Posted on 03/31/2008 7:56:56 AM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
If the British and French can design and build spectacular bridges at a modest or at least reasonable cost, why can’t we? Or maybe we can, but we haven’t tried it lately, at least not in Oregon.
The question comes up because Peter DeFazio, our man in Washington, is chairman of the highways and transit subcommittee in the U.S. House. His committee will write the next highway bill, probably by the end of 2009. And when DeFazio led his colleagues on a fact-finding trip to Europe, he saw the viaduct at Millau.
It’s the most spectacular bridge he has ever seen. At about 2.5 kilometers long, it spans the Tarn valley in the Central Massif, carrying the main road from Paris to the south of France and Barcelona, the A75.
In the summer, when most of the people in Paris sensibly take about a month off, the road to the south used to have terrible traffic jams near the small town of Millau, where some roads come together.
To solve the congestion, The road authorities decided to bridge the valley, from one plateau to the other. They got a celebrated British architect to design the thing. What he designed looks like something out of a dream, hugely tall but so slender as to appear ephemeral.
The tallest of the seven steel and concrete pillars reaches nearly 1,000 feet into the clouds from the valley below. The four-lane deck — two lanes each way — hangs from a series of cable stays, making it the largest cable-stayed bridge in Europe.
More important from the standpoint of highway planners, DeFazio says the bridge was built in three years at a cost of about $700 million.
A report available online says the cost was 400 million euros, which at the time of construction (December 2001 through December 2004) would have been even less than the figure DeFazio was given.
The cost was modest when you consider what we are paying for routine freeway bridges. And it was cheap compared to the astronomical estimate —$4.2 billion — for a new bridge across the Columbia River in Portland.
The viaduct is designed to reassure drivers, who are charged a toll of about $5.60 for a trip across. It is slightly curved to keep drivers from feeling they are floating off into the sky.
A beautiful structure, useful and quickly built at a reasonable cost — let’s see if the highway subcommittee chairman can encourage such a thing here.
If we just imitating their beautiful bridges, I think that’s fine. Here’s a picture of the bridge mentioned: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/179/466149693_4cc446f8d8_o.jpg
Nice! And to think, we can build that in only six years at only twice the cost!
My recommendation:
Build the bridge with 4 to 6 lanes going each way. Charge a $1 each way or $2 toll to go into the City. Restrict the trucking traffic to the right two lanes.
Create two HOV lanes each way that allow the following at no charge:
buses
emergency vehicles
tow trucks
motorcycles
Vehicles with more than one person
Allow the use of transponder tolls for vehicles that are willing to pay $5 to use the HOV lanes with only one person. Establish a bus line to run over the bridge if there is not already one in existence.
Build the two center HOV lanes with enough structural support to retro fit a light rail should the city decide for that option in the future.
HOV lanes and light rail are both rips.
I disagree with the premise of the article. Of course we (there’s that infamous we again) could do this. It is a lack of imagination among the bureaucrats we give the power to make these decisions. Or else it is because the bureaucrats have incentives to make safe, ugly decisions.
(2) The Millau Viaduct was finished overbudget and behind schedule. Partway through construction they revised the budget and the schedule and it came in slightly ahead of the revised schedule.
Europe is not funding a stupid as* war like we are. Funny what you can do with your infrastructure when you have an extra trillion dollars.
I’m curious, what is the difference between a viaduct and a bridge?
Wow, how amazingly beautiful. If you have to have a man-made structure spanning a valley, those are spectacular. Most bridges are terribly ugly.
So the real cost of the viaduct was far higher than the $700M the builder was paid: the builder got an upfront payment of $700M plus toll rights worth several times that amount.
A viaduct is over land. A bridge is over water.
Cheaper. How do we know that?
Actually, our allies are spending plenty of money. Apparently cowardice and math skills don't go hand in hand.
Funny what you can do with your infrastructure when you have an extra trillion dollars.
Our intervention in Iraq has cost nowhere near that number.
No funds that were earmarked for infrastructure were ever diverted for the intervention.
Do you have any other silly Democrat talking points that I can explode?
I agree with you. Let's bring the war on terrorism to our own shores. That way, we'll be able to view the remains of some of our women and children. I like a lot of blood and guts and especially the blood and guts of innocent women and children. /s
That project is longer than the Millau Viaduct (4km vs. 2.5km), was built over water and not the ground, and did not require giving the builder a 75 year concession enabling it to extract toll revenue from the public.
It has also won awards and acclaim as being beautiful structure.
Actually looks just like the one they built on 93 in Boston. Anyone have a pic.?
Both the private and government sectors have lost the vision for bold statements in architecture and construction. As an example, New York is seriously considering imposition of tolls merely for entering Manhattan during business hours. However, many of that area's traffic problems could be lessened by new bridges and tunnels, such as connecting New Jersey and Brooklyn via tunnels bypassing Manhattan, or bridges directly connecting Long Island and Connecticut. Meanwhile, existing infrastructure continues to deteriorate, as evidenced by the recent failure of the Interstate 35 bridge in Minneapolis.
Until our leaders in both business and government embrace bolder solutions, our economic competitiveness will decline and our infrastructure will approach Third World levels.
Also the Ravenel Bridge, despite being 60% longer than the Millau Viaduct, took only 25% longer to complete - four years vs. the Millau’s three years.
Correction. We used to build man's bridges. We aren't doing too good a job at any type of bridge, or tunnel, viaduct, etc., lately.
How many new bridges do we need?
They don’t pay for their own defense either, we do. That “stupid ass war” is one that will have to be fought and won, unless you like Sharia Law. You may like Muslims, but you aren’t gonna like Sharia Law.
Sometimes folks get caught up in the LOOK of a design, and don't think about the practicality of it.
Good one! Thanks for saving me the spit ;o)
I've heard that the states are having some of their federal road money taken back from them, and one reason listed is...you guessed it...the Iraq war. Of course, that could also be journalistic bias creeping in along with BDS.
big mac........yeah baby...ahead of schedule and under budget
And it stood as the longest single span suspension bridge in the world until about 85. Pretty amazing bridge that remains mostly unknown in America.
I believe you could put the entire golden gate bridge between the towers of the Might Mac. (It should have been on the michigan quarter too)
Fred Hartman Bridge, Baytown Texas - the longest cable-
stayed bridge in Texas, and one of only two such bridges
in the state. Construction cost of the bridge was $117.5M.
The bridge replaced the Baytown Tunnel, which had to be
removed when the Channel was deepened to 45 feet to
accommodate larger ships.
Might be different in earthquake, mudslide prone, socialtopia.
Fewer white elephant projects. Big deal.
Could an American consortium build a tower taller than the Taipei 101 or the Petronas Towers in Chicago? Of course. But there is no commercial demand for such a structure.
Could we build an enormous bridge from Sandusky, OH to Pelee Point, Ontario across Lake Erie?
Sure, but it would be pointless.
However, many of that area's traffic problems could be lessened by new bridges and tunnels, such as connecting New Jersey and Brooklyn via tunnels bypassing Manhattan, or bridges directly connecting Long Island and Connecticut.
The closest point between Connecticut and Long Island is probably the stretch of sound between Port Chester and Bayview (near Syosset). That's about eight miles over a stretch of water with midpoint islands - completely impractical when you have the Whitestone bridge 15 miles down the road from Port Chester.
Why would you build a tunnel from Bayonne to Red Hook, when you have the Verrazano?
Meanwhile, existing infrastructure continues to deteriorate, as evidenced by the recent failure of the Interstate 35 bridge in Minneapolis.
The investigation shows that the bridge collapsed due to a contractor's error when it was first built - not to poor maintenance.
Until our leaders in both business and government embrace bolder solutions, our economic competitiveness will decline and our infrastructure will approach Third World levels.
Ridiculous. In the actual Third World - like the Malaysia of the Petronas Towers of which you stand in such awe - once you get outside of the capital and the amin artery to the port, you're on dirt roads.
LENGTHS
Total Length of Bridge (5 Miles) 26,372 Ft.
8,038 Meters
Total Length of Steel Superstructure 19,243 Ft.
5,865 Meters
Length of Suspension Bridge (including Anchorages) 8,614 Ft.
2,626 Meters
Total Length of North Approach 7,129 Ft. 2,173 Meters
Length of Main Span (between Main Towers) 3,800 Ft.
1,158 Meters
HEIGHTS AND DEPTHS
Height of Main Towers above Water
552 Ft 168.25 Meters
Maximum Depth to Rock at Midspan Unknown Unknown
Maximum Depth of Water at Midspan 295 Ft. 90 Meters
Maximum Depth of Tower Piers below Water 210 Ft. 64 Meters
Height of Roadway above Water at Midspan 199 Ft. 61 Meters
Underclearance at Midspan for Ships 155 Ft. 47 Meters
Maximum Depth of Water at Piers 142 Ft. 43 Meters
Maximum Depth of Piers Sunk through Overburden 105 Ft. 32 Meters
CABLES
Total Length of Wire in Main Cables 42,000 Miles
67,592 km
Maximum Tension in Each Cable 16,000 Tons
14,515,995 kg
Number of Wires in Each Cable 12,580
Weight of Cables 11,840 Tons 10,741,067 kg
Diameter of Main Cables 24 1/2 Inches 62.23 cm
Diameter of Each Wire 0.196 Inches .498 cm
WEIGHTS
Total Weight of Bridge 1,024,500 Tons 929,410,766 kg
Total Weight of Concrete 931,000 Tons 844,589 kg
Total Weight of Substructure 919,100 Tons 833,793,495 kg
Total Weight of Two Anchorages 360,380 Tons 326,931,237 kg
Total Weight of Two Main Piers 318,000 Tons 288,484,747 kg
Total Weight of Superstructure 104,400 Tons 94,710,087 kg
Total Weight of Structural Steel 71,300 Tons 64,682,272 kg
Weight of Steel in Each Main Tower 6,500 Tons 5,896,701 kg
Total Weight of Cable Wire 11,840 Tons 10,741,067 kg
Total Weight of Concrete Roadway 6,660 Tons 6,041,850 kg
Total Weight of Reinforcing Steel
3,700 Tons 3,356,584 kg
RIVETS AND BOLTS
Total Number of Steel Rivets 4,851,700
Total Number of Steel Bolts 1,016,600
DESIGN AND DETAIL DRAWINGS
Total Number of Engineering Drawings 4,000
Total Number of Blueprints 85,000
MEN EMPLOYED
Total, at the Bridge Site 3,500
At Quarries, Shops, Mills, etc. 7,500
Total Number of Engineers 350
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9MlTF-ajEQ&feature=related
However, all our modern bridges use concrete, steel, etc - man-made products that do have a much shorter ‘shelf life’ than rock = many spans of Roman made bridges still stand, without any maintenance for hundreds of years.
And then there's this little ‘crib’ bridge in Maine, built in 1928 - the world's only crib-bridge - again, with stone (granite)...maintenance minimum - and it gets some rough seas... (I've traveled back and forth over it many times - )
http://www.city-data.com/picfilesv/picv15790.php
I wonder, going back the the Roman style, if not only the stone, but the arch structure doesn't distribute weight much better?
Gorgeous, eh?
Nice. Calling someone a coward without knowing any facts. What was your miltary career? Armchair general maybe?
Where did I say I was against the WOT? (I'm for it btw-Afghanistan, Shoring up our borders, deporting militant muslims, defeating AQ) Where did I say I was anti-miltary I'm not..far from it. Just that politically(not miltarily) the iraq war was a huge blunder.
Nice. Calling someone a coward without knowing any facts. What was your miltary career? Armchair general maybe?
Where did I say I was against the WOT? (I'm for it btw-Afghanistan, Shoring up our borders, deporting militant muslims, defeating AQ) Where did I say I was anti-miltary I'm not..far from it. Just that politically(not miltarily) the iraq war was a huge blunder.
How do they get to our shores? Do camels dogpaddle?
If we had a hardcore border policy and weed out muslims and all other people actually the problem would be solved.
That “extra trillion” wouldn’t be spent on infrastructure. It would be spent on yet more pork, in a continued attempt by Congress to use our money to buy our votes. I know it and you know it.
I never said the WOT was stupid a**-just the one in Iraq.
PS I don't like muslims I would deport the vast majority of them and shut down their hate filled churches in this country.
Sharia Law? I'm a practicing catholic and I believe that muslims have a "misguided" religion.
What a beautiful bridge. Absolutely stunning. Can we get one built in Detroit?
The last time I checked highway project can be classified as pork. Remember the million dollar bridge in AK that went no where?
Ansar al Islam. Do some reading, you'll be amazed at what you find. Our war is with Islam. Everywhere. Even in Iraq.
Then why are we not attacking Egypt, Jordan, Dubai, Saudi Arabia etc etc etc?
You don’t have to defeat everyone all at once. Usually making an example of one brings the others into line. If that doesn’t work, then we work on Iran, and so on down the list. This is elementary stuff, and you either don’t get it or don’t want to get it.
You are a loon. Thank God you are not in charge of foreign policy. So you are going to take on the entire Islamic world huh? Take em on like dominoes. LOL 1000 year war.
Arthur Ravenel Jr. Bridge HIGH over the Cooper River in Charleston, SC. A gorgeous structure....
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