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Attorney: Girl too young for attack case (Brutally attacked another girl on a playground)
AP on Yahoo ^ | 4/10/08 | AP

Posted on 04/10/2008 11:58:49 AM PDT by NormsRevenge

ERIE, Pa. - Two young girls accused of brutally attacking another girl on a playground are too emotionally immature to understand the criminal charges against them and the charges should be dismissed, their attorneys said.

The girls, ages 10 and 11, face aggravated assault and other charges for the attack on another 10-year-old girl at an elementary school playground the evening of April 3. The girls are accused of stomping on the victim and breaking her hip, police said.

Erie County Public Defender Tony Logue says he will ask a Juvenile Court judge to dismiss criminal charges against the 10-year-old girl.

"How can my attorney effectively communicate with his clients given the client's chronological age versus emotional age?" Logue said.

Attorney Bruce Sandmeyer said he has similar concerns for his client, the 11-year-old, and expects to file a similar motion in the coming days.

"My client is just 11 years old and just an elementary school student," Sandmeyer said.

The lawyers said the case should be treated as a dependency case, not a delinquency case. In legal terms, a judge who rules a child is dependent can place the child under the supervision of the Erie County Office of Children and Youth.

A delinquency case, which is what the girls currently face, is the juvenile court equivalent of a criminal case. If the girls are found delinquent, the equivalent of a guilty verdict, they could be confined in a juvenile detention facility or otherwise be under the supervision of the court until they turn 21.

Ian Murray, another lawyer for the 10-year-old girl, said she and her family feel deep remorse for the attack. "This is tragic for everyone, especially the victim," Murray said.

Family members of the 11-year-old suspect say she is an "A" and "B" student who has never been in trouble before.

The injured girl said the other girls pulled her off the monkey bars and attacked after she told the girls to stop splashing water on her 8-year-old sister in the school playground. Police said the victim was repeatedly stomped on the head and legs.

The victim remains hospitalized and is expected to undergo at least one week of rehabilitation at a hospital. She has three pins in her hip to keep the bones in place and may eventually need a hip replacement, her mother said.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: assault; attack; attorney; girl; playground; tooyoung
The injured girl said the other girls pulled her off the monkey bars and attacked after she told the girls to stop splashing water on her 8-year-old sister in the school playground. Police said the victim was repeatedly stomped on the head and legs.
1 posted on 04/10/2008 11:58:49 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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The girls, ages 10 and 11, face aggravated assault and other charges for the attack on another 10-year-old girl at an elementary school playground the evening of April 3. The girls are accused of stomping on the victim and breaking her hip, police said.


2 posted on 04/10/2008 12:00:08 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed ... ICE’s toll-free tip hotline —1-866-DHS-2-ICE ... 9/11 .. Never FoRGeT)
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To: NormsRevenge

Placing them in some sort of kiddie jail for a few days might help their “immaturity”. Placing their parents there might also help.


3 posted on 04/10/2008 12:00:13 PM PDT by Da Coyote
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To: NormsRevenge

Too emotionally immature to understand, my foot. At 10 years old I certainly understood that it’s wrong to attack someone.


4 posted on 04/10/2008 12:03:11 PM PDT by American Quilter (Conservative Tribe Name: Writes with Eagle Feather)
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To: NormsRevenge

Another shining example of how government schools promote “socialization”—something tragically denied to homeschoolers, who are condemned to living in the narrow, confining world defined by their parents.


5 posted on 04/10/2008 12:03:28 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: NormsRevenge

I don’t think you can say..”monkey bars” anymore...........


6 posted on 04/10/2008 12:03:47 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Molon Labe)
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To: NormsRevenge

If an incident like this convinces just one family to remove their own children from government schools, then this girl’s hip will not have been broken in vain.


7 posted on 04/10/2008 12:04:20 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: NormsRevenge

Erie County Public Defender Tony Logue says he will ask a Juvenile Court judge to dismiss criminal charges against the 10-year-old girl.

“How can my attorney effectively communicate with his clients given the client’s chronological age versus emotional age?” Logue said.

Attorney Bruce Sandmeyer said he has similar concerns for his client, the 11-year-old, and expects to file a similar motion in the coming days.

These 2 attorneys are complete morons, I guess all animals should get a pass until they reach a “level” of maturity./s


8 posted on 04/10/2008 12:04:32 PM PDT by Dmitry Vukicevich (Pray for the Serbs because even Bush believes the idiocy.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Then punish the parents.

At 10 and 11 they know the difference, give them their JD’s. If the 11 year old is an A/B student, then she is capable of knowing right from wrong; if she is a sociopath, then sh should not be mainstreamed.

Their reaction was to being told to stop bullying an 8 year old, the victim did what was right and was punished for it. Any lack of punitive action against the two of them will send the wrong message.

I do hope they were expelled at least.

Now the family can hit them and the school/ town with a civil suit since the victim was not protected from the attack.


9 posted on 04/10/2008 12:07:07 PM PDT by Former Dodger ( "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." --Einstein)
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To: NormsRevenge
Incompetent to Stand Trial

Definition:

The defendant lacks substantial mental capacity to understand the proceedings or assist in his or her own defense.

Does a 10 year old lack substantial mental capacity to understand the proceedings and assist in their own defense???

10 posted on 04/10/2008 12:08:34 PM PDT by rednesss (Fred Thompson - 2008)
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To: American Quilter

@#$%@#$!!!

my THREE YEAR OLD understands consequences.

The parents in these cases should be jailed.

Maybe a consequence like that would cause a bit more parenting to happen.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. —


11 posted on 04/10/2008 12:08:40 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: NormsRevenge
Test the two girls psychologically to see if they are psychopaths. If it looks like either one is, then they should be removed from the presence of other children once they demonstrate that they can't control themselves.
12 posted on 04/10/2008 12:11:04 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: NormsRevenge
This is tragic for everyone, especially the victim
Oh yeah, the victim, remember her? Freakin' lawyers.
13 posted on 04/10/2008 12:15:15 PM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Osage Orange

Correction: I don’t think you can say the “M” word anymore.


14 posted on 04/10/2008 12:15:18 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (It takes a father to raise a child.)
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To: NormsRevenge

PC ALERT!!!!! The article mentions “monkey bars”!!!!!!! Call the PC police!!!!!!!


15 posted on 04/10/2008 12:16:30 PM PDT by Leftism is Mentally Deranged
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To: Osage Orange

And I’ll bet “jungle gyms” are definately out too. LOL!


16 posted on 04/10/2008 12:17:33 PM PDT by prairiebreeze (I am a proud supporter of Israel.)
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To: Leftism is Mentally Deranged

And don’t you dare install those things on your front porch.


17 posted on 04/10/2008 12:18:23 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: Arthur McGowan

It’s quite likely that these girls’ violently out of control behavior is rooted in their home experiences. I’m no fan of public schools, but most 10-11 year old students in public elementary schools don’t do things like this (especially girls, and especially in places like Erie PA). If these girls’ parents suddenly announced they planned to start homeschooling their little darlings, I’d want to see a thorough investigation of the homes and parents first. Something is very wrong with these girls that isn’t wrong with the other kids at the same school, and the court should be looking hard for the source of the problem.


19 posted on 04/10/2008 12:22:37 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: NormsRevenge

10 and 11 is more than old enough to know what you’re doing when you deliberately and viciously attack someone like this.

The attorney is lying out of his @ss and knows it.


20 posted on 04/10/2008 12:22:48 PM PDT by reagan_fanatic (feh)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Well said, sir.


21 posted on 04/10/2008 12:23:09 PM PDT by RepoGirl ("Tom, I'm getting dead from you, but I'm not getting Undead..." -- Frasier Crane)
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To: NormsRevenge

the charges should not be dismissed. These kids knew what they were doing and they should have to pay in one way or another. Find some way or something they have to do to make this right. They just can’t let them walk away. I know they are minors but...still...while I’m not saying send them to prison of course but...something needs to be done here so these kids know now they have to take responsibility for an act that hurt someone else. It’s gotta start somewhere.


22 posted on 04/10/2008 12:24:28 PM PDT by cubreporter
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Jeff Chandler
You are so right.....

Sorry for my error.......

Please don't fine me........

25 posted on 04/10/2008 12:29:42 PM PDT by Osage Orange (Molon Labe)
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To: MrB
In pictures
26 posted on 04/10/2008 12:30:32 PM PDT by whd23
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To: NormsRevenge

They’re old enough to understand a good spanking, I’ll bet you.


27 posted on 04/10/2008 12:32:06 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: Arthur McGowan

“Another shining example of how government schools promote “socialization”—something tragically denied to homeschoolers, who are condemned to living in the narrow, confining world defined by their parents.”

This happened on a school playground but it DIDN ‘T happen during school. It happened at 7 p.m.


28 posted on 04/10/2008 12:34:36 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: Arthur McGowan

“If an incident like this convinces just one family to remove their own children from government schools, then this girl’s hip will not have been broken in vain.”

You really ought to check your facts. These could have been homeschooled kids on the playground.


29 posted on 04/10/2008 12:35:47 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: whd23

That’s too weird...


30 posted on 04/10/2008 12:36:21 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Morgana

What, flash the peace sign?


31 posted on 04/10/2008 12:36:28 PM PDT by MrNeutron1962
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To: RepoGirl

“Well said, sir.”

Since this happened well after school ended for the day, the comment makes no sense. Last time I looked, homeschooled kids also played on school playgrounds.


32 posted on 04/10/2008 12:39:40 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: MrB

That’s the ticket!!! Stone the brats to death.

Oh wait, that’s what the Muslims do.


33 posted on 04/10/2008 12:41:00 PM PDT by gracesdad
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To: Arthur McGowan

EXHIBIT: Parents who shouldn’t homeschool

DAD ARRESTED AFTER (WITH MOM) OVER WHICH GANG RIGHT FOR BABY

“When Mom wears one set of gang colors and Dad wears another, conflict over how to raise the baby can cause irreconcilable differences.”

more: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1999636/posts


34 posted on 04/10/2008 12:42:24 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: gracesdad

You might, at first read, take it the way that you have.

But then, on further examination, we have a young man who has refused correction and is a danger to society.
His parents, knowing the penalty, would not take this action lightly,
and the elders of the church provide a second layer of “non-frivolous” application of this penalty.

Examining the incentives, this prescription causes parents to make sure their offspring do not get to this point, and is also a penalty that the offspring themselves can see as a deterrent to the behavior that leads to it.

If you were to examine “he who will not work, nor shall he eat” - it might seem cruel, if you only examine the penalty instead of the incentives it engenders.


35 posted on 04/10/2008 12:45:07 PM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Morgana
It's possible that only one of the two girls is a psychopath (only one of the two Columbine killers was), because normal kids can be convinced by psychopaths to join in to horrible behavior. Here is a good article on the problem, with some examples of how early it appears and the symptoms.
36 posted on 04/10/2008 12:54:02 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: gracesdad

Thanks for sharing, I stand corrected, Oh Wise One.


37 posted on 04/10/2008 1:01:07 PM PDT by RepoGirl ("Tom, I'm getting dead from you, but I'm not getting Undead..." -- Frasier Crane)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; Arthur McGowan

Oops, typing malfunction — that headline should have read:

DAD ARRESTED AFTER DISPUTE (WITH MOM) OVER WHICH GANG RIGHT FOR BABY


38 posted on 04/10/2008 1:03:24 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: gracesdad

Yeah, even as a homeschooler, my siblings and I played on public school playgrounds (but not during the school day). In fact, we’d go there and take pictures of each other to practice our photography, or my brother would go up on weekend evenings to play pickup sports, or whatever - we had our fair share of escapades on school property.


39 posted on 04/10/2008 1:07:15 PM PDT by Hyzenthlay (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Give me a break! My daughter is 10 and she would never do anything like this, nor would her friends. They are certainly old enough to understand right and wrong!


40 posted on 04/10/2008 1:22:56 PM PDT by Dems_R_Losers (Waiting for 2012 to vote for an actual Republican)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
It’s quite likely that these girls’ violently out of control behavior is rooted in their home experiences.

Most likely as the victim (white) was a newly enrolled student at Pfeiffer-Burleigh Elementary School) in the Erie City School District. The school has the following demographic:
Am. Indian/Alaska Native: 2 ( 0 %)
Asian/Pacific Islander: 9 ( 1 %)
Hispanic: 117 ( 17 %)
African American: 347 ( 50 %)
White: 215 ( 31 %)
Unspecified: 0 ( 0 %)


The two girls, both Pfeiffer-Burleigh Elementary School students, appeared with their relatives for a closed hearing Wednesday to determine where the girls should be held as the charges against them proceed in Erie County Juvenile Court. Police accused them of assaulting Rikki in the school playground in the evening a week ago...The injured girl said the other girls pulled her off the monkey bars and attacked after she told the girls to stop splashing water on her 8-year-old sister in the school playground. Police said the victim was repeatedly stomped on the head and legs, breaking her right hip. The girls face charges of aggravated assault, simple assault and conspiracy. Erie police accused them of stomping on her at the Pfeiffer-Burleigh playground, at East 12th and Holland streets, at about 7 p.m. April 3.
It is what it is!

Regards,
GtG

41 posted on 04/10/2008 1:40:04 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Osage Orange
I don’t think you can say..”monkey bars” anymore...........

And how does their school get away with having these?

Public schools and playgrounds by us got rid of these a decade ago.

42 posted on 04/10/2008 1:45:31 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: NormsRevenge

Would a billion dollar civil suit do any good?


43 posted on 04/10/2008 2:16:13 PM PDT by Joan Kerrey
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