Posted on 03/27/2008 11:29:45 AM PDT by rhema
Residents of Austin, Texas, home of the state's government and flagship university, have very refined social consciences, if they do say so themselves, and they do say so, speaking via bumper stickers. Don R. Willett, a justice of the state Supreme Court, has commuted behind bumpers proclaiming "Better a Bleeding Heart Than None at All," "Practice Random Acts of Kindness and Senseless Beauty," "The Moral High Ground Is Built on Compassion," "Arms Are For Hugging," "Will Work (When the Jobs Come Back From India)," "Jesus Is a Liberal," "G-d Wants Spiritual Fruits, Not Religious Nuts," "The Road to Hell Is Paved With Republicans," "Republicans Are People Too — Mean, Selfish, Greedy People" and so on. But Willett thinks Austin subverts a stereotype: "The belief that liberals care more about the poor may scratch a partisan or ideological itch, but the facts are hostile witnesses."
Sixteen months ago, Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at Syracuse University, published "Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism." The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than conservatives.
If many conservatives are liberals who have been mugged by reality, Brooks, a registered independent, is, as a reviewer of his book said, a social scientist who has been mugged by data. They include these findings:
Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).
Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.
Residents of the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 gave smaller percentages of their incomes to charity than did residents of states that voted for George Bush.
Bush carried 24 of the 25 states where charitable giving was above average.
(Excerpt) Read more at jewishworldreview.com ...
ping
Doesn't surprise me in the least. Most libs I know are cheap scoundrels.
That's not a surprise at all.
Don't you realize they only do compassionate things with OTHER PEOPLE's money!
I’m surprised that the blue states give that much. All of the liberals I know give next to nothing.
Makes perfect sense. Liberals have to smear republicans with the “evil greedy” stereotype out of their own guilt for saying that they care about people without demonstrating it. Then to further alleviate their conscience, they demand to take your money and have the government spend it for social causes. Not only does this generate dependency, but it takes away any “moral credit” that the “evil republican” would have had for giving charitably of their own free will. Libs believe that they receive the “moral credit” for spending your money.
Yeah, and invariably, “liberals” will refer to conservatives as “greedy”.
What’s more “greedy”? Wanting to keep what you yourself earned through your talent, ambition, and wise investment?
Or wanting to use the force of government to confiscate other people’s wealth so that you feel good about yourself while not sacrificing anything?
The answer’s obvious, and inarguable.
Man, do I despise libs.
Many libs like to bring up the "Jesus card" or something related to religion and giving.
I always throw it back in their face that advocating socialism counts for NOTHING toward their own personal obligation to help the poor.
My lib relatives are cheapskates and mooches.
Correct! Why? To assauge their own guilt. They are cheap and bitter. Stealing from Peter to pay Paul takes the edge off their anger. A little.
Liberals try to pass themselves off as “compassionate” by voting to have government (read: conservatives) do their charitable bidding for them.
I wasn’t the least bit surprised to see the 1% contributions rate of the NObombas. With liberals, it’s all about someone else’s money.
Bringing this down to a personal level, if I ask myself the question: "Can I count part of my taxes toward my tithe?", the answer is NO!
Even though a big part of my taxes goes toward transferring money to the poor, government transfers do not help the poor. If I give to private charity, or even better through a church, the money distributed is not given out willy-nilly, but has conditions attached. Even if they are implicit rather than explicit. You must listen to a sermon before you get a free meal, that kind of stuff.
In many instances, there is significant mentoring associated with charity.
This mentoring is anathema to the liberals who think that every poor person has a "right" to help. My belief is that accepting charity means you have failed to make you own way in our world, and in addition to money, food, or rent, you need instruction in how to make you own way.
Recall some pizza delivery guy who would, for fun, ask the customer who they were voting for in the upcoming election. He found that conservatives usually tipped, libs usually didn’t.
The left at its core is about “indiscriminateness” -
to attach conditions to help would be to “judge” the behavior or lifestyle of those requesting the help.
No strings, as well, keeps them coming back, forever, dependent on gov’t and the left.
Carolyn
“Who Really Cares?” is an important book.
This probably is that study. Although Will's current column is timely in this season of overheated Democrat campaign rhetoric, the book he references came out at the end of 2006.
Can you honestly say that you have always reported all of your income?
The problem boils down to this... if you fail to assist the poor, you will pay in other ways... you will pay in increase in crime, and money spent in jails and prisons...
there are people who need help... the mentally handicapped, ill, or seniors who outlived their money, people who have faced unexpected hardships
unexpected deaths, divorce etc...
Why should somebody have to go through a church to get money? What if a church contradicts their religion, beliefs or values?
I had a tenant once who expected to pay me via the multiple churches she had requested income from, and out of a 900 a month rent, she went to four churches to get money. Each wanted to meet with me, and verify her rent. Each month she tried to pay me this way, through a different church... this was highly convoluted and impractical approach to helping this person.( and she didn’t even need the help- this was her scam- get it from the church)
Section 8 would have been more effective.
And tell me why I should be given a tax break for buying rental property? I am glad to take it, but why should I get thousands of dollars a year benefits for depreciation when my homes appreciate, don’t depreciate? ( the exception being the last couple of years)
Far more money is given each year in tax benefits for the rich
Far more of our money goes for tax expenditures than budget expenditures. Why do you think Bill Gates and Warren Buffet believe the rich pay too little in tax proportionate to the poor?
They understand that they pay less percentage of tax than does the clerical help they employ.
The last place I want regulating money is the church
There are many people who have worked hard their entire life, and were met with some unexpected event that all of their wealth was wiped out... it is naive to believe that all people who have accepted charity are scamming or are not needing it. The last thing we need to do is return to people on the streets...
and if you think the church is the solution, think again...
how quickly we forget the churches from the 1980’s...
“A liberal’s compassion is only limited by the depth of your pockets.”
Yep, I have. It may sound dumb to you, but I have.
...if you fail to assist the poor, you will pay in other ways...
It seems to me that government assistance to the poor has escalated significantly over the past 50 years. So has crime, our prison budgets are at record highs, etc. Based on actual results, government handouts have made the problem worse, not better.
Why should somebody have to go through a church to get money? What if a church contradicts their religion, beliefs or values?
Well, a job would be a good bet here.
I had a tenant once who expected to pay me via the multiple churches she had requested income from...
She was a scammer, I would have evicted her in a heartbeat (and yes I do own rental properties). Why didn't you tell all of the churches the problem you were having? When I see someone being scammed, I feel a moral obligation to tell them about it.
And tell me why I should be given a tax break for buying rental property?
I don't understand the tax code either, but I know that if taxes were reduced it would be a good thing.
Why do you think Bill Gates and Warren Buffet believe the rich pay too little in tax proportionate to the poor?... They understand that they pay less percentage of tax than does the clerical help they employ.
This is a persistent myth. The reality is that the wealthy pay far higher taxes than the poor, and far higher than the middle class. If Gates and Buffet think they don't pay enough tax, they can donate money to the US Treasury. I haven't seen them do that. Just leave me out of the picture.
The other reality is, based on US Treasury figures, the Bush "tax cuts" have increased both the proportion and total amount of taxes paid by the top 20% of taxpayers. Just exactly how this becomes a "tax cut for the rich" in the minds of some just shows that there are wealthy, influential people, politicians, and a lot of unthinking voters who are "truth challenged". ...it is naive to believe that all people who have accepted charity are scamming or are not needing it.
I never said all were scamming or not needing it. I stand by my position that needing to take charity is proof of not having to learned how to make it in the world. Handing out money does not teach people how to make it on their own. Proper instruction does.
The last place I want regulating money is the church
I trust my church to help the poor a whole lot more than I trust my government to do the same thing. I have to admit, I do not give all my charity through the my church, more than half of it goes through other organizations, where I feel it will do some good.
If you feel so much better about the way the government handles charity, why don't you pay your taxes and then tithe to the government?
The day you can honestly tell me that you paid all your taxes (yes, on all your income) and then tithed, or even half-tithed, to the government, you are entitled to have an opinion.
I pay all my taxes, and then contribute to church and charity, where I think my money does a lot more good than through the government.
Carolyn
Can you honestly say that you have always reported all of your income?
Yep, I have. It may sound dumb to you, but I have.
You have probably always had a job, filing w2 wages. If you have owned a retail or cash business, i doubt you have, but for the sake of a message board discussion, I will let it go at that
Govt assistance to the poor has not caused increase in crime. Our crime is at a high because of drug and alcohol problems, a fragmented family system, single parent households and a host of other problems unrelated to government assistance.
Yes a job is always the best bet.... but there are some people who cannot legitamately hold a job for a host of reasons- disability, age, etc... there are also a number of working poor, single parent head of households with no child support, dead beat dads, or in the service sector. How much do you think somebody working at a hotel as a desk clerk earns? Add to that living with a couple kids etc... and some assistance may be needed.
I have a 82 year old blind aunt, owned her own business for 50 years. Husband left her at age 65, business was overextended, and now she is blind. Her assistance from the government is related to needs for the blind. Thank Goodness there is some government assistance... I have another who married a doctor, spent all of the money and lived past 80 which she didn’t think she would... money is in the house. Homes can’t buy food. While there is no government assistance had she married somebody who earned less she would be needing it.
I had a tenant once who expected to pay me via the multiple churches she had requested income from...
She was a scammer, I would have evicted her in a heartbeat (and yes I do own rental properties). Why didn’t you tell all of the churches the problem you were having? When I see someone being scammed, I feel a moral obligation to tell them about
Sure... I will just call all of the churches in this big city and let them know about her. I agree on the eviction, but don’t you think she went on to the next church? Oh and BTW, don’t know if you have ever been to Mexico City or not, but take a look at the churches filled with Gold and lots of it, while paupers stand on the street corner. Why help a poor person, when you can add gold to the house of God?
Personally , my religion doesn’t believe in decorating a place of worship in Gold, thats not what a place of worship is all about. But I am in the minority here...
the last thing I want it to tithe to a place who decorates its building in gold and lets people suffer outside its doors....
and yes I do believe in God... just keep organized religion out of the government. thankyou
And tell me why I should be given a tax break for buying rental property?
I don’t understand the tax code either, but I know that if taxes were reduced it would be a good thing.
Why should I be given a tax break because I am fortunate enough to own rental property with no griping, but the person who can’t afford a home purchase or basic living be scorned because he needs help? i get more assistance in tax exemptions than the person depending upon a budget expenditure.
This is a persistent myth. The reality is that the wealthy pay far higher taxes than the poor, and far higher than the middle class. If Gates and Buffet think they don’t pay enough tax, they can donate money to the US Treasury. I haven’t seen them do that. Just leave me out of the picture.
Gates and Buffet understand about percentage of income in tax, versus dollars paid in tax. Both happen to be huge contributors to charity, probably because of the tax break! Again, they are rewarded in tax exemptions
and they know it.
I stand by my position that needing to take charity is proof of not having to learned how to make it in the world. Handing out money does not teach people how to make it on their own. Proper instruction does.
I agree about eduction. But taking charity is a good thing sometimes. I have lived poor, and lived wealthy. I have owned many businesses. There are times when owning a business that unexpected obstacles can and do happen. It doesn’t mean somebody hasn’t learned how to make it in the world, it means they faced an unexpected obstacle. Who made you judge and jury? Sometimes some need a helping hand to get back on their feet
again.
If you feel so much better about the way the government handles charity, why don’t you pay your taxes and then tithe to the government?
I never said I feel good about the way the government handles charity. I think the way the government handles alot of things is a huge bureaucratic mess. I think the system would work much better if it was simpler. I argue with your point that receiving charity means you can’t make it in the world... there are many reasons why people resort to charity.... I think its needed, and I would rather have the government giving it then the church. How quickly we forget the PTL scandals in the 80’s. I don’t trust the church to give it. Too much gold sits in their buildings. I choose to believe as I believe. I want the freedom of my religion, even though that religion is the minority religion.
The day you can honestly tell me that you paid all your taxes (yes, on all your income) and then tithed, or even half-tithed, to the government, you are entitled to have an opinion.
The beauty of America is that everybody is entitled to an opinion. I think its called the first amendment.
Just don’t say things the IRS or Hillary does not like. You might get audited then laid out next to a cannon. That is the real first amendment.
You can deduct charitable contributions from your income. If you donate $100,000 and you are taxed at the maximum rate, 35%, your tax bill drops by $35,000.
You may think that donating $100,000 to save $35,000 in taxes is a great deal, but I don't think that's what motivates Gates or Buffet.
Except for one minor little detail, the AMT.
I don't follow.
The churches or faith based charities I’m familiar with vet those who say they need help - this is because their resources are finite and handing out help to everyone who says they need it means that the truly needy have to do without.
I have had pan handlers spit when I direct them to a nearby church ... faith based charities ask too many questions.
In many cases, if you have a lot of deductions, the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) kicks in, which reduces the tax relief you gain from charitable deductions.
You obviously unaware that the various Pastors, Deacons, Priests, Rabbis, etc...in most communities have interfaith meetings.
While they usually don't share lists of the people they help if you let a few know what's going on they will share the names/description of con artists.
Oh and BTW, don’t know if you have ever been to Mexico City or not, but take a look at the churches filled with Gold and lots of it, while paupers stand on the street corner. Why help a poor person, when you can add gold to the house of God? Personally , my religion doesn’t believe in decorating a place of worship in Gold, thats not what a place of worship is all about. But I am in the minority here... the last thing I want it to tithe to a place who decorates its building in gold and lets people suffer outside its doors....
I think you have a bigger issue then too many Churches to call...
I have had pan handlers spit when I direct them to a nearby church ... faith based charities ask too many questions.
My Church has a ministry called "Bread for Life." Once a week the Church gets food food donations from local retailers. Anyone who stops in is given food (enough to last the week).
The only time questions were asked (that I'm aware of) involved a young lady and her child being badly bruised. After some prying she told a member of the congregation they were being beaten by her boyfriend. She was gently convinced to go to the women's shelter (another local charity that is supported by donations and not Uncle Sugar).
I have spent a fair amount of time working with troubled youth -- late teens to say late 20s. Almost always homeless and jobless, or was that jobless and homeless.
I have advised every one of them to start going to one church on a regular basis. I know from experience that if any of them had shown up at my church every Sunday for a few months (with the only requirements being: not hung over, and a sincere attitude) they would have received a lot of help. And, if they had a real desire to help themselves, they would have had a job from one of a number of people in the congregation with a business.
So far, none of them have ever taken that piece of advice.
And, for PRC's benefit, the only gold I have ever seen in any of the churches I have attended regularly has been jewelry worn by the members. And, there hasn't been a whole lot of that.
You're right. Good catch.
While I didn’t want to keep her as a tenant, who am i to judge whether or not she needs the help. Obviously she did, or she wouldn’t have gone to multiple churches to get money. Who makes me the judge and jury about what her needs are? There is why the government should be regulating charity, not church. They do have systems in place
And no I do not think that the government has the best models
Each month she tried to pay me this way, through a different church... this was highly convoluted and impractical approach to helping this person.( and she didn’t even need the help- this was her scam- get it from the church)
Yet on post 36 you wrote -
While I didn’t want to keep her as a tenant, who am i to judge whether or not she needs the help. Obviously she did, or she wouldn’t have gone to multiple churches to get money. Who makes me the judge and jury about what her needs are?
Try to keep your story straight. If you want to be taken care of by the government try Zimbabwe or North Korea.
Seeing my post again, I think I need to clarify. I don't think faith based charities ask too many questions, but panhandlers etal think that or the charities won't give them cash which is what they're after - they don't want food, clothes or shelter (the shelters have too many rules - again, not my opinion but theirs)
There are reasons Charities have rules. If the person has genuine needs they will follow those rules.
Government programs also have rules. Denying this does not make them go away.
The best thing about private charity (faith based or otherwise) is that you can choose to support who you want to support. The government gives my money to "National Endowment for the Arts" or NEA. My money goes to some twit who places a crucifix in a jar of urine and calls it art. I would rather these "artists" try to live off what they call "art." Then perhaps someone might actually create something worthwhile. If they find a patron who likes looking at a crucifix in piss then the patron will pay them for it.
I grew up in a neighborhood with households consisting of three generations of welfare under one roof. That clouds my judgment.
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