Wyo. Lawsuit Alleges Prison Mealtime Violates Muslim Inmates' Freedom of Religion

FOX ^

[Sub-Driver]

Wyo. Lawsuit Alleges Prison Mealtime Violates Muslim Inmates' Freedom of Religion

Thursday , April 03, 2008

AP

CHEYENNE, Wyo. — The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit Thursday claiming that a Wyoming State Penitentiary policy restricting prisoners' mealtimes violates the constitutional rights of two Muslim inmates.

The ACLU filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court on behalf of Joseph Miller and Hurie Purdiman Jr., two inmates serving time at the penitentiary in Rawlins.

At issue is an alleged "20-minute rule" requiring inmates to eat their meals within 20 minutes after the food is delivered to a cell or common dining area, the lawsuit said. The lawsuit seeks for the inmates to be exempted from the rule because it forces them to choose between eating and practicing their religion.

Miller and Purdiman claim that meals have arrived at the same time of day that they're practicing prayers according to their Muslim faith. On other occasions, meals arrived during a period of religious fasting and then were confiscated before the fast ended at sunset.

"If someone has started their prayer, unless they're willing to interrupt their prayer and leave at that moment, they forgo their meal because (the guards) won't go back and open their cell doors," said Jennifer Horvath, staff attorney for Wyoming Chapter of the ACLU. "It's not unreasonable to ask for some extra time to finish their meals. They have a right to practice their religion, and the prison has been treating it as a privilege."

[Sub-Driver]

Mooslims in Wyoming????

Regardless - tough beans (pun....)

[Nailbiter]

If you do not do the crime, you will not have this problem.

[WVKayaker]

Wannabe Mooselimbs, I think.

They are probably OTW...(other than white), and are likely to have been incarcerated for violent crimes. But, they gotta pray, ya know!

Let them eat cake...

Cake! It’s what we let them eat. Cake! Gimme some of that Gimme some of that Home grown, way down home, yeah! Uh ha, uh ha, ho, yeah Gimme some of that, whew! Cake…

I love cake! I had a pig named cake! I love pork, too.

Mr. Mastodon Farm, Mr. Mastodon Farm, Cuts swatches out of all material. Mr. Mastodon Farm, Mr. Mastodon Farm, Cuts swatches out of all material.

Someone had to do the cakes right, and it was going to be us.

He began a pursuit of all things pound cake, adding floured blueberries to the batter, mixing in flavored yogurt, trying different kinds of nuts. His wife and daughter were impressed. So were his hunting buddies.

[econjack]

What kind of brain cells do you have to have to be a member of the ACLU. As far as dinner goes...no problem. Just don’t serve dinner to them. Better yet, make it a pulled pork sandwich with a side-o-bacon.

[NY.SS-Bar9]

When you become an incarcerated, convicted felon you forfeit many rights. Get used to it.

[STONEWALLS]

I hope this is a jury trial....if it’s just in front of a judge, then I’m worried....those ACLU b*stards are slick...they wait to find a leftist/activist judge appointed by Carter or Clinton and file.....that’s how they win....then they sock the loser with “legal fees” and pocket the cash.

[CharlesWayneCT]

I wonder if the responses here would be the same if the lawyers were ACLJ, and the prisoners were Catholics who were being fed at the wrong times or the wrong types of food during lent.

Or if the lawyers were from the ADL, and the prisoners were jewish people being forced to eat non-kosher foods.

In other words, do we truly believe that the First amendment’s words about freedom of religion should not even be considered once someone has committed a crime? Do we think that we should not care to give ANY accomodation whatsoever to people’s religion once they are in jail?

[SumProVita]

People who would pursue a case like this become more irrational with each passing day. The whole idea of being imprisoned for committing a crime is that one loses certain rights/freedoms. THAT is the notion of punishment (suffering the consequence of one’s actions).

[MBB1984]

This is what we can expect when we close down Gitmo and give terrorists ACLU trials right here in the US.

[Chode]

if the goathumpers want sharia... then cut their right hand off and send their azz home.

[mathurine]

Islam forfeited its status as a religion long ago. It is a gangster cult aimed at destroying western civilization. I don’t care if those two prisoners sh*t or go blind. It’s not a religious matter as far as I am concerned.

[MrB]

>>What kind of brain cells do you have to have to be a member of the ACLU.<<

Seems to me, you just have to hate traditional America.

[MrB]

Well, if you want to equate the validity of Islam with Catholicism or Judaism,

that’s your problem.

[Mister Da]

Let’s see! A convicted criminal loses most of his civil rights when he is convicted - including much of his religious freedom. While in prison, he may not attend the church of his choice, he may not go on a pilgrimage, etc.

So, why would he have a right to accommodation of his prayer times? To my knowledge, the Bill of Rights does not favor religious rights over all others, so if some rights make be taken away, that may include religious rights.

Next will come the “need” for a religious day of rest - Friday for muslims, Saturday for Jews, Sunday for Christians, & who knows what other religions will want a different day off. The effect would be segregation by religion.

Ridiculous!

[Tao Yin]

How many brain cells does it take to understand that you loose freedom in prison?

[JCG]

In other words, do we truly believe that the First amendment’s words about freedom of religion should not even be considered once someone has committed a crime? Do we think that we should not care to give ANY accomodation whatsoever to people’s religion once they are in jail?

If Santerians don't get to sacrifice a chicken or two now and then, why should Catholics, Jews or Islamonazis get special diets or prayer times?

I'm sure the dead chicken means just as much to them as anything the other religions require of their adherents.




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[no dems]

What are “peace loving”, kind, God-fearing Muslims doing in prison?

[SoFloFreeper]

Oh well. I guess they had better not break the law and get thrown in prison, then.

[ApplegateRanch]

I suggest you learn a bit more about the Muslim prayer times & rituals. This is entirely a red herring issue aimed at the ignorant.

They are CHOOSING to coincide their prayer time with meal times, which are fixed by the clock. Meal ablutions, if they practice those can be done in anticipation of serving.

The actual times of an particular prayer have a large leeway; and 4 out of the 5 daily (and the odd 1 out can in no way be anywhere near their meal times) can be ‘made up’ before performing the next.

There is also considerable latitude in who is & isn’t obligated by circumstance regarding the daily fast for Ramadan, which has them abstain from food sun rise to sun set, then pig out all night long.

This is not like they are being forced to eat non-halal; it is just a ‘let’s jerk arpound the ignorant Infidel’ shake down.

As for the ACLU, prisoners, Liberals, and Ted Turner’s recent ‘too many people in the world’ comment, I would agree, and start with eliminating Ted, the ACLU, and all violent criminals.

[WOBBLY BOB]

and if you’re so religously observant, why would you be in prison?

[G Larry]

These Muslim felons should take note the the Federal and State governments throughout these United States are making a practice of suppressing “Freedom of Religion”.
But the “victims” are largely Christian.

[NVDave]

The solution to this is pretty easy.

Let them have all the time they want to eat.

Outside.

For those who have never been through Rawlins, lemme tell you that there are few places with winters as fierce, with winds as high, as in Rawlins.

You put these clowns outside with their meal for eight hours anytime between October and May, tell them they get let back in when they’re done eating... and they’ll likely be back inside in 5 minutes.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Your statements require that I be versed in the particular religion, which I neither am nor particularly care to be.

I don’t think the government has much need to be evaluating people’s particular religion either. Government doesn’t have to reflexively respond to any person’s particular religious belief, simply be reasonably accomodating.

So I have no idea whether you are correct that these particular prisoners are lying about their faith and practice, or whether their statements are a reasonable practice of their religion.

I just feel wary of having courts decide what practices are “legally religious” and which are not.

[CharlesWayneCT]

It’s a good question. I presume that having access to chickens may be an unreasonable request — as might be having access to the appropriate tools to sacrifice those chickens.

I am nervous of the government deciding what is a reasonable, legal practice of religion. The question is whether the government has made a reasonable accomodation for whatever religious practices a person follows. Reasonable accomodation is independent of the particular religious practices.

In your example, the government should be able to easily demonstrate a compelling purpose for denying animal sacrifices in prison.

I think it would be harder for government to demonstrate a compelling government need to force prisoners to eat in a specific 20-minute period.

But maybe they CAN. I see an obvious argument that it would cost more to have a separate time to bring out food for a few special prisoners, just as it would cost more to have a special diet for a few prisoners. But I don’t think that cost would be enough to justify denying religious liberty.

But maybe there is an inherent danger to the guards in BRINGING the food, such that doing so in separate time periods would increase the risk to an unacceptable level. I would expect such an argument to be made at the trial and a judge can decide if it is compelling.

Unfortunately, freedom of religion carries with it some requirements to allow freedom for religious observances most of us might disagree with or find distasteful.

BTW, I don’t know specifically what types of religious observances are denied to prisoners. That would be a factor in how to handle this case — if most prisoners are denied those liberties, we can deny them here as well, or change the rules to deny them to NOBODY.

[CharlesWayneCT]

If you can show me in the Constitution where Judaism or Catholicism are given more “validity” than other religions, I will withdraw my complaint, which is based NOT on my personal opinion of various world religions, but on the founding principles of our nation.

[G L Tirebiter]

They need to post a big sign on the wall of the in-processing facility:

“This AIN’T Burger King. You will not have it “Your Way”.

[MrB]

I’m going to make up a religion that requires steak and potatoes at every meal and not ever being in an enclosure less than 100 square feet,

and charge a buttload to join my “religion”.

How many jailbirds could I get to join, ya think?

[CharlesWayneCT]

I’m guessing you will have difficulty showing a judge that you lived by those standards before you were arrested.

[JCG]

BTW, I don’t know specifically what types of religious observances are denied to prisoners. That would be a factor in how to handle this case — if most prisoners are denied those liberties, we can deny them here as well, or change the rules to deny them to NOBODY.

Convicts should have the right to basic food, clothing and shelter and freedom from excessively brutal treatment.  All other rights that ordinary law-abiding citizens have -- including religious practice -- should be apportioned and restricted as the prison staff sees fit.




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[CharlesWayneCT]

Why? Would you deny prisoners access to a Bible just because the prison staff doesn’t like Christianity?

[JCG]

Why? Would you deny prisoners access to a Bible just because the prison staff doesn’t like Christianity?

I didn't say anything about denying Bibles to anyone.  What's appropriate in religious practice should be decided by prison staff and law.  A convict can always pray to his/her god without asking permission.

(I would add basic medical care to my list of rights, though.)

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[CharlesWayneCT]

You said Convicts should have the right to basic food, clothing and shelter and freedom from excessively brutal treatment. All other rights that ordinary law-abiding citizens have -- including religious practice -- should be apportioned and restricted as the prison staff sees fit.

So I asked if it would be OK with you if the prison staff decided to restrict and apportion the rights of the prisoners by denying them bibles. You SAID they should be allowed to restrict anything other than food, clothing, shelter, and freedom from harm.

So I am asking -- would you add the Bible to the things the prison staff can't deny to the prisoners, or is it OK if they decide to keep the prisoners from the Bible?

If you decide that prisoners DO have a right to bibles, would you also give them access to the Torah, or the Koran, or the Book of Mormon?

[JCG]

So I am asking -- would you add the Bible to the things the prison staff can't deny to the prisoners, or is it OK if they decide to keep the prisoners from the Bible?

It would not be a prisoner's right to have a Bible.  (Nor a Koran, nor a Book of Mormon, nor a halal meal, nor a toilet turned away from facing Mecca, nor a poster of L. Ron Hubbard, nor a live chicken and a butcher knife.)

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