Posted on 04/01/2008 8:47:48 PM PDT by Libloather
*like my dad for one,*
Mine too, he’s the same age as this man and also deaf in one ear.
He does exactly the same thing if he can’t quite hear what you’re saying, I have always found it to be a simple, nice piece of personal interaction between two different generations.
This cop obviously doesn’t and believes the appropriate respnse is to throw the old man on the ground.
So let me get this straight. When someone doesn't follow repeated orders, even after approached and within close proximity, and then that same person turns and makes physical contact...the officar should then run through his mind an extent list of possiblilities before doing anything.
Tell me, how long do you think that would take, and what, to , do you think should be the acceptable standard for such a time limit, and why. Feel free to post a quantitative list of these possibilities and their corresponding time index for each.
I agree, but not in the presence of what, by definiton, is conflict, which is what a protest or demonstration is. I think you, and many other posters here are being incredibly naive...
*I think you, and many other posters here are being incredibly naive...*
And you are entitled to your opinion but by trying to make out that telling an old man he has to move on is a major conflict situation that requires a presumably fit, healthy, young man to make a split second judgement involving throwing a 78 year old man on to the ground tells me that you are the sort of person who has way too much respect for government agents in uniforms.
I have stated my case repeatedly; if a paid servant of the public is not capable of differentiating between a perfectly non-agressive gesture from an obviously harmless old man in broad daylight and some sort of high intensity danger zone then he really shouldn’t be in the job.
You disagree, you believe a violent overreaction to a normal everyday physical act is justified because the person reacting has a tin badge and a fancy uniform.
I believe police and other public servants (note the two words “public” and “servants”) should respect free born citizens, you believe citizens must kow tow to government agents.
I know why I read FreeRepublic, is there a site called PoliceRepublic that you recommend I should read?
Look, you apparently have some issues here too. It's a 78 year old man! He cannot hear out of one ear. And while the cop would not know of that disability he could take a look at the guy and size him up. Common sense might have told him, okay maybe he doesn't hear too well. It's not like it is some rare condition in old people. And if some twenty ~ thirty year old cop, physically fit, and trained in restraining people, is unable to restrain a geriatric person, SHOULD HE COME AT HIM IN A "THREATENING" MANNER, he should probably find a new line of work.
The fact that he's unable to use good judgment and common sense in sizing people up, and is using a one response fits all approach to dealing with the public, he should still find a new line of work.
This cop way overreacted.
Police that invite the press into a situation to promote the publics knowledge of law-enforcement seem to forget the independence of the press also leads to their not always getting it right.
But a warrant-less seizure of a raid-gone wrong video tape should encourage photographers to have a "throw-down tape".
Whereas, some questionable cops are thought to carry an untraceable "throw down weapon" for use in a bad shooting (The perp was unarmed); the photographer needs something to give up with some semblance of resistance, while the real photo was captured and secreted on a 2gb SD card that the cop would never comprehend as a data device.
I am retired law-enforcement, but I have seen the rage of individuals when events became embarrassing such that they used their authority to save their tails.
Don't fight the cop, but use mental judo to cause the cop to think the cop is winning, then get the goods into a safe place.
The better officers you see, who do not allow them-selves to get into situations that escalate into violence use a form of verbal judo to deflect objections, give the other person a temporary sense of dignity, while still processing the necessary elements of the question or stop.
A cop, more than anyone needs to protect amendment rights. While the 1st amendment protects the press and might irritate the police, the officer needs to also respect the 4th amendment rights against illegal search and seizure of the reporter. Courts have allowed some actions on the spot, but they come under more extreme scrutiny than those more documented and sworn to applications for warrants made before a judge or magistrate.I was thrilled when reporters went along for the ride with the troops during the advance on Saddam. The Pentagon really took a chance, but it became a positive for our nation when credible reporters began to reveal the true daily events of our troops.
Cops should take a lesson from the embedded reporters and weigh the pros and cons before they try to use the press just to enhance their PR image.
The cop probably has an arrest that will barely pass muster, but will be quickly criticized by many other officers as showing weak character and impatient with a citizen, especially 78-year old Pops
Training failed this officer, and Police Management should take that into consideration.
The other dynamic in these political events is the heavy presence of Secret Service or another Protection Detail. All of the uniforms want to look good, and somehow some of them seem to think when Secret Service is there, the local cops can be more heavy-handed.
Does anyone know if BHO is being afforded Secret Service protection?
It’s funny and sad that there will always be someone that sides with idiocy. At what point in time did common sense fly out the window? Aren’t police trained to judge a situation? If the guy is 78 years old, how fast can he move to put his hand on the cop? You mean to tell me the cop was caught off-guard by a 78 year old man? If the guy wears a hearing aid, can it not be seen? A cop can’t see the hearing aid and think - maybe he can’t hear what I’m saying? This world is turning into a bizarro BS world very quickly.
Confused? Did the old man "assault" the officer or not? Assault is assault and we all can pretty much tell when a person is "assaulting" another person. We can also tell when one person is touching another person in a warm and friendly gesture. There is no gray area here. Is there a law against touching a police officer? Can we find out what really happened?
Hey Staff Writer, Jeri Rowe, try doing a little investigating. Here's a clue to help get you started...
At the time, Pop was being interviewed by a reporter from WFDD-FM (88.5).
Idiots...
Did you read the part about the 78 year old having a hearing aid? A hearing aid on the side the cop who was yelling at him, was on? That the 78 year old - with a hearing aid - was listening and talking to another person with his good ear while the ear with the hearing aid was turned away from the reporter and toward the view of the cop? Are you telling me that the cop did not see the hearing aid? And if he did see the hearing aid, he couldn’t make the mental connection that maybe this guy can’t hear me? It seems the first reaction this cop was prepared to make was a violent one. He should not be on the force.
Yes he is because it was reported/alleged early on that he received death threats.
Well, in this post 9/11 world; even though he is not the "official" presidential candidate, I would be surprised if he doesn't.
Based on your responses above, you sound like you were an intelligent, well trained LEO with common sense. I agree that this cop's training was lacking. The first thing I would have expected was that he do what you stated: shift his stance, protect his weapon, and perhaps extend his other hand to keep the man at bay. At which point more information (dialog) could commence to further understand the situation.
This situation irks me because I have an 82 year old father, who has a bad ear, and tends to get tunnel vision when concentrating on things. The rest of the world because noise in the background gets tuned out, and that's inside, in relative quiet. Outside on the side of a busy street, talking with a camera crew and all the other noise going on, even if the cop was on the side of the good ear (good with a hearing aid), doesn't mean the old man was processing what the cop was saying.
Thanks for adding the LEO reference. Folks, parlance is that this is pronounced L-E-O, each letter, not Leo, like the lion. I know there is some disagreement, but I was not a Leo, I was a cancer. (sign) LEO is synonym for Law Enforcement Officer, or as Popeye would say 'Ossifer'
bump
“I agree, but not in the presence of what, by definiton, is conflict, which is what a protest or demonstration is.”
One person holding a flag outside during a presidential candidate appearance is a conflict?
Those were not available in Feb., 1993 (Waco).
The whole country is becoming a liberal chithole. Socialism just feels more painful in NH when you have to attempt to fight for freedom in the courts over your kids and ‘income inequality’ crap comes up.
Ex paid $3,400 total support while I lived in NH for eight years in NH although she was a nurse. I am ordered to pay $22,000 in the next three years because son wanted to spend more time with Mom and I stupidly allowed a joint custody arrangement. She is finishing her last quarter of becoming a Masters in RN so my income was big and hers was small (at least for another quarter or so and hence, ‘income inequality cited by socialist martial master)
Maine taxes your check in the form of State income taxes to feed the welfare rats and deadbeats. But the courts and police are fair to both genders and uphold the law. That’s a big plus over NH which I really miss as my true home State. But I will not go back to a State that does not uphold the law and promotes social injustice using martial masters with no experience and police who are nothing more then tax collectors of the male society these days.
“I am ordered to pay $22,000 in the next three years”
All things are relative........
I am positive this gentelmen would NOT have been handcuffed, nor arrested, and most probably NOT bothered at all, if he were a 40 year old swarthy Middle Eastern type carrying a sign that said “Death to America!!”
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