Posted on 03/29/2008 6:06:20 PM PDT by Ravnagora
Imagine what it must be like now for Serbian-Americans and American Serbs. I can and have often in the past 10 years. Now, with the issue forced for real on American soil, the Serbian issue takes on even deeper meaning.
I love this country, America. I love it more now, and appreciate it more now, than ever before. I've grown less and less tolerant of Anti-Americanism over the years, despite my education and some of those around me teaching and preaching at me that America is flawed and that she does not deserve the blind faith and allegiance she has been afforded for so long by so many of her citizens. The last ten years have put American Serbdom in an especially difficult dilemma, for when America turned against her one loyal and true ally in the Balkans, loyalties and faith became tested and challenged.
Two years ago, American led NATO began bombing the Serbs, after years of sanctions and demonization and lies and punishments leveled against the Serbian people. Years after the undercutting and undermining of sincere Serbian efforts to do the right thing by their people and their country, and in many cases, by their faith and by God. Suddenly, being an American Serb or Serbian American posed a very real problem. It was as if suddenly you had to take sides, and no matter which side you took there was the guilt of being a betrayer. The NATO war against the Serbs in the former Yugoslavia was a war against people like me, too. And now there is the irony of America's war not against the Serbs, but those very same enemies the Serbs have been struggling against for years.
Two years ago, I sat at a desk in the office where I worked and listened to a co-worker, a young man who'd been in the American military, tell his friend on the phone that what America needed to do was "carpet bomb" them, the Serbs...to level Belgrade....to finish the job. And I listened to him remark about Madeleine Albright and how great she was, because she knew how to get the job done. I couldn't take it. I told him that I'd love to see him get sent over there, to Muslim territory in Yugoslavia and see how he'd like it...that these Muslims he was supporting would be more than happy to lay him out on the grill and have a picnic....
My boss at the time, a young man who didn't much care about Bosnia or Kosovo or Serbs or much of anything else over there, recognized that there was a problem in his office and called his lawyer. After the talk with the lawyer, he called a meeting of the entire staff of the office and informed us that this issue was not to be discussed in his office ever again, not on company time or on company property. My fellow employees, some of whom had suddenly come to see me as a "foreigner" who was impinging on their "American civil rights", listened as he dictated the new rules. One spoke up, and while looking directly at me, reminded my boss that this was America and couldn't people say what they wanted? My boss answered with: "This may be America, but this right here is my office and those rights don't apply."
I would not have to listen to fellow employees talk about what America should do to the Serbs to "finish the job" anymore after that. But it was in the air. And the next day, a few of the guys, to make their own statement in their own way, brought little American flag lapel pins and placed them on the desks of everyone in the office, except for me. I was no longer an "American" in their eyes.
That same Spring of 1999, the Spring of the bombing, a Serb who was looking to get citizenship in this country, America, by hook or by crook and using whatever means he could manipulate to get that privilege, challenged me when I protested his vitrol against the Americans. Here he was, a Serb who had manipulated his way into America and who had manipulated his way into staying here after coming within a hairsbreadth of being deported back to the homeland he had escaped from, now suddenly laying down the line about loyalty. He yelled, "Are you an American or a Serb!" It was then that it was brought home to me. To hear an American beating down the Serbs made me a Serb. To hear a Serb beating down the Americans made me an American.
Now, two years later, though I knew what the Serbian reaction would inevitably be upon the tragic events of September 11, 2001, when the heart of America learned firsthand about what was in the heart of the Muslim terrorists, I also knew that I would not accept any Serbian reaction that celebrated that day. I did not, nor will I ever want, to hear any Serb saying that America got what was coming to her and that she deserved it on account of what had been done to the Serbs. That would hurt too much and would make me too angry. Angry enough to forget all about that fact that it was completely understandable given what had been done to the Serbs all these years, and so unrighteously so. I guess then that this makes me an American.
What I am thinking now is that somehow I hope the Americans realize that the war they are now waging is the very same war the Serbs have been waging. The Serbs recognized who the bad guys were on their own soil and they tried to do something about it. Unfortunately, unlike the Americans, they did not have so much of the world on their side and all the resources and means at their disposal to get the job done. Instead, not only did the Serbs have to struggle against the enemy and fight them under the harshest of circumstances, those who should have been their allies in that struggle turned against them instead and punished them for their efforts.
I hope this will be the wake up call. I hope that America concedes that the Muslim terrorists they have been aiding and abetting in the former Yugoslavia are the same Muslim terrorists who have been aided and abetted by the Osama bin Ladens of the world, and for whom bin Laden is not the villain, but the hero. I hope the Americans realize just how badly they screwed up in taking sides against the Serbs. I hope they realize that the Serbs have been fighting the very same war against the very same enemy that America now finds itself facing down.
I can almost see it now. They are recognizing that Osama bin Laden got a whole lot of help from the Bosnian Muslims and the Albanians, and that they got a whole lot of help from him in their war against the Serbs. In light of all this, it isn't so farfetched to imagine that come one day soon, it will be determined that there "just isn't enough evidence" against Mr. Milosevic or any of the other Serbian fighters who now await trial for "crimes against humanity," and that these "Serbian war criminals" will be released. I don't know. Maybe it is farfetched, because then the Americans would have to face the world with the admission that they made a huge error in judgment. That they took the wrong side.
I am an American. I'm getting worse in my patriotism. I tolerate Anti-Americanism less and less. I can only hope that doesn't make me less of a Serb. And though it is wrong and ignorant of me, I am glad that now the world is taking a whole new look at who the "bad guy" is, and that it is the Muslims who are having to concern themselves with demonization and prejudice and the consequences of being a certain nationality or religious faith, and with being the target of world condemnation. I can only hope that this attitude does not make me less of an American or a Christian.
Right or wrong, good or bad, there is one thing I know to be true, whether as an American or as a Serb. The Serbs knew who the bad guy was.
this makes me spiritualy ill, i don’t know what to say.
This one does.
Ping.
Thanks.
I can’t begin to adequately describe how horrendous it is to watch the U.S. simultaneously be fighting “The War on Terror” and be stabbing the Serbs in the back.
It’s NOT NORMAL.
You’re welcome.
Are you trying to say that there are actually SERBS living in Sarajevo?
No, No, No. You are mistaken. Only “Bosnian muslim victims of Serb Aggressors” live in Sarajevo.
Shame on all the liars.
There fixed it. Sorry for what we did to the Serbs. I'd bet we don't do it again.
“Stronger” is the better word. You’re right.
Can you imagine what it’s like for American Serbs right now?
Very interesting article.
America continues to make stupid treacherous blunders regarding Serbia and Kosovo. I don’t see an end to it.
Remember McCain called for ground troops during that war, instead of demanding that Clinton stop lying about genocide and reveal the truth. It was how McCain launched his first bid for the presidency. His ambition overruled America’s best interest then.
Hi Elk,
The fact that this whole Kosovo thing doesn’t make sense to you means you are smarter than all the politicians put together.
The fact that it does make sense to them scares the hell out of me.
The Democrats always seem to side with Evil. The Kosovo war and the entire war on terror shows that if they are voting their consience (and not posing) they will side with the islamist jihadists. The Clintoons and UN decided to side with the terrorists in Kosovo. No surprises here, move along, move along now.
I can’t begin to adequately describe how horrendous it is to watch the U.S. simultaneously be fighting “The War on Terror” and be stabbing the Serbs in the back.
It’s NOT NORMAL.
Yes, it is -- for the leftist/jihadist alliance. Remember, it was the American Socialist Party aka Democraps whose president bombed the Serbs. The libs were just protecting their natural allies -- the jihadist. Think this is hyperbole? Look at Obama, a man who spent 20 years going to a BLT/Marxist church whose pastor approvingly included Hamas propaganda in the church's newsletter.
Now, could GW have turned the table? Not without ticking off the rest of leftist dominated Europe even more than he has done so with the larger WoT and wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, I for one think he should have done so anyway, consequences w/r/t out European "allies" be d@mned.
But do you think those Serbian snipers cared who they got in their cross hairs.
....I hope the Americans realize that the war they are now waging is the very same war the Serbs have been waging...This one does....
Good!!! Then I hope,that as a (ELCA) Lutheran pastor, you are praying for the Serbs in the homeland, and especially those in Kosovo and Metohija, ALOUD, in the liturgy, regularly.
The next to the last time I served as Assisting Minister in my ELCA congregation (in January), I did just that, and explicitly prayed for “Christians in the Serbian province of Kosovo and Metohija”. When the time for announcements came, the pastor welcomed a Dutch woman who was visting the congregation, and apologized to her for my prayer. The next week, I was told that the Mutual Ministry Committee had ruled, “no more political prayers”, and the pastor told me that a Christian could support “Kosovo independence”. (Ironically, the Serbian swimming champion Milorad Cavic was later censored for his “Kosovo je Srbija” T-shirt in, of all places, the Netherlands!!!!) I had been praying aloud for Serbian Orthodox Christians in the liturgy for years, and even organized humanitarian aid and cultural exchange programs between my Lutheran and my Serbian Orthodox congregations. But, all of a sudden, with “Kosovo independence” imminent, and more Euros visiting our congregation, my prayers became “too political”.
After that incident, I disappeared from my ELCA congregation, until a midweek Lenten service. Then I announced that I had become a catechumen in the Orthodox Church. (The timing of that event was coincidental, since my conversion to Orthodoxy had been in process since the fall of 2007. Lord willing, I will be chrismated before Pascha.)
The Serbophobia and subservience to islam in the ELCA, and the general tolerance of persecution of Christians (even Lutherans) worldwide, is shameful, and a grave sin. It goes together with the pervasive miasma of spiritual sloth in the ELCA. If and when—Lord willing—the ELCA laity WAKE UP, and realize what the ELCA mis-leaders and many parish pastors have been doing to their church body over the years, we will see a great upheaval, a mass exodus, or both.
Bosnian Muslims in Utica, NY Converting a Methodist Church into a Mosque
I was at a protest against Kosovo independence last week. Only one local news channel covered the story, although all of them were notified. The one news channel who covered it described us on-air as "ethnic Serbs protesting Kosovo independence", when more than half of us were born in the USA -- we're AMERICANS, damn it! Several of the guys that I know of there were decorated US veterans! And the very next on-air line was "You may remember, Serbs burned down the US embassy last month in Belgrade". In short, what they had just done, was turn our entire American effort at dissent against US policy on this issue into another call for condemnation of the Serbs.
I am really beginning to wonder what country I am living in, anymore.
Bokababe, I am sorry to hear this, but not at all surprised, unfortunately.
This pattern began at the beginning of the 1990s.
The media continues to use the same “Talking Points” with regards to Serbs. I think when they write their soundbites, they type in “Serbs” and this is what they can choose from:
Aggressors
Nationalist
Ethnic-Cleansing
Genocide [As perpetrators, never as victims]
Serbs have been described by the media in their “news reports” in ways that no Jews or African-Americans or Moslems in this country would EVER tolerate.
Now, imagine this:
If it should come to war, and America is in war with Serbia, God forbid, just how exactly will that impact American Serbs?
Dear Honorary Serb,
You will enjoy Orthodoxy. It actually feels like a true Christian religion.
Can you clarify for us who don’t know what ELCA stands for?
Ping the list
I too am an American and it still nauseates me to remember how we aided and abetted the muslims in Kosovo by invading Serbia and bombing innocent Christians there. It was part of the twisted and perverted world of clinton and his cleaning lady halfbright. We did wrong to the Serbs and though I never agreed to it I share the shame for my nations actions. In the end I think most Americans will see through the evil of islam and find remorse for that sad time in our history and the suffering inflicted on Serbia.
Thanks for your comments. I’ve lost hope in the “mainstream” media, but not in Americans. And with the internet, there is a tremendous outlet out there for people who understand what was happening and just how unjust it all was.
I have found many good writers (real journalists who actually do their job) and intelligent thinkers who have told the real story, on the internet. All it takes is a bit of research. There is a lot of garbage out there - a lot of the same old lies - but the truth is out there, too. The tricky part for someone who is trying to learn is what to believe and what not to believe.
ELCA is the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.
I have been connected with a Serbian Orthodox community for nine years, and have worshipped in Orthodox churches (Serbian and OCA) for most of that time. So I know much of what I will be getting into in becoming Orthodox.
Once upon a time, Lutheranism felt like a true Christian church. But our evangelical catholic strain of Lutheranism (which was arguably the closest thing to Orthodoxy) has become an endangered species, and is nearly extinct in our Blue State area. The new ELCA feminist liturgy and hymnal was the last straw for me, and I also believe that the real purpse of the Lutheran Reformation was to bring the West back to Orthodoxy. So, since there is no mass movement of Lutherans to Orthodoxy as there shoud be, I need to convert on my own.
Thanks very much.
Last week there was an excellent documentary, on PBS I think, about Martin Luther and all the changes he made to the existing Catholic church - but it went even further than that - changes happened in society as well, including in the financial sector as a result.
Orthodoxy is a “gentle” religion. NEVER has there been an instance where the Orthodox have forcibly converted others to Orthodoxy.
A month ago, when the organized protests started, John Bosnitch called Sylvester Sijan, father of the late Captain Lance Sijan
Sylvester Sijan said to John that was old (89) and had never been a political activist, but that he opposed the bombing of innocent Serbs by America & NATO in 1999 and it still haunts him to this very day.
And the Saudi’s have alot of money to follow.
Captain Lance Sijan was a true hero, a Serb.
Historian Bill Dorich has written something quite enlightening:
“A building at the U.S. Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs is named for Lance Sijan, a Serb, for his bravery in Vietnam. He died in his prison cell shared with Senator John McCain.”
So many things could be said at this point and I shall refrain from saying any of them.
Who just handed part of Serbia to the muslims? It wasn’t Clinton.
When my sister called the other day, she asked “Why would someone stop talking to me because (my BIL’s name) is Serbian?” They are living in California, and someone she had been talking to walked away when she said her last name.
My brother in law says it is fairly common to have the reaction.
Wow! That's awful!
We were a little "insulated" here in Sacramento for a long time. From about 2000 until last year, usually if you said your were "Serbian" or your last name ended in "ich", they first thing people would ask was whether or not we "knew Vlade Divac or Peja Stoyakovic, personally"! The Sacramento Kings basketball were the biggest thing in town back then.
But back in 1999, Serbs got a double-whammy here -- first the NATO Bombing of Yugoslavia, then a few months later three synagogues were burned by some people saying that they were "Serbs" doing it as "revenge for Serbia being bombed". I wasn't here at the time, but my family was and it was horrible -- the FBI was questioning everyone associated with the Serbian Orthodox Church here, the church and the priest were getting hate mail and threats, Serb friends told me that people quit talking to them too. They said that Serbs knew that it wasn't one of the Serb community, because Serbs & Jews have always gotten along. Whatever happened, it would be impossible to imagine any Serb burning a synagogue. When the police finally caught the guys who had set the synagogue fires, they had nothing to do with anything "Serbian" -- they were WASP Americans who just left that Serb info behind to throw off police as to who they were -- White Supremacists. No one ever said , "Oops, sorry we accused you". The news never even attempted to clear Serbs name here after all of the headline accusations. These Supremacists knew a good scapegoat when they saw one!
Some of my Serbian friends report similar bad experiences:
“Oh, your name is ‘Militza’. That’s a pretty name. What kind of name is it?”
“It’s Serbian.”
“Oh.” (Walks away.)
Anyone who is old enough to remember the media before 1990 or so should be very aware that it has degenerated in every way since then, and that the degeneration is accelerating. (Think “reality” shows, endless clones of “Law and Order”. and Britney/Paris/Lindsay. Then consider how newspapers have less and less in them but cost more and more, and how NPR “News” is mostly features.) Even with that very limited degeee of awareness, if the media says that Serbs are nonsters, there is no reason whatsoever to believe it!!!!
McLame is no hero.
Yep!
Good, then Bin Laden has a place for you in Al Qaeda.
You should have asked the local news channel if they know where Kosovo is located.
I would bet that they would have responded to you with something like the following:
"Yeah sure Kosovo is located in Bosnia, that's where Milosivic carried out his genocide in 1999 at Srebrenica."
Trust me...this is how silly it gets.;-)
I hear a village is missing it’s idiot, you may want to return before Bush misses you.
I'm sure that most of them thought the portrayal of the Persians in the film "300" was accurate.
And, I might add, "Hollywood Hoplite" also provides excellent guidance as well. :-)
Bump for later reading and comment.
I honestly think McCain believes all the nonsense he spouts. He is a NWO guy. I honestly don’t know what to do about it. The folks I talk to are clueless about virtually all the issues facing us. And these are not low level folks. They should know better. When confronted with facts about various situations we face, they are incredulous, and sometimes act as if they are being lied too. FWIW, the house of cards we are building will not last long and all will be affected. Some sooner than others.
Yes I can. What a sorry mess our nation is in. Too many have fallen for the lefts siren song. There will be h@ll to pay in the not too distant future.
That’s great! You are a brave and honorable person! And welcome to the Holy Orthodox Church.
You will love Orthodoxy. I converted in college, and have never looked back.
One thing that’s amazing is that all Orthodox churches here in America pray for the safety of America’s armed forces. I’ve seen it in OCA, Greek, and Russian. I had never been to a Serbian Orthodox church until I got to my new base in January of this year. I was kind of curious if they would as well, given the fact that America has basically stabbed the Serbs in the back. Sure enough, they did.
Then, we recognized Kosovo’s independance a couple months ago, and stabbed the Serbs in the back AGAIN. I, as a member of the military, was actually ashamed and didn’t want to go to Liturgy. But I drug myself to church to take communion, and sure enough the father prayed humbly once again for the safety of me and my brothers. It was a “sermon on the mount” kind of moment, realizing just how special both God and the Orthodox church are.
It’s amazing, when I think about it. When I was in West Texas, I went to a college party and was accused of being a baby killer by the very people that I protect on a day to day basis. And yet, these good Serbian people still pray for me every Sunday despite the fact that my country betrays them to our common enemy.
Welcome to the church, brother. You will not regret it!
Thank you all very much for your brotherly encouragement!!!!
I pray for BOTH our American President and armed forces, and for the Christ-loving Serbian people, at every liturgy.
I don't know what to do about it, besides homeschool, that is.
The more I read about Kosovo (and yeah, that Saudi connection/oil conduits, etc.,), the more I have to apologize for my own cluelessness all these years. The gut feeling something was wrong was there, but the facts certainly give some substance to that feeling.
The Serbs have been fighting islamic terror for centuries. Do you not realize that it's a world-wide-war against islamic terror on many fronts. Such as in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, Chechnya, the Philipines, and yes, even the much maligned Serbia and Kosovo, have right to self-defense.
Chrisitan Serbs were the early warning system to what lay in store for the West in the war against Islamic Terror. But the West chose to align itself with Islamic Terror groups like the KLA and bomb the Serbs in what amounted to a combined 5th Crusade against Orthodox Christians. The West was sent a thank you card postmarked 9/11,sent via air mail delivery, ironically from followers of the religion of "peace" it sought appease.
( click on the link in post 49)
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