Posted on 03/27/2008 4:20:24 PM PDT by BGHater
You might not know it, but as of January it became illegal in California for companies to require workers to have devices implanted under their skin that would reveal their whereabouts at all times.
State Sen. Joe Simitian (D-Palo Alto) called his legislation a safeguard against "the ultimate invasion of privacy." Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed the bill into law in October.
But your privacy may not be completely safe. The same chip-based technology that California won't allow to be forcibly placed under people's skin will soon be ubiquitous in cellphones, which the telecom industry believes will be increasingly used as electronic wallets to make purchases.
Virtually all leading cellphone makers are already introducing this technology to their handsets. Payments by cellphone are expected to explode over the next few years as more stores are equipped to handle such transactions.
Here's how it'll work: You go to the Gap, select a pair of khakis and wave your phone in front a reader at the cash register. The purchase price is instantly deducted from your checking account like a debit card or applied to a credit card account. A record of the purchase is also entered into the Gap's database.
That's very convenient and will undeniably be a boon to shoppers, merchants and cellphone companies.
What the technology also means, though, is that all cellphone owners, which is nearly everyone, will be technologically "tagged." In theory, anyone -- or any company or government agency -- with a desire to do so would be able to identify you from as much as 300 feet away and track you as you go about your business.
Your cellphone would be constantly broadcasting your location, along with, possibly, your name, address and other potentially sensitive information.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
I predict cell phone theft will also explode over the next few years......reckon I won’t be upgrading to one of these
***Your cellphone would be constantly broadcasting your location, along with, possibly, your name, address and other potentially sensitive information.***
It does already. All new cell phones have GPS in them. Anybody with the need can access that info. There was a situation up here in Seattle where a woman was missing (she drove off the road into a ravine) and the police used her cell phone to find her.
Before I have a hissy-fit, I will need to know whether this crap will work even if your phone is off; or whether the user can disable it...
I guess this was because Arnold had a bad experience with this?
The Governator must have been thinking of some of his sci-fi movies when he made this proclamation.
Two things come to mind:
- Pre-paid (in cash) cell phones.
- Pagers as incoming important ‘need to call back’ numbers.
It won’t work if you take the battery out of it. I don’t know about if it’s turned off.
“There was a situation up here in Seattle where a woman was missing (she drove off the road into a ravine) and the police used her cell phone to find her.”
I guess you didn’t hear the “rest of the story”
She was virtually found dead because a female sheriff spent 3 days interrogating and suspecting the husband that reported her missing. This incompetent sheriff waited 3 days to get to tracking the cell phone data.
The weakest link will always be govt.
I take my cellphone with me when I go shopping, but wrapped in tinfoil with tight seams.
Definitely won’t work if you remove the battery, probably won’t work well if you can cover the antenna with something like foil. Other than that, there are places on the internet that can tell you how to change some soft/firmware, but it would be really hard to test if the thing is really odisabled.
Is it off when it is off? You might think it is, but the computer in there is more complicated by 100X than the mission computer in the Apollo moon program.
I applaud you for this:
“The weakest link will always be govt.”
It can actually be a nice tagline.
Any scheme the banks can use to get you away from credit cards is in store. The law offers consumers protection with CC purchases, not debit cards. Smart consumers can float their finances for as much as 50 days.
The banking industry loves debit instruments because there is no monetary float and they still make a hefty commission without any risk.
Considering the opinion the average hacker type has of tracking/ID technologies, I’m guessing there will be some sort of patch or update you can use to turn it off (probably questionably legal at best, but is anyone gonna know?) within a reasonably short time of anyone discovering it exists for any specific cell phone model.
The rest, I take out in cash and divide into envelopes for the months expenses:
gas, food, miscellaneous, car maintenance, coffee can, etc.
I spend less money as, when spending cash, one thinks about it harder than just pulling out a credit/debit card or check.
There is no 'trail' of what I buy or where I go or when.
In addition: Just this week, we found out that there was a MAJOR breach of security with the big super market chain here, HANAFORDS. Nearly half a million credit/debit acc't numbers were breached. It happened in Dec., but the public wasn't made aware of it until now.
So far, there have been 1,800 accounts, mostly Debit, used fraudulently.
My friends have had to cancel accounts and wait for new cards = and then they will have to close out and reenter with all the places they use their cards. My cards weren't in their systems so I don't have the hassle.
They are trying to get rid of cash because they cant' track us. We have to make a stand.
They already have us pin-pointed on the grid and anyone can find our house = and if we use GPS, the square foot we stand or sit on is available for tracking in real time, and to track past movements.
I grew up in a different era, indeed, I sometimes think a different world.
I'm a stubborn old bat and I will hang onto the freedoms I can for as long as I can/
the same tracking device is in all newer cars - for at least a decade
I will never use anything other than a pre-paid cell phone and will never purchase minutes for it with my credit card. The phone number I have is not attached to any name, there are no contracts, and I can discard the phone/number at any time without penalty. Only those I choose to give the number have the number. For others, good luck trying to call me or locate me...
I am not sure that taking the battery out of your phone would actually shut it off. I don’t totally understand how it works but typically an RFID chip doesn’t need a battery because it recieves its power from the scanner which it then replies back too. This is why the implanted chips work even though they don’t implant a battery with them.
Oh, I heard the rest, also. Just didn’t fit into the discussion :>)
Wrap the phone in aluminum foil and secure with one red and one blue rubber band.
You can always take the battery out.
If your cell phone is on, and you are getting a signal, you don’t need GPS to spot someone within a few feet of where they are.
I’ve seen it in action first hand. For a demo, they showed me how it worked by using my phone, which I had on me. I was only allowed to check on my own phone. They wouldn’t even do it with for my wifes phone without a warrant.
It pinpointed me on a “google map” type map within literally a few feet of where I was standing.
My phone has no GPS. It was based on cell tower triangulation of some sort. I do not believe it is real-time only. That is, it can tell them where you are, but not where you were. At least not precicely. They always know what tower you are using.
I do not believe it is real-time only = I DO BELIEVE it is real time only.
Correct, but all new cell phones do have GPS, also.
Won’t do them much good sitting on a store shelf unpurchased either.
I guess they could monitor it to be sure the store is still there.
Anyone here read “The Traveler” by John Twelve Hawks?
I just listened to it. Downloaded it from Audible.com!
Definitely worth a listen or a read....
They won’t report much of anything if they are turned off. If they are on, a GPS enabled phone won’t report your location from interior rooms of a building
Not my new one. Nor my wifes. Without revealing too much, I should know... ;)
Interesting, a company I have stock in supplies GPS to all the manufacturers. Unless... you are a spy. :>)
“You can use a used cell phone to call 911 without paying anything at all. Cell phones are regulated by the FCC. FCC requirements state that ALL cell phones, regardless of status of service (or even the lack of service) must be able to dial 911. Whether you have a telephone number or not, whether you have signed up for service or not, your cell phone can connect to 911.”
>>Really? So if you dial 911 on it, they won’t be able to find you?<<
Not with GPS. But if you read my post you will see that they DID find me.
And your comments about 911 don’t say anything about being able to track a phones location. They simply say that a phone must be able to call 911. They are two distinctly separate things.
Being a binary (black and white) thinker, it is more easy for me than most people to spot that distinction.
All phones that are on and within range of the network can be tracked almost as accurately as gps, without gps. GPS is only one way to do it.
>>Interesting, a company I have stock in supplies GPS to all the manufacturers. Unless... you are a spy.<<
But that doesn’t mean that all phones made by all manufacturers contain GPS.
Due to an FCC ruling last year that took effect this January, non-GPS enabled phones will be activated on any US cellular network. This is because of E-911. With enhanced 911, the dispatcher gets an approximate location of your cell phone when you dial 911 (using the GPS feature in your phone). This is a mandate by the FCC that 90% of the cell phones activated today must comply by Jan of 2006. Because of that, no US cell provider will activate a non-gps enabled phone. Currect subsribers will be temporarily grandfathered, and at least one company (Nextel) has applied for a waiver (because of the large number of commercial units they support like the M100, M370, R370 and R750). So if you are selling an older phone, you may want to point out it is for export only, and if you are looking to buy an older cell phone and you live in the US, make sure it's not analog (duh) and it 'is' a GPS enabled phone. Otherwise you bought yourself a neat paperweight. If you are a collector of older phones, looks like it's going to be a buyers market :)
By the way, your description of someone being able to find you without GPS, reminds me of a system called PLRS (Position Location ... System) used by the Army to locate things on the battlefield. It used somewhat the same means that GPS uses to locate you, except the radios were ground based, not in satellites.
Cell tower triangulation of a sort is how they do it.
I was shocked at the accuracy when it was demonstrated.
“They wouldn’t even do it with for my wifes phone without a warrant.”
Or if you’re inside law enforcement, every is a buddy.
>>Or if you’re inside law enforcement, every is a buddy.<<
I don’t exactly know what you mean by that. I will say my demo was law enforcement related.
I guess that makes me a member of a very small minority. I had a car phone and handset cell phone when I retired from the so-called working world ten years ago. I gave them up a couple of years after I "retired". No cell phone, no wristwatch, and no PDA is what I refer to as freedom.
...
Triangulation has been used for navigation since they’ve had transmitters. It can be used for sound and light also.
Yeah, I used to be into CB radios back in the 1970’s. we did a bit of that trying to locate a couple of base stations.
It’s a pretty old concept.
Gee. How many people will have to be raped, robbed, and maimed before the class action suits start?
ever heard of "Data Triangulation?"
Are you kidding me. This has been around a while. All fun and games until someone loses a family.
http://www.track-your-partner.com/
Yeah. Well, what’s different is that it’s going super-mainstream thanks to the big cellwhores.
Btw, please dont go to that site. That was not the one I was thinking of.
Too late.
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