Logic..../sarc


37 posted on 03/24/2008 11:03:23 AM PDT by G Larry (HILLARY CARE = DYING IN LINE!)
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To: Spok

Benedict: he sure knows how to pope.


38 posted on 03/24/2008 11:04:04 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (He's XVI ~~ He's beautiful ~~ And he's mine.)
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To: NYer

I didn’t see any baptism taking place. I see a man in some kind of helmet or something on the left holding something on the head of a guy bent over a bowl or something.


39 posted on 03/24/2008 11:04:06 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: aristotleman
Linking religions to violence in public can only be done when one’s own religion has a spotless record of peace and love.

Nice, baseless assertion. In fact, this is about as logic free as I see from most leftists.

40 posted on 03/24/2008 11:05:03 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: FreedomPoster

And if he’s referring to the Crusades -

the CRUSADES WERE IN

RESPONSE

TO ISLAMIC ENCROACHMENT AND BARBARISM.


41 posted on 03/24/2008 11:06:01 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: ought-six

This is EXACTLY the debate tactic used by the left.

Since there is no one without sin,

there can be no standards of behavior by which to judge people’s behavior.


42 posted on 03/24/2008 11:07:25 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Not much will have changed in the Islamic world since 1834. Actually, since the 12th or 13th century. And it's because of the Koran and Islam. Since the Koran is "perfect and complete", no scientific, philosophical, or societal changes are possible without being apostasy.
43 posted on 03/24/2008 11:09:12 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: NYer

The conference with the 142 muslim clerics will collpase when they don’t get their way.


44 posted on 03/24/2008 11:09:16 AM PDT by PeterFinn (I am not voting for McCain. No way, no how.)
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To: G Larry
ya....everybody’s gotta keep their mouth shut, cuz nobody’s perfect.....

Leftists attempt this line of "reasoning" on a daily basis.

45 posted on 03/24/2008 11:10:07 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: NYer
Does there happen to be a text of Mr. Allam’s profession of Christianity available anywhere. It might be interesting (or disturbing?) to read it.
46 posted on 03/24/2008 11:10:12 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: Slapshot68

“When was the last time the Catholic Church advocated killing nonbelievers?”


Put any date on there you want and it will be too recent for me.


47 posted on 03/24/2008 11:13:19 AM PDT by John Leland 1789
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To: aristotleman

The Catholic Church has done what it was supposed to: preach the Gospel and make converts.

The Church is an organization of human beings; obviously, some of them have made mistakes at times, and corruption can definitely enter in. But there is nothing violent in the message of Christianity or in the Church’s preaching of this - which, on the contrary, has led to thousands of Christian misssionaries over the ages having laid down their lives to bring the Faith to the world. All of the Apostles with the exception of John died as martyrs, and it has been that way ever since.

By contrast, Islam preaches violence and violence is its normal way of being spread.


48 posted on 03/24/2008 11:15:45 AM PDT by livius
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To: NYer
History has a way of ratcheting up the stakes, because nature really can't tolerate a vacuum of truth for long.

The Game, as they say, is afoot.

Amen.

49 posted on 03/24/2008 11:18:14 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Free New York)
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To: John Leland 1789
This is the Profession of Faith used in the rite for those to be baptized and receive their first Communion. Usually this would be children, but since the new Christian Allam also received his first Communion, I presume the same profession would be used.
50 posted on 03/24/2008 11:18:17 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Jesus, my Lord, my God, my All.)
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