Skip to comments.Sex-change law questions arise after man says he's pregnant
Posted on 03/27/2008 3:19:21 PM PDT by XR7
Thousands of Oregonians a year change their names. But the case of a Bend resident who says he is legally male and five months pregnant has highlighted the much smaller numbers who legally change their sex.
That option exists in Oregon, as in most states, for transsexuals who switch genders.
"Oregon's law is very typical," said Shannon Minter, legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights in San Francisco.
The crux of the decades-old law is one sentence. The same court with jurisdiction over legal name changes "may order a legal change of sex and enter a judgment indicating the change of sex of a person whose sex has been changed by surgical procedure."
The law does not define "surgical procedure" or specify what sort of anatomical change, if any, is required.
"There's no specific requirement in the law that there be a letter from a surgeon," said Lake James Perriguey, a Portland attorney who specializes in sex-discrimination cases. "A specific judge might want to see a letter, but that's it."
Perriguey said he takes up to 10 legal sex-change cases a year. He always includes a surgeon's letter as documentation of the sex change. He said he knows of cases in which a person received a legal change of sex on the basis of facial reconstruction.
The high-profile Bend case involves Thomas Beatie, who says he was born female but identifies as a male.
In a first-person account this month in The Advocate, a gay publication, Beatie said he legally changed his name and sex about 10 years ago in Hawaii. He underwent a double mastectomy and started testosterone injections, he said, but kept female reproductive organs.
A couple of years ago, after moving to Oregon, Beatie said that he and his wife, Nancy, decided to have a child. Because Nancy couldn't conceive, Beatie told The Advocate he stopped taking testosterone to allow his menstrual cycle to resume, and became pregnant through artificial insemination.
No one knows how many people legally change their sex, said Minter, the legal director for lesbian rights. "It's a very small population."
Perriguey said it would be highly unusual for a person to undergo a legal sex change to gain rights or financial benefits, such as health coverage through a spouse.
"There might be some who would try that," he said, "but when people choose to live as another gender, they're not doing it for collateral benefits."
Beatie declined to answer questions from The Oregonian this week, saying he had an exclusive contract with another media outlet. But The Advocate spoke repeatedly with Beatie before publication and insisted on talking with his obstetrician-gynecologist to verify the pregnancy and other medical details, deputy editor Rachel Dowd told The Oregonian.
"We had some questions," she said. "Pregnancy -- that was the big one."
Beatie is not the first legal male to become pregnant, she said. "But for some reason, this one has taken off."
Mutilating your body does not change your sex - no matter what the law, or some judge says.
Isn't your sex determined by your chromosomes?
If "his" blood or saliva were found at a crime scene, forensic testing would report that the sample belonged to a woman.
for those who couldn’t find any grounds on which to propose that the laws of the land should forbid such nonsense...
You betcha! That’s a crime all by itself. “My Mom’s the one with the beard smoking a cigar”
i’d bet you 100 pesos a judge would call him/her “sir”
That story really makes a person nostalgic for the days when you determined what your gender was, just from looking at your body.
And, if you still didn’t know, or had some doubts, then you were just plain crazy.
That is one strange tale.
Can you imagine how confused this kid’s going to be growing up. I hear the conflicts now- “no, my daddy had me,not my mommy” What is he/she supposed to call this person? Mom, Dad, some sort of combo like Dom or Mad?
There. Fixed it.
Why do the lamestream media identify a chromosomal woman as a he just because she had her boobs whacked off, took testosterone, grew a beard, and changed her name? Why do we play into their mentally deranged fantasies? And this person was so messed up, she couldn't even stick to the new gender she had picked, but decided to revert back to being a woman. And now with no boobs, a beard, and a man's name - she decided to become pregnant. This is sicker than even the usual transsexual. Some law needs to be written to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. At the very least, they shouldn't be legally called a male unless they give up their reproductive organs. Though I would prefer that we not feed into their derangements at all.
The freak is a woman - however demented and pathetic.
IMO, the lawyers and legal types should be the ones getting screwed - nobody respects them in the morning (or any other time) anyway.
And not just emotionally. Just imagine what all those testosterone shots and who knows what all else is doing to the developing little girl.
Yup, by the chromosomes. If at some future time a preternatually skilled surgeon of the sort inclined to perform the mutilations called ‘sex changes’ were to develop a technique for transplanting fully functional reproductive systems into people of the opposite sex, I could see a case for arguing otherwise.
As it is now, it’s just legal sophistry and mutilation aimed at abetting, rather than curing gender identity disorder (yup, it’s still in the DSM-VI, liberal agitation among psychiatrists notwithstanding). (Truth be told, it still would be even with my hypothetical surgical procedure, but that procedure would have a strong argument for actually living up to the name ‘sex change’.)
And for those of you wondering what “it” looks like:
It doesn’t make sense that someone who thinks they were born with the wrong equipment would want to go through something that is antithetical to being male. I guess her exscuse is that she wants a biological child, but she was apparently fine with not being related to the child of her “wife” if not for the fact that person cannot concieve, so why not adopt (although I doubt many Freepers would be on board with that lol). Furthermore, if carrying the child was just a means to an end, Beattie would do so as anonymously as possible so that she could resume life as the “normal” man she supposedly wants to be. Therefore I must conclude that she is an extremely confused attention seeker who just wants to defy societal conventions without regard to the effect on her child. Occasionally you run into these zero population growth liberals who think people who have their own kids are selfish. Wonder what they would say about this.
I don’t think there are enough of this type out there to justify a policy beyond alerting the carnival.
Physiological was more what I was thinking initially. Psychological comes later.
There once was a queer from Khartoum who took a lesbian up to his room. They argued all night over who had the right to do what, and with which, and to whom!
Since she only removed breast tissue but really made no other permanent measure to being the male she claimed to identify with, I don't see how the law could have recognized her as a male. You don't keep your ovaries and womb and claim you're now a man.
Thank you for not posting the picture. I really don't want to know.
oh my! Not what I expected.
You are right. This is not a man. She is a disturbed woman who took male hormones and had her breasts removed.
I had no idea! Here's another story from 2000; two lesbians decided to become gay "men." Apparently this "couple" didn't stay together for long. Wiki says the writer is controversial for advocating bestiality!
I’m thinking of it in terms of protecting the child. This woman with a beard, no breasts, and a man’s name is pregnant. What a tragedy for the child. If we could protect even one more child from having to grow up with such a “mother”, it is necessary to change the laws.
Thanks for making me a Bull.
It's right there in the article. S/he "identifies as a woman." For the TS crowd that's all that counts. You're a woman, or man, because you think of yourself as a woman, or man.
Sex/gender as a state of mind. Which ties in really oddly with their gay/lesbian fellow travelers, who insist that sexual orientation is inborn. So mental conditions, such as who we are attracted to, are inborn, while the physical condition of maleness/femaleness is nothing but a point of view.
You are right. This is not a man. She is a disturbed woman who took male hormones and had her breasts removed.
Ugh! How about screwing up the child’s life with just more complications. Sheesh!
My first thought is that poor kid. My second thought is that poor wife (the non-altered female that can’t conceive). My next thoughts are for the grandparents. Poor them and shame on that she/he for going public with this. It can’t do anyhing but hurt everyone else involved.
The laws of nature already do.
I think this story is a hoax.
Shall this person be listed as both father AND mother of the baby?
Phantom Limb is the sensation that an amputated or missing limb is still attached to the body and is moving appropriately with other body parts... Approximately 50 to 80% of amputees experience these phantom sensations in their amputated limb.
Phantom Pain Phantom pains can also occur in people who are born without limbs
Anorexia Nervosa: Anorexia nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes an eating disorder characterized by low body weight and body image distortion with an obsessive fear of gaining weight... Distorted body image... Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD)
Dender Identity Disorder a condition in which a person has been born one gender, usually on the basis of their sex at birth, but identifies as belonging to another gender, and feels significant discomfort or the inability to deal with this condition... The core symptom of gender identity disorders is gender dysphoria, literally being uncomfortable with one's assigned gender. This feeling is usually reported as "having always been there" since childhood, although in some cases, it appears in adolescence or adulthood.
It is just as possible to change your sex as it is to change your race.
The law is a ass.
Actually, the blood and saliva would indicate male because of the testosterone injections...
I agree, that can’t be safe for the baby...I don’t think she should be allowed to do this! It’s dangerous and creepy. If she wants to be a real man, why did she get pregnant?
“He” is not even a real transgender person, I heard this story, she is a lesbian who changed legal sex so she could get married to her wife, Nancy, and now this is a publicity stunt! It’s sad that freaks like this are going around giving bad names to real trans people.
I have a brother who’s transexual and you couldn’t tell because he lives like a normal person, not like this creep! Please don’t label all transgenders with this woman, they really are just trying to live normally and not bother anyone.
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