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Army takes HK416s from special unit
Military.com ^ | 12 March 08 | Matthew Cox

Posted on 04/08/2008 5:33:15 PM PDT by LSUfan

Source is headline and link-only. Click here for full article


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 416; army; banglist; m16; m4
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To: LSUfan

This is the kind of $%#@ that burns me to no end! WE ARE AT WAR! Use the tools the get the job done the best, bottom line!

Apparently the puffed shirts at the Pentagon think sticking with the M4 is just fine and dandy. Let them use it outside the wire for a change.


21 posted on 04/08/2008 6:06:01 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascists inside and outside our borders, now ACT LIKE IT!)
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To: LSUfan

It is totally awesome. But it’s not parts compatible with the M16/M4. The 416 is an obvious upgrade to the M16. Well, lets see, the grip, trigger, and magazine are the same as the M16, but that’s about it I think.

The impressive thing about the SCAR is that it is available in 308 caliber and this version of the rifle can be FIELD MODIFIED to shoot AK 30 caliber ammo and mags taken off the killed enemy combatants.


22 posted on 04/08/2008 6:07:00 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: LSUfan
The FN SCAR is available in both 5.56 and 7.62, and the HK416 was not available when SOCOM bought the FN SCAR.

SOCOM has bought a bunch of HK416s as well in recent years, however.

23 posted on 04/08/2008 6:12:16 PM PDT by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: Birdsbane
You do not have the power to question my decisions:-()

Photobucket

24 posted on 04/08/2008 6:13:12 PM PDT by geo40xyz (McCain, Obama or Hillarybeast possibility of 4 Supreme Court Justices, Gore @UN. The WINNER is?)
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To: Yo-Yo

Right on! Another stupid decision by the Brass. Listen to the soldiers, not the chair-polishers.

The Army wouldn’t let my son carry his own personal handgun when he went into Iraq, as a backup weapon. Now, he liked the M249 and used it effectively, but what happens if it jams? He might have had an M-16 around, but it is not the most reliable weapon either.

Oh, about that knife in his boot!

[PS: Heard the same complaints about military policies in Vietnam. Most guys on “point” used sawed off shotguns, often sent from home, because they were more effective for close-in fighting, esp. in an ambush.]

What is wrong with our military leaders here at home?


25 posted on 04/08/2008 6:13:35 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: LSUfan
Taking H&K out of the hands of our special ops is like taking the paintbrushes out of Michaelangelo hands.

Ba$tards!

26 posted on 04/08/2008 6:15:52 PM PDT by IllumiNaughtyByNature (Senator McCain, what did GWB promise you back in 2000? And you believed him? BWAHAAAAA!)
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To: LSUfan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LWRC_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle

Im actually more impressed by this rifle than by the SCAR or the 416. The LWRC IAR should be the next rifle adopted by all branches of the military. The IAR also uses a piston mechanism as in the 416 and is also an M16 variation. But is has a finned barrel, kinda like the old tommy guns did, and also has a selector switch that allows it to fire from an open bolt as in the FN minimi.


27 posted on 04/08/2008 6:17:15 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: LSUfan

REMFs at work.


28 posted on 04/08/2008 6:23:15 PM PDT by em2vn
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To: Squantos

29 posted on 04/08/2008 6:30:29 PM PDT by glock rocks (Corporate globalists are the principal source of funding for the left.)
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To: LSUfan
This is the height of stupidity for these politicians (but then, I repeat myself) to essentially dictate what special forces has to "make do with!"

The following is simply an observation: The US Army desperately needs to upgrade the weapons systems of the infantryman as well as any sidearm carried by support personnel and officers.

The M16/M4 series has had it's day and so has the 5.56mm cartridge. The basic platform is okay as it goes as can be seen in the somewhat derivative H&K 416, which is still a huge improvement in the reliability factor. But the 5.56 isn't doing the job. Perhaps the 6.8mm would be a better choice. If the operations anticipated in future war will be engagements at less than 300 meters than perhaps one answer could be found in the .300 "Whisper." Perhaps not, but it's a suggestion. Maybe the 300 Whisper could be a specialty cartridge for SOF folks but then they'd only fall victim to those same bottom feeding bureaucrats. In any case, there must be trials to discern what might be superior and then to seize that information and actually act upon it.

I also think that suppressor technology can be advanced to the point that a suppressor can be attached to all battle rifles lowering noise signature and flash. Probably make BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) easier to teach, too. But that's a side issue and I certainly don't have the knowledge to speak with authority.

Speaking of sidearms, now: IF we weren't constrained by the Hague accords on ammunition and could employ JHPs with our 9mm sidearms they'd probably be fine since technology makes the expansion properties of the 9mm and the 45ACP nearly identical while still allowing for the single most important factor in a handgun encounter at any range: SHOT PLACEMENT. Still if we're stuck with BALL ammo then the 9mm becomes wholly inadequate. Cross sectional density and velocity almost dictate the tried and historically proven 45 ACP, but NOT the 1911 platform. I know a lot of folks will consider that heresy, but I think that the H&K 45 should be the sidearm of the future armed forces. Just MHO.

30 posted on 04/08/2008 6:30:39 PM PDT by ExSoldier (Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.)
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To: Kenny Bunk
The 6.8SPC conversion requires a change of the barrel, the bolt (the case head is a different size than the .223). The magazine bodies are basically the same, but the spring and follower must be modified. The lowers of the M16/M4 aren't changed in the conversion.
31 posted on 04/08/2008 6:37:20 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Bureaucrats exercising their power.

Bureaucrats lining their pockets.
Follow the money!

32 posted on 04/08/2008 6:37:51 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: LSUfan
Idiots!!
33 posted on 04/08/2008 6:38:33 PM PDT by Charlespg (Peace= When we trod the ruins of Mecca and Medina under our infidel boots.)
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To: Kenny Bunk
The lower half of the HK416, including all the controls, the stock, the fire control parts etc are exactly the same. The upper half is almost the same, with the addition of an aluminum rail handguard instead of the plastic ones. They take the same magazines and ammo. Almost identical.

The big difference is instead of the hot gases and dirt being vented directly into the receiver to push the action back, there is a gas piston inside the front handguard. That way the hot gases and dirt don't get blown back inside the receiver into all the working parts, they just exit into the air through the handguard. The receiver parts stay clean and cool and oiled. It's a simple, subtle change borrowed from the Kalashnikov, which is proven to work better when dirty or without maintenance. So you get the best of both worlds; you get the elegant, accurate M4 with AK reliability.

But hey, let's not upgrade the rest of them, let's go back to the devil we know.

34 posted on 04/08/2008 6:39:29 PM PDT by Sender (Stop Islamisation. Defend our freedom.)
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To: ExSoldier

For a sidearm, I’d vote for something along the lines of a sig 250 modular setup. For caliber, a 10mm.


35 posted on 04/08/2008 6:40:33 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
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To: Kenny Bunk

Someone may have already touched on this, but you are correct. The 416 uses the same exact lower receiver, stock assembly, and magazine as the M-16/M-4.

The only thing that gets changed out is the upper reciever assembly which will be the same thing that happens IF and when the Army goes with the 6.8mm round. That is a big if since we would have to get NATO on board to do that because the current 5.56mm is the NATO standard for rifles.


36 posted on 04/08/2008 6:45:16 PM PDT by 2CAVTrooper (If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?)
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To: LSUfan

I’d like to know the price tag on the HK compared to the M4.

My guess is that it’s close to double.


37 posted on 04/08/2008 6:47:39 PM PDT by Atlas Sneezed (Guns don’t kill people, criminals and the governments that create them do.)
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To: BGHater

38 posted on 04/08/2008 6:50:55 PM PDT by maine-iac7 ("...but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" LINCOLN)
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To: LSUfan
The reason Colt management is so scared of the HK is because Colt long ago retired/fired the handfull of engineers, technicians and machinists needed to improve the weapon.
39 posted on 04/08/2008 6:52:06 PM PDT by fso301
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To: Aut Pax Aut Bellum

Someone (Bushmaster, I think) has recently reintroduced the AR-180 with a plastic lower. I’ve never known anyone who owns one.


40 posted on 04/08/2008 6:56:11 PM PDT by Sender (Stop Islamisation. Defend our freedom.)
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