Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Crusaders 'Left Genetic Legacy'
BBC ^ | 3-27-2008

Posted on 03/27/2008 6:29:52 PM PDT by blam

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-82 last
To: Mercat

Oh for heaven’s sake. hmmm


51 posted on 03/28/2008 10:57:15 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: Old Sarge

Only if it’s on a blue dress!


52 posted on 03/28/2008 11:15:20 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: blam

Mine is 100 proof.


53 posted on 03/28/2008 12:07:20 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts and guns made America great.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

How much did it cost.. if anything to get tested?
I’m curious about having it done myself.


54 posted on 03/28/2008 1:06:12 PM PDT by Trillian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Trillian
"How much did it cost.. if anything to get tested?"

At the site in post #5:

$107.50 for yDNA(male) and $107.50 for mtDNA(female). So, total = $215.00.

55 posted on 03/28/2008 1:09:58 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: allmendream
It was the Varangian Guard.

Harald Hardrada invaded England in 1066 and was killed at the battle of Stamford Bridge near York on Sept. 25, 1066. He was supported by Earl Tostig, the brother of King Harold II of England.

56 posted on 03/28/2008 1:59:28 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: Verginius Rufus
Yep! Sorry about the sp Vangarian -vs- Varangian, it is all Greek to me! ;)

When the three lords met before the battle King Harold II of England promised to give northumbria to Earl Tostig if he would recognize Harold as King of all England.

Earl Tostig asked “And what of my cousin King Harald Hardrade of Norway, who has fought so hard on my behalf?”

“Of him the King Harold II has said, he shall gain of England SIX FEET OF EARTH; or that much more that he is taller than other men.”

As you mentioned King Harald Hardrade died in the battle (arrow in the throat); and he got his six feet (or more) of English soil; but only for awhile before they exhumed his body and buried it again in Norway.

57 posted on 03/28/2008 2:04:19 PM PDT by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: allmendream
Would King Harald H. then be classed as a Norman type?
58 posted on 03/28/2008 3:13:22 PM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: wastedyears

“Did they trace you back to anybody of significance?”

Every last one of my ancestors was pretty significant to me :)

When you think of it, everyone traces there existence to heroic survivors.


59 posted on 03/28/2008 3:37:45 PM PDT by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: investigateworld
Well Normandy was founded by Norweigans.

According to Snorre Sturlason the Icelandic historian and other accounts a young man named Rolf the Granger was on trial for murder, but because his family knew the family of the Queen he was granted exile instead of death. He and some young rowdies settled in the north of France, a region that was thereafter called Normandy or ‘land of the Northmen’.

In the great tradition of Gallic capitulation the King of France gave him title to Normandy in exchange for recognizing him as King of all France.

The Normans spawned such a vibrant and warlike people that they soon ruled England, Sicily, southern Italy, and the Crusader kingdom of Antioch (one of the major metropolises of the ancient world) and twice came within one battle of ruling Byzantium (the major Empire of its day).

60 posted on 03/28/2008 3:46:20 PM PDT by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: blam

Cool.


61 posted on 03/28/2008 5:36:11 PM PDT by Ciexyz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: allmendream
I'm working backwards in my study of history. Presently I'm at ‘Red Army looting, Berlin, 1945’.
62 posted on 03/28/2008 5:52:33 PM PDT by investigateworld ( Abortion stops a beating heart.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: investigateworld
Backwards is an interesting way to go.

My own approach has been more haphazard, following authors, subjects, or ‘slices of history’.

Harold Lamb's books on Genghis Khan, Hannibal Barca, and the Crusades were amazing.

‘Slices of history’ books are like “The Ancient Engineers” by L. Sprague Decamp which is all about the history of engineering in the ancient world; or “A History of Pi” about famous mathematicians in history and their approximation of the ratio.

Snorre Sturlason is amazing. Amazingly unreadable, but Snorre did talk about the Viking discovery of America a few hundred years before Columbus sailed, as well as the history of the Norwegian kings, the founding of Normandy, and the colonization of Iceland.

63 posted on 03/28/2008 6:30:44 PM PDT by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 62 | View Replies]

To: blam

“Crusaders ‘Left Genetic Legacy’”

Although I only saw a couple of episodes of the “Cadfael” series on PBS,
IIRC, in one episode the ex-Crusader-turned-monk discovered a young
visitor from the Holy Land is likely his son.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108717/


64 posted on 03/28/2008 6:43:55 PM PDT by VOA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: allmendream
"Harold Lamb's books on Genghis Khan, Hannibal Barca, and the Crusades were amazing"

My screen name is from my last name, Lamb.

65 posted on 03/28/2008 6:48:17 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: blam
Is Harold Lamb a relative of yours? Are you a fan of his work? I highly recommend it. The Crusade books especially.
66 posted on 03/28/2008 7:21:17 PM PDT by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: allmendream
"Is Harold Lamb a relative of yours? Are you a fan of his work?"

No & No.

67 posted on 03/28/2008 7:29:53 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: blam
Read “Hannibal, one man against Rome.” and you will be!

His Crusade books were “Of Iron Men and Saints” and “The Flame of Islam” usually combined in one volume entitled “The Crusades”.

68 posted on 03/28/2008 7:42:29 PM PDT by allmendream ("A Lyger is pretty much my favorite animal."NapoleonD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: blam
Thanks. I know all that, lol....

Being the knowledgeable fellow you are, I thought you must.

Syke's book is sitting on my desk and is next on my reading list.

For the last couple of years I've been focusing on Indo-European languages, their relationships, and what they can tell us about migrations/relations. I'm just now getting into genetics. As Oppenheimer and others have pointed out, that can be more of a cultural shift rather than a population migration, e.g. the Frisian/English relationship (by the way, I find that it is actually easier to read old Frisian than Old English).

I am wondering, however, how much of the genetic patterns are affected by particular migrations and how much might be affected by disease resistance in particular groups. I'm sure over 50k years you can have several pandemics that can wipe out a population, or nearly so. Perhaps some of these groups have a slightly higher resistance than others and that can lead to some unevenness in the distributions.

Another interesting point to me that Oppenheimer makes is how hard it is to actually replace a population once it is established. To fundamentally change a population you would need a pandemic or genocide followed by another mass migration, not simply a Viking or Saxon incursion.

69 posted on 03/29/2008 8:23:56 AM PDT by seowulf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: seowulf

I have a question about Frisian language, or rather a sir name derivation. I have an ancestor, Jakob Miller, from Holland, who immigrated to PA in the early 1700s. Miller is a Dutch name?

His family passed on blood dyscrasia which now infects a fairly large percentage of the population. It is fairly mild and many people never even know that they have it, until they bleed out on an operating table during a routine procedure.


70 posted on 03/29/2008 8:30:24 AM PDT by Eva (Benedict Arnold was a war hero, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: seowulf
"Another interesting point to me that Oppenheimer makes is how hard it is to actually replace a population once it is established."

That is interesting and I've seen it expressed in other books.

I'm expecting Sykes book to disappoint you though.

71 posted on 03/29/2008 8:32:19 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Eva
"Miller is a Dutch name?"

I've read that a number of US German families named Mueller changed their name to Miller due to persecution during WW1 & 2.

72 posted on 03/29/2008 8:34:45 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: blam

The ME pop is a mixture of everybody on the planet since everybody on the planet has one time or another gone rampaging through there even before oil was discovered to have significant value.


73 posted on 03/29/2008 8:35:00 AM PDT by RightWhale (Clam down! avoid ataque de nervosa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blam

Yes, but Jakob Miller was the name in the early 1700s. It is the name that was on his immigration records, as well.


74 posted on 03/29/2008 8:37:45 AM PDT by Eva (Benedict Arnold was a war hero, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
"The ME pop is a mixture of everybody on the planet since everybody on the planet has one time or another gone rampaging through there even before oil was discovered to have significant value."

Even Neanderthals.

NEANDERTHAL MAN MAY HAVE TALKED

"Archeologists in Israel have unearthed a 60,000-year-old Neanderthal skeleton that indicates for the first time that the primitive hominids were anatomically able to talk."

75 posted on 03/29/2008 8:46:18 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: Eva
"Yes, but Jakob Miller was the name in the early 1700s. It is the name that was on his immigration records, as well."

Okay. Just a thought.

76 posted on 03/29/2008 8:47:07 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: tbw2

Have a friend from Lebanon. I asked him once whathe was doing with blue eyes and blond hair. He said, “don’t forget, the Crusaders were here.”


77 posted on 03/29/2008 2:13:16 PM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Eva
I have an ancestor, Jakob Miller, from Holland, who immigrated to PA in the early 1700s. Miller is a Dutch name?

The Netherlands is a mixture of Dutch, Flemings, and Frisian with Frisian being currently spoken in a small northwest portion of coastal Netherlands.

Miller does not sound like it would be an extraction of any of those but Jakob, of course, does.

It is possible that Mulder (Dutch: Miller) or Mueller (German: Miller) were changed at some time in the past.

The coastal Dutch were directly across the channel from England and were great traders. Sometimes the contact with the English caused them to Anglicize their names for business reasons.

It is also possible if they came to America on an English boat by way of England the name change could have happened there.

Another possibility is that Jakob was of English extraction whose family had immigrated to Holland sometime in the 17th century. That happened pretty frequently because of the religious wars in England at the time.

78 posted on 03/29/2008 2:23:07 PM PDT by seowulf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: seowulf

The interesting thing about this is that I found the Dutch link on the internet on a genealogy link from some town in the Netherlands. The only part of the site that was in English was the part pertaining to my ancestors. Now, I can no longer find the link.

I was trying to trace the history of this blood dyscrasia and found that I had the Miller family in my ancestry, several times. I had already come across a hand written note of my grandmother’s, saying that her paternal grandmother’s family was Dutch from Holland, but I thought that had to be wrong, until this Dutch family tree popped up.


79 posted on 03/29/2008 2:44:49 PM PDT by Eva (Benedict Arnold was a war hero, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: seowulf

Yes, they could have been English that emigrated to Holland because I believe that they were Calvinists. That might make sense. I guess they could have just moved there, the same way that they moved to Pennsylvania.


80 posted on 03/29/2008 2:54:09 PM PDT by Eva (Benedict Arnold was a war hero, too.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: blam

Don’t believe much of it but a fun map of man’s supposed migration genetically etc. http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/


81 posted on 03/30/2008 1:30:42 AM PDT by Bellflower (A Brand New Day Is Coming!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bellflower

Thanks. I’m usually the one that posts that map/journey.


82 posted on 03/30/2008 6:43:14 AM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-82 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson