who was it said "I spent all my money on women and booze... the rest i wasted."
Posted on 04/05/2008 9:57:57 AM PDT by kiriath_jearim
THERE IS NO question that the federal government plus many lenders and financial professionals shoulder a lot of the blame for our current economic crisis.
But many of the individuals who are overloaded with debt need to take responsibility for their bad choices, too. Take credit card debt, for example. Certainly there has been a tremendous push -- for decades -- by financial institutions to get people to view credit cards as indispensable.
And consumers gladly went along with no complaint, using other people's money until life's hardships -- a job loss, illness or divorce -- got in the way and they could no longer pay today for what they long since had purchased.
In a recent online discussion, my guest was Stuart Vyse, author of "Going Broke: Why Americans Can't Hold On to Their Money." Vyse joined me to discuss why so many people can't save. Here's a partial transcript of that chat:
Q: Do you think past generations had more discipline than we do now or simply less opportunities to get into debt, or both?
A: I think it is mostly the greater temptations we face today. Earlier generations did not have to contend with Internet shopping, credit cards that are widely available, catalogs combined with 800 numbers, and a consumer economy that depends on everybody spending. At the same time, saving has gone out of fashion. The current generation has not acquired the habit of saving.
Q: Do you personally think that Americans will be better able to "hold on to their money" in the future?
A: I only think future generations will be able to do better if they begin to think differently about the things they want. They will need to think more about the value of money in the bank and activities that do not cost money. If future generations continue to watch lots of TV and continue to want the things they see on the screen, they will have trouble. But many of the best things in life don't cost money.
Q: Why do you think it is so easy to slide into credit card debt?
A: Credit cards have the wonderful and dangerous quality of feeling like free money. With the card, you can buy things you can't afford and put the pain of payment off into the future. Furthermore, our psychology is such that we tend to think very optimistically about the future. We say, "It will be OK. I will be able to pay the bill when the time comes." But we forget that things can and often do go wrong. Other expenses crop up that we don't anticipate. Before you know it, you are in trouble.
Q: How can America get past this culture of consumerism? And I'm not throwing stones. Though I have no consumer debt, I've only recently started saving. There are examples everywhere, from the various housing crises to the wider advertisements of payday- advance loans to the introduction of even more eight-cylinder or otherwise high-horsepower, and thus gas-guzzling, automobiles.
A: It is going to be difficult to throw off the chains of consumerism. Much of the economy depends on it. But it is also clear that, with so many people in debt and barely making ends meet, millions of individual citizens are paying dearly. Limits on advertising and reasonable limits on credit would help. Also, it is very important that we begin to teach the value of saving and living within one's means. Being in debt is becoming an accepted norm, but the anxiety and pain that it creates are often hidden. So many people would be much, much happier if they could live more simply and in the black.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
For people who are mature enough to take the action I suggest a dose of common sense Dave Ramsey . Although he only teaches what we all know already , it helps people to hear and see it from a 3rd party source .
I married into debt. $25,000 worth.
I was $3,000 shy of debt free six years later. Some here know what happened after that.
What is this "WE" stuff? I'm really tired of "journalists" writing stories like this making it sound like the MAJORITY (WE) are all suffering from the same thing.
You might as well go into debt - otherwise you’ll be paying for everybody else’s debt without anything to show for it.
Whats this we s#@t.....?
Half truth.
I remember, back in the 60's when CC's hit big time.
They were all but forced on the public.
You could not get a check cashed without showing "two major credit cards" for ID.
Your driver's license and/or social security card were not sufficient. You had to have two CC's. (There were no Debit Cards).
This pretty much forced people into getting the cards - and then it went downhill from there.
sorry beat me to it
???????
We didn't and we're debt free.
the watchword during WW11 was:
Use it up.
Wear in out.
Make it do or
do without.
and my Gramma used to say:
It ain't a bargain if you don't need it."
Amen. People who go into debt up to their eyeballs shouldn’t get a reprieve on my dime, but I’m afraid that’s what is only just starting to happen right now.
You should get a kick out of this then.
http://consumerist.com/consumer/clips/snl-skit-dont-buy-stuff-you-cant-afford-252491.php
Two picture IDs was the rule here in some stores. Got Drivers License and Concealed Carry Permit. Many red faces. They only ask for one ID now. Decided to zero out my Visa, etc. Not a lot on the cards, but it was unreal how long it took to pay it down.
“Some here know what happened after that.”
You offed your wife?
I paid my last one off last week. felt great
“What is this “WE” stuff? I’m really tired of “journalists” writing stories like this making it sound like the MAJORITY (WE) are all suffering from the same thing.”
I was about to say the samething.
Thank you.
When I use the 'we' on my hubby he always says, what we, you got a mouse in your pocket. lol
Yes, and the WWII generation that made such a show of their thrift is now gobbling Medicare money like there's no tomorrow.
I find credit cards very useful. I just pay them off at the end of the month.
It’s basically a cultural and educational problem. People need to be taught the value of independence. Unfortunately our schools, media, and culture teach the opposite.
Well, I have to confess we’re in debt now. Never were before, but we knowingly and lovingly went several thousand in the hole for our child a couple months ago. Said kiddo needed it to compete at state level (#3 in the state!) and it’s already causing our mailbox to fill up with “we want you” letters so hopefully a college scholarship will come as well. Not that we’d ever default on it but it’s going to be a long while before it’s paid off. Just needed to say there are a few folks out there who run up bills on legitimate things and not fritter it off on hookers and booze.
WTF????? Aren't hookers and booze "legitimate" things? In my book they are!....:)
“I find credit cards very useful. I just pay them off at the end of the month.”
My Discover Card is indispensable. I use it for everything from gas and groceries to dentist bills and airline tickets. At 2% cash back, I pick up around $800 a year in cash rebates.
And of course I don’t pay interest. That would be dumb.
The Credit Card companies share the blame. Their bait and switch tactics have locked a lot of people into debt. It should be considered fraud to offer a 7% fixed rate and then sell it, change the terms and eventually be charging 30%.
We have become a credit card society because our bankers and retail stores demand it.
In our home we have only one card between us for reservations and when traveling only, and pay it off each month. No, we are not affluent by any stretch of the imagination.
The trick is to live beyond your means and then die
Thanks for reminding me - gotta sign up for the safety course so's I can get my CCP renewed.
I let it lapse years ago and now we have to jump through hoops to get it. But I will, before it gets even tougher...
and if we let the Socialists/Marxists into the WH - I'll be the little ole granny, sitting in her rocker on the porch when the gun collectors come, = with her guns ON.
Sorry, Mr. editor, that is incorrect English.
The proper grammar would be “as well,” not “too”
Again, sorry for the grammar police, but this rag is named the Seattle Post- Intelligencer
So, live up to your name or shut up.
who was it said "I spent all my money on women and booze... the rest i wasted."
who was it said "I spent all my money on women and booze... the rest i wasted."
Probably W.C. Fields.
Probably W.C. Fields.
;-)
“Ninety percent I’ll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other 10 percent I’ll probably waste.”
—Tug McGraw, Quoted in Bert Sugar, Book of Sports Quotes (1979)
my my
Of course, the fact they paid into the system for decades and now have a hundred dollars a month deducted from their social security, plus pay a premium, plus 20% for medical costs = doesn't factor into your calculations. They're just sponges...
Of course, when you get to that age, YOU will refuse Medicare, right? Although I don't know's you have a choice. After all, the gov't isn't about to let their hands loose of that monthly payment - that goes up every year - has doubled in the past 8.
In the meantime, maybe you should let go of some of your simmering resentment. That way, you'll be healthier and less in need of medical care.
Who’s we? I don’t have credit card debt.
Any retailer encouraging using a credit card on a 99¢ coffee is a moron. It cost almost 40¢ to run a credit card through (+- 10¢ depending on the company). My company had over $8 million in credit card fees last year on sales of around $700m which ignoring that would have increased profits by a considerable %.
What has been paid and is being paid still isn't enough to put the thing into the black. Does what someone else has paid justify them burdening someone else with debt?
Of course, when you get to that age, YOU will refuse Medicare, right?
You talk like the debt parade will go merrily on forever. Medicare won't be there in the current form when I retire even though I've been coughing up all my working life. I'm not close to retirement but Medicare will bust in 9 years. The options: 1)More debt 2)higher taxes 3)Fewer benes. Which one(s) do you chose.
you should let go of some of your simmering resentment.
You shouldn't mistake prudence for resentment. The consumer debt problem is troubling but ultimately self correcting. Bad borrowers go bust and lenders get punished with the loss. The biggest problems looming are the one created on the Federal level.
Would have been cheaper, but no.
I just discovered Dave Ramsey a few months ago, and although I wish I would have known about him & his financial philosophy years ago, it probably wouldn't have helped; since when times are good, debt does seem like a useful tool! Oh well, live & learn. Thank God I live in a county where I can make dumb decisions and still live better than 90% of the rest of the world!
>I remember, back in the 60’s when CC’s hit big time.
They were all but forced on the public.
You could not get a check cashed without showing “two major credit cards” for ID.<
BS. You make it sound as if we didn’t have access to cash back then. I used checks for paying bills by mail and if I wanted/needed anything else I paid cash. I had one American Express and one BofA credit card that I kept in the safe and never used unless I was going to be out of town for a couple of weeks. Even then I rarely used them.
Valid point, but consider this . . . How much lower would your company's sales figure have been if they didn't accept credit cards in the first place?
Nonsense. All those 1.99%, 3.99%, etc. INTRODUCTORY offers come with a fininte term, then revert to a normal or higher than normal rate, and you usually can only apply the super saver rate on balance transfers. They're great for temporarily saving some interest, and then you can transfer back to your main card.
If you find yourself paying 30% it's because you've missed a payment, at which time you might find that EVERY card you hold has jumped to the maximum allowable, as explained in black and white on the contract you signed.
The key is to be responsible, don't take on more debt than you can pay for, don't sign contracts you don't intend to honor, and don't come crying to your fellow citizen to pay your bills.
The people who are not in debt, but have saved and invested are and will continue to subsidize (through inflation, bailouts, and interest tax deductions) the borrowing and spending of others. ‘Savers’ are producing more than they are consuming at any given time, and ‘borrowers’ are consuming more than they are producing. It’s all a balance. The drive for the savers is to exchange their excess production today for somebody else’s excess production in the future. But if that excess production does not come to exist, then the savers won’t be able to get anything back on their savings. In a nutshell, that’s inflation (and governement bailouts & tax rebates etc. are just more inflation, in disguise.)
Yep - and I'm still astounded as to why anyone in their right mind would use a debit card. Using a credit card, you can get - if you time your purchase right on the billing schedule - a two month float.
thx... 8^)
bingo... and debit cards don't pay bonus/reward points either.
That seems to be the policty of our Federal Government.
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