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Sex-change law questions arise after man says he's pregnant
The Oregonian ^ | 3/27/08 | DON COLBURN

Posted on 03/27/2008 3:19:21 PM PDT by XR7

Thousands of Oregonians a year change their names. But the case of a Bend resident who says he is legally male and five months pregnant has highlighted the much smaller numbers who legally change their sex.

That option exists in Oregon, as in most states, for transsexuals who switch genders.

"Oregon's law is very typical," said Shannon Minter, legal director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights in San Francisco.

The crux of the decades-old law is one sentence. The same court with jurisdiction over legal name changes "may order a legal change of sex and enter a judgment indicating the change of sex of a person whose sex has been changed by surgical procedure."

The law does not define "surgical procedure" or specify what sort of anatomical change, if any, is required.

"There's no specific requirement in the law that there be a letter from a surgeon," said Lake James Perriguey, a Portland attorney who specializes in sex-discrimination cases. "A specific judge might want to see a letter, but that's it."

Perriguey said he takes up to 10 legal sex-change cases a year. He always includes a surgeon's letter as documentation of the sex change. He said he knows of cases in which a person received a legal change of sex on the basis of facial reconstruction.

The high-profile Bend case involves Thomas Beatie, who says he was born female but identifies as a male.

In a first-person account this month in The Advocate, a gay publication, Beatie said he legally changed his name and sex about 10 years ago in Hawaii. He underwent a double mastectomy and started testosterone injections, he said, but kept female reproductive organs.

A couple of years ago, after moving to Oregon, Beatie said that he and his wife, Nancy, decided to have a child. Because Nancy couldn't conceive, Beatie told The Advocate he stopped taking testosterone to allow his menstrual cycle to resume, and became pregnant through artificial insemination.

No one knows how many people legally change their sex, said Minter, the legal director for lesbian rights. "It's a very small population."

Perriguey said it would be highly unusual for a person to undergo a legal sex change to gain rights or financial benefits, such as health coverage through a spouse.

"There might be some who would try that," he said, "but when people choose to live as another gender, they're not doing it for collateral benefits."

Beatie declined to answer questions from The Oregonian this week, saying he had an exclusive contract with another media outlet. But The Advocate spoke repeatedly with Beatie before publication and insisted on talking with his obstetrician-gynecologist to verify the pregnancy and other medical details, deputy editor Rachel Dowd told The Oregonian.

"We had some questions," she said. "Pregnancy -- that was the big one."

Beatie is not the first legal male to become pregnant, she said. "But for some reason, this one has taken off."


TOPICS: Extended News; US: Oregon
KEYWORDS: disorders; gayagenda; glbt; homosexualagenda; perversion; psychology; sex; sexchange; transexual; transgender
The same court with jurisdiction over legal name changes "may order a legal change of sex and enter a judgment indicating the change of sex of a person whose sex has been changed by surgical procedure."

Mutilating your body does not change your sex - no matter what the law, or some judge says.
Isn't your sex determined by your chromosomes?

1 posted on 03/27/2008 3:19:22 PM PDT by XR7
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To: fieldmarshaldj; wagglebee; neverdem; 2ndDivisionVet; ExTexasRedhead; Mister Politics; SandRat

WTF?????!!!!!!!!!


2 posted on 03/27/2008 3:20:45 PM PDT by Clintonfatigued (Those in the national Republican leadership do the work of three men- Moe, Larry, and Curly.)
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To: XR7
"He" is not male. "He" is a mutilated woman, with seriously disturbing psychological problems.

If "his" blood or saliva were found at a crime scene, forensic testing would report that the sample belonged to a woman.

3 posted on 03/27/2008 3:21:30 PM PDT by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: XR7

for those who couldn’t find any grounds on which to propose that the laws of the land should forbid such nonsense...


4 posted on 03/27/2008 3:21:43 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Free New York)
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To: XR7

Ewwwww....just ewwww.


5 posted on 03/27/2008 3:22:32 PM PDT by tsmith130
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To: Clintonfatigued
WTF?????!!!!!!!!!

This story makes me say

EWWWWWWWW!!!!
6 posted on 03/27/2008 3:23:23 PM PDT by Galactic Overlord-In-Chief (Groundchuck Hagel and Lindsey Grahamcracker are undesirable menu items in 2008. Make new choices!)
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To: XR7
Man, that's going to be one screwed up kid.
7 posted on 03/27/2008 3:27:27 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: AFreeBird

You betcha! That’s a crime all by itself. “My Mom’s the one with the beard smoking a cigar”


8 posted on 03/27/2008 3:30:11 PM PDT by Emmett McCarthy
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To: XR7

i’d bet you 100 pesos a judge would call him/her “sir”


9 posted on 03/27/2008 3:33:25 PM PDT by kingattax (99 % of liberals give the rest a bad name)
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: XR7

That story really makes a person nostalgic for the days when you determined what your gender was, just from looking at your body.

And, if you still didn’t know, or had some doubts, then you were just plain crazy.


11 posted on 03/27/2008 3:36:34 PM PDT by pfony1
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To: XR7
Image hosted by Photobucket.com if IT is pregnant... IT is NOT a MAN!!!
12 posted on 03/27/2008 3:39:43 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©®)
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To: XR7

That is one strange tale.


13 posted on 03/27/2008 3:42:20 PM PDT by Radix (How come they call people "Morons" when they do not know as much? Shouldn't they be called "Lessons?)
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To: Radix

Can you imagine how confused this kid’s going to be growing up. I hear the conflicts now- “no, my daddy had me,not my mommy” What is he/she supposed to call this person? Mom, Dad, some sort of combo like Dom or Mad?


14 posted on 03/27/2008 3:45:31 PM PDT by MissEdie (On the Sixth Day God created Spurrier)
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To: XR7
The high-profile Bend case involves Thomas Beatie, who says he she was born female but identifies as a male.

There. Fixed it.

Why do the lamestream media identify a chromosomal woman as a he just because she had her boobs whacked off, took testosterone, grew a beard, and changed her name? Why do we play into their mentally deranged fantasies? And this person was so messed up, she couldn't even stick to the new gender she had picked, but decided to revert back to being a woman. And now with no boobs, a beard, and a man's name - she decided to become pregnant. This is sicker than even the usual transsexual. Some law needs to be written to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. At the very least, they shouldn't be legally called a male unless they give up their reproductive organs. Though I would prefer that we not feed into their derangements at all.

15 posted on 03/27/2008 3:46:54 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Obama wanted Terri to die. His "I am my sister's keeper" speech unfortunately didn't pertain to her.)
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To: XR7

The freak is a woman - however demented and pathetic.

IMO, the lawyers and legal types should be the ones getting screwed - nobody respects them in the morning (or any other time) anyway.


16 posted on 03/27/2008 3:46:58 PM PDT by WorkingClassFilth (Don't cheer for Obama too hard - the krinton syndicate is moving back into the WH.)
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To: AFreeBird
Man, that's going to be one screwed up kid.

And not just emotionally. Just imagine what all those testosterone shots and who knows what all else is doing to the developing little girl.

17 posted on 03/27/2008 3:47:30 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn (The fence is "absolutely not the answer" - Gov. Rick Perry (R, TX))
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To: XR7

Yup, by the chromosomes. If at some future time a preternatually skilled surgeon of the sort inclined to perform the mutilations called ‘sex changes’ were to develop a technique for transplanting fully functional reproductive systems into people of the opposite sex, I could see a case for arguing otherwise.

As it is now, it’s just legal sophistry and mutilation aimed at abetting, rather than curing gender identity disorder (yup, it’s still in the DSM-VI, liberal agitation among psychiatrists notwithstanding). (Truth be told, it still would be even with my hypothetical surgical procedure, but that procedure would have a strong argument for actually living up to the name ‘sex change’.)


18 posted on 03/27/2008 3:49:17 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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To: XR7

And for those of you wondering what “it” looks like:

http://www.elsemanaldigital.com/articulos.asp?idarticulo=81192


19 posted on 03/27/2008 3:49:28 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn (The fence is "absolutely not the answer" - Gov. Rick Perry (R, TX))
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To: XR7

It doesn’t make sense that someone who thinks they were born with the wrong equipment would want to go through something that is antithetical to being male. I guess her exscuse is that she wants a biological child, but she was apparently fine with not being related to the child of her “wife” if not for the fact that person cannot concieve, so why not adopt (although I doubt many Freepers would be on board with that lol). Furthermore, if carrying the child was just a means to an end, Beattie would do so as anonymously as possible so that she could resume life as the “normal” man she supposedly wants to be. Therefore I must conclude that she is an extremely confused attention seeker who just wants to defy societal conventions without regard to the effect on her child. Occasionally you run into these zero population growth liberals who think people who have their own kids are selfish. Wonder what they would say about this.


20 posted on 03/27/2008 3:51:46 PM PDT by Callahan
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To: my_pointy_head_is_sharp

I don’t think there are enough of this type out there to justify a policy beyond alerting the carnival.


21 posted on 03/27/2008 3:55:12 PM PDT by Callahan
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To: mtbopfuyn

Physiological was more what I was thinking initially. Psychological comes later.


22 posted on 03/27/2008 3:56:03 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: XR7

There once was a queer from Khartoum who took a lesbian up to his room. They argued all night over who had the right to do what, and with which, and to whom!


23 posted on 03/27/2008 4:01:40 PM PDT by Natural Law
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To: All; pfony1
Unfortunately those days really never existed. It's a biological reality that some small number of children are born with indeterminate sex organs.

Since she only removed breast tissue but really made no other permanent measure to being the male she claimed to identify with, I don't see how the law could have recognized her as a male. You don't keep your ovaries and womb and claim you're now a man.

24 posted on 03/27/2008 4:04:12 PM PDT by newzjunkey (http://www.friendsofsarah.com/ - CA Abortion Notification Petition)
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To: mtbopfuyn
And for those of you wondering what “it” looks like:

Thank you for not posting the picture. I really don't want to know.

25 posted on 03/27/2008 4:07:11 PM PDT by usurper (Spelling or grammatical errors in this post can be attributed to the LA City School System)
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To: mtbopfuyn

oh my! Not what I expected.

26 posted on 03/27/2008 4:09:41 PM PDT by BBell
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To: XR7

You are right. This is not a man. She is a disturbed woman who took male hormones and had her breasts removed.


27 posted on 03/27/2008 4:13:20 PM PDT by ethical
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To: All; XR7
Beatie is not the first legal male to become pregnant

I had no idea! Here's another story from 2000; two lesbians decided to become gay "men." Apparently this "couple" didn't stay together for long. Wiki says the writer is controversial for advocating bestiality!

Family Values: Two Dads With a Difference—Neither of Us Was Born Male

28 posted on 03/27/2008 4:14:18 PM PDT by newzjunkey (http://www.friendsofsarah.com/ - CA Abortion Notification Petition)
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To: Callahan

I’m thinking of it in terms of protecting the child. This woman with a beard, no breasts, and a man’s name is pregnant. What a tragedy for the child. If we could protect even one more child from having to grow up with such a “mother”, it is necessary to change the laws.


29 posted on 03/27/2008 4:14:40 PM PDT by my_pointy_head_is_sharp (Obama wanted Terri to die. His "I am my sister's keeper" speech unfortunately didn't pertain to her.)
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To: XR7

Dear God,

Thanks for making me a Bull.

As always,

Your pal......


30 posted on 03/27/2008 4:18:41 PM PDT by Gator113 (Obama has "changed" me. I am now "a Typical White Person”.)
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To: newzjunkey
Since she only removed breast tissue but really made no other permanent measure to being the male she claimed to identify with, I don't see how the law could have recognized her as a male.

It's right there in the article. S/he "identifies as a woman." For the TS crowd that's all that counts. You're a woman, or man, because you think of yourself as a woman, or man.

Sex/gender as a state of mind. Which ties in really oddly with their gay/lesbian fellow travelers, who insist that sexual orientation is inborn. So mental conditions, such as who we are attracted to, are inborn, while the physical condition of maleness/femaleness is nothing but a point of view.

31 posted on 03/27/2008 4:19:50 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves. - A. Lincoln)
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To: XR7

You are right. This is not a man. She is a disturbed woman who took male hormones and had her breasts removed.


32 posted on 03/27/2008 4:20:18 PM PDT by ethical
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To: XR7

Ugh! How about screwing up the child’s life with just more complications. Sheesh!


33 posted on 03/27/2008 4:37:57 PM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: XR7

My first thought is that poor kid. My second thought is that poor wife (the non-altered female that can’t conceive). My next thoughts are for the grandparents. Poor them and shame on that she/he for going public with this. It can’t do anyhing but hurt everyone else involved.


34 posted on 03/27/2008 5:14:53 PM PDT by lkco (Go Dino!)
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To: the invisib1e hand

The laws of nature already do.


35 posted on 03/27/2008 5:41:40 PM PDT by darkangel82 (If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. (Say no to RINOs))
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To: XR7

I think this story is a hoax.


36 posted on 03/27/2008 6:38:25 PM PDT by Salman
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To: Clintonfatigued

Shall this person be listed as both father AND mother of the baby?


37 posted on 03/27/2008 6:45:36 PM PDT by tbw2 ("Sirat: Through the Fires of Hell" by Tamara Wilhite - on amazon.com)
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To: XR7
Body Integrity Identity Disorder is the overwhelming desire to amputate one or more healthy limbs or other parts of the body. Sometimes its sufferers take it upon themselves to amputate their own limbs... involves any wish to significantly alter body integrity. Some people suffer from the desire to become paralyzed, blind, deaf, use orthopaedic appliances such as leg-braces, etc... The condition is usually treated as a psychiatric disorder.

Phantom Limb is the sensation that an amputated or missing limb is still attached to the body and is moving appropriately with other body parts... Approximately 50 to 80% of amputees experience these phantom sensations in their amputated limb.

Phantom Pain Phantom pains can also occur in people who are born without limbs

Anorexia Nervosa: Anorexia nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes an eating disorder characterized by low body weight and body image distortion with an obsessive fear of gaining weight... Distorted body image... Obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD)

Dender Identity Disorder a condition in which a person has been born one gender, usually on the basis of their sex at birth, but identifies as belonging to another gender, and feels significant discomfort or the inability to deal with this condition... The core symptom of gender identity disorders is gender dysphoria, literally being uncomfortable with one's assigned gender. This feeling is usually reported as "having always been there" since childhood, although in some cases, it appears in adolescence or adulthood.

38 posted on 03/27/2008 9:06:15 PM PDT by sanchmo
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To: wagglebee

ping.


39 posted on 03/27/2008 9:52:57 PM PDT by XR7
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To: XR7

It is just as possible to change your sex as it is to change your race.

The law is a ass.


40 posted on 03/27/2008 10:52:07 PM PDT by weegee (Famous moments in history: March 18th, 2008 “I have a bridge (to sell you)...” - Barack H. Obama)
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To: NewJerseyJoe

Actually, the blood and saliva would indicate male because of the testosterone injections...


41 posted on 04/10/2011 12:40:50 PM PDT by jayden246
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To: mtbopfuyn

I agree, that can’t be safe for the baby...I don’t think she should be allowed to do this! It’s dangerous and creepy. If she wants to be a real man, why did she get pregnant?

“He” is not even a real transgender person, I heard this story, she is a lesbian who changed legal sex so she could get married to her wife, Nancy, and now this is a publicity stunt! It’s sad that freaks like this are going around giving bad names to real trans people.

I have a brother who’s transexual and you couldn’t tell because he lives like a normal person, not like this creep! Please don’t label all transgenders with this woman, they really are just trying to live normally and not bother anyone.


42 posted on 04/10/2011 12:46:25 PM PDT by jayden246
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