A Euro-army is fantasy land. We need our American ally

The Guardian ^ | March 29 2008 | Martin Kettle

[2ndDivisionVet]

Like pensions and insurance, defence is one of those subjects to which too many people only pay attention when things go wrong. You might think, in the light of the past decade, that this would have changed. But you would be sadly mistaken.

Even today, even after Iraq, few mainstream MPs without an immediate personal or constituency interest in the subject turn up in the Commons for defence debates. Many politicians who are thoughtful about a range of domestic issues still pass by on the other side when the conversation gravitates to the military. In this they reflect the British public's preference for a quiet life. But it means that debates on defence remain monopolised by the committed - those who have always championed the armed services uncritically on the one hand, and those who have always viewed them with reflexive distaste on the other. As a result, such debates rarely give any sort of sensible lead - and we are stuck with the worst-of-both-worlds policy that has been on display in Basra this week.

Nato, which has been at the heart of British defence policy for 59 years, is about to hold an extraordinarily difficult summit in Bucharest. Predictably, this fact has gone largely unnoticed except within these mutually dependent charmed circles. Nevertheless next week's meeting presents a succession of formidably divisive and important issues for the 26 Nato member states to grapple with. Thoughtful public opinion ought to grapple with them more seriously, too. Perhaps we would not have got to this difficult place if there had been more such grappling in the past - as well as better political leadership.

[2ndDivisionVet]

If Europe's GDP exceeds ours, shouldn't their defense spending, as well? It's not 1948 anymore, it's 2008.

[Clioman]

The gravest threat that the euros face lurks in the nearest mosque. NATO is helpless in the face of the kind of cowardice that smiles and calls itsself ‘tolerance.’

[kellynla]

“If Europe's GDP exceeds ours, shouldn't their defense spending, as well? It's not 1948 anymore, it's 2008.”

Thank you!

And those 75K troops stationed in Germany would be of better use in Iraq & Afghanistan.

[kabar]

We spend more on defense than the rest of NATO put together. In fact, we almost spend more than the rest of the world put together. Europe would like to continue to be on Security Welfare. The problem is that the US will soon be in the position of Europe, i.e., trying to decide between guns or butter.

Our entitlement systems are going belly up. If nothing is done, by 2060, the combination of Social Security and Medicare will account for more than 71 percent of the federal budget. And that doesn't include the current 17 cents of every federal dollar being spent on servicing the national debt. Defense is considered a "discretionary" expense.

[oneolcop]

It would seem so, but the continental western Europeans are militarily fat, lazy and complacent. When the military conquest of the parts of Europe not taken over by Moslem immigration takes place they will rue the day they accepted American help and forgot that it is their responsibility to defend themselves. (Is that a run-on sentence?)

[DJ Elliott]

Which is why Germany is being reduced to two US Brigades and why German stationed US Brigades have been rotating to Iraq just like the rest (EG 2SCR).

[Sawdring]

is easy to mock both Nato's and the EU's defence records. Both are in different ways cold war structures that have struggled to adjust to post-cold war realities. They duplicate and they overlap, providing lots of jobs for people who lead comfortable lives attending endless planning sessions at considerable cost but to quite modest effect

How does one apply for a job at NATO?

[NordP]

If Europe's GDP exceeds ours, shouldn't their defense spending, as well? It's not 1948 anymore, it's 2008.

WELL SAID!

You had an excellent point...it just needed a little more pizazz ;-)

[ontap]

I think the days of us defending a Europe unwilling to defend it self should be ended. Just reading some of the responses at the end of this article tells me these bunch of mooching lemmings should be left to their own self imposed fate. Fifty years of sacrificing our wealth and lives of our sons have bought nothing but scorn and jealously. F%^k’em!!!!

[Non-Sequitur]

And those 75K troops stationed in Germany would be of better use in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Those 75,000 troops have been in Iraq and Afganistan. Many of them several times.

[Non-Sequitur]

Hasn’t NATO outlived it’s usefulness? What purpose does it serve except to allow the European countries to cut their own defense spending and shift responsibility for their protection to us? The U.S. could easily withdraw from NATO without weakening our defense position in the slightest.

[alarm rider]

Agreed. Well said.

[LZ_Bayonet]

"It would seem so, but the continental western Europeans are militarily fat, lazy and complacent. When the military conquest of the parts of Europe not taken over by Moslem immigration takes place they will rue the day they accepted American help and forgot that it is their responsibility to defend themselves."

The Muslim situation in Europe brings to mind the early days of Hitler, in the sense that there must be some Europeans who are asking themselves if now would be a good time to take advantage of the high Euro and purchase that "vacation" place in the US; if only for their children (assuming they buck the trend and have children).

Any Freeper real estate agents notice activity from Europe?

[oneolcop]

Any Freeper real estate agents notice activity from Europe?

I do believe you're onto something there... A lot of them go to Canada.

[oneolcop]

Actually, the main reason we still have military in Europe is so that we have bases closer to the real trouble spots. Forward bases make it faster and less expensive to project power to those regions of the world where it is needed.

I for one, would like them to be brought home and "forward based" on the Mexican border.

[Melchior]

The number of European socialists qua Marxists who have bought property in the San Francisco Bay Area would astound you.

[ontap]

Excellent!

[oneolcop]

No, it wouldn't. I've written off California to the extent possible. I still have a daughter and two grandkids there and I still collect a pension from there, but the state and especially SF are lost.

Sad- my wife was born and later served in the Army on the Presidio of San Francisco. To see what has happened there is so very sad.

[DJ Elliott]

The problem is we would be throwing the baby out with teh dirty water.
NATO is not just France and Germany. Several countries in NATO that are pulling their weight would also be abandoned... (EG Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Denmark, Poland,...)

[ontap]

No! The problem is we need to remove the baby from the basin and dispose of the filthy water and refill the basin with clean water. i.e. dump the moochers and let them fend for themselves and retain the true allies.