Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Prof to student: Keep the Faith, lose the grade
World Net Daily ^ | April 14, 2008 | WND Staff

Posted on 04/14/2008 7:56:23 AM PDT by no dems

A community college in New York has been presented with a demand letter from the American Center for Law and Justice to halt a professor's classroom practices that allegedly have damaged at least one student – so far.

The letter from the ACLJ targets Suffolk County Community College and will be the prelude to a federal lawsuit if the issue isn't resolved, the organization said.

At issue is a professor's demand that students "change their own personal viewpoints or state that they are unsure of whether their own personal beliefs are correct" on religious issues, according to the letter.

That is an expression of hostility to religion, the letter explains.

The ACLJ said it is representing Gina DeLuca, a student who has been punished with lower grades and has been labeled "closed-minded" by a professor, who remained unidentified in the letter, because he demands that students acknowledge the possibility that God does not exist in order to participate in his philosophy class, which is required for graduation.

"The ACLJ has sent a letter demanding that the school end its discriminatory actions against DeLuca or face a federal lawsuit," the organization's announcement said.

The school now has a deadline of April 14 to meet the requirements of the letter, the ACLJ said.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: New York
KEYWORDS: academia; aclj; christianstudents; christophobia; highereducation; lawsuit; leftismoncampus; misotheism; profkeepthefaith; theophobia; tolerantleft
Geesh. How great it was gowing up in America in the '50s when we didn't have to contend this a "politically correct" culture.
1 posted on 04/14/2008 7:56:23 AM PDT by no dems
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: no dems

If true, this is WORSE than politically correct.


2 posted on 04/14/2008 8:01:30 AM PDT by BenLurkin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: no dems
The ACLJ said it is representing Gina DeLuca, a student who has been punished with lower grades and has been labeled "closed-minded" by a professor, who remained unidentified in the letter, because he demands that students acknowledge the possibility that God does not exist in order to participate in his philosophy class, which is required for graduation.

Ping for later

3 posted on 04/14/2008 8:02:28 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" -- Galatians 4:16)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: no dems

Needs to go to court and win a judgement. That is the only way they’ll fear to not do this.


4 posted on 04/14/2008 8:05:04 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 1 John 4:15, John 11:25, John 14:6, 1 Tim 2:5, John 3:17-18, John 20:31, 1 John 5:13)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: no dems

Good old 50’s. Like to sig some of my parochial school nuns after this so called professor....


5 posted on 04/14/2008 8:08:59 AM PDT by ONEBYEONE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: no dems

What gets me about this is that calling someone ‘intolerant and closed minded’ and demanding they switch to your world view is nothing more than a forced conversion to their system of moral beliefs, which is exactly what liberals supposedly hate as supposedly ‘intolerant and closed minded.’ Especially if Christians do it.

This isn’t just discrimination against religion, it’s outright hypocrisy, doing the very thing you are accusing someone else of. Which of course is the very foundation of Marxist atheism.


6 posted on 04/14/2008 8:13:06 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (No prisoners. No mercy. Fight back or STFU!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I fail to see how one must renounce any religious belief is required to successfully complete a course on philosophy of any sort.


7 posted on 04/14/2008 8:19:49 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (Hillary = Senator Incitatus, Clintigula's whore...er, horse.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: no dems
politically correct" culture

"Politically Correct" aka, Speech Control - for Whitey - is the "Stealth Weapon" of the the Far Left, Muzzies and Black Liberationists.

It's meant, and indeed does, shut down dissent and two way debate of/with White Conservatives.

We allow it to continue at our peril.

8 posted on 04/14/2008 8:22:03 AM PDT by maine-iac7 (Just a Typical White, gun-toting, Jesus-loving Gramma)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ouderkirk

Almost makes you believe there are Satanic influences afoot...


9 posted on 04/14/2008 8:22:41 AM PDT by TaxRelief (typical white person)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Free Vulcan

I’m not so sure about this. As I read it, the professor was insisting that the students admit that their views might be wrong. If you state that you are absolutely certain about some religious matter, that you could not be wrong, then you have left faith (and humility) behind. If you insist that it is not even possible that you might be wrong, then you are closed minded.


10 posted on 04/14/2008 8:24:34 AM PDT by Stirner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin; Alex Murphy

Scripture warned us the globalists would make this and worse not just a goal but a reality.


11 posted on 04/14/2008 8:26:24 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: no dems

Weren’t some of the greatest philosophers in history devout Christians? Who in the hell does this guy think he is?


12 posted on 04/14/2008 8:27:04 AM PDT by LibWhacker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TaxRelief

Almost?

What’s with almost?

It’s brazenly obviously grossly neon-light EVIDENT!


13 posted on 04/14/2008 8:28:08 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Stirner; All

In keeping, in beliefs and attitude with

Noah
Moses
Ezekiel
Isaiah
Jeremiah
Micah
Jesus
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Paul

And a cast of millions of others.

I suppose you are still tentative about . . . gravity?

The need to breathe air and drink water?

Sigh.


14 posted on 04/14/2008 8:31:02 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin
If true, this is WORSE than politically correct.

Yes, but the good news is that we're fighting back and using the Left's own weapons against them. They just haven't learned that no longer will Christians sit back and take it from them.
15 posted on 04/14/2008 8:31:45 AM PDT by piperpilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: LibWhacker

Who does he think he is?

His own god.


16 posted on 04/14/2008 8:31:49 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Stirner

From what the article says, it appears the professor doesn’t mind if students are close-minded so long as they hold views he agrees with. They have to “change their views or admit their views might be wrong.” If they change their views, that is, agree with the professor, they’re allowed to be close-minded.

Besides, since when is not being close-minded a graduation requirement? Every graduate has to be unsure of everything? No graduate can hold any truth as absolute, such as “It would be wrong for me to force my view on other people”? or “I was born a female”?


17 posted on 04/14/2008 8:34:07 AM PDT by jabchae
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Stirner
As I read it, the professor was insisting that the students admit that their views might be wrong. If you state that you are absolutely certain about some religious matter, that you could not be wrong, then you have left faith (and humility) behind. If you insist that it is not even possible that you might be wrong, then you are closed minded.

Key question here: Does the professor similarly demand that all students must admit the possibility that God DOES exist?

If his insistence is one-way-only, then HE is closed minded

18 posted on 04/14/2008 8:36:44 AM PDT by PapaBear3625
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Stirner

You don’t make sense. “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” (Heb. 11:1) It is faith, through the Holy Spirit, that says that there is a God, and there is no possibility of being wrong. If we allow faith to be wrong on something like the exsistance of God, then we have no assurance of hope, and thus no assurance of salvation. Without salvation, religion is useless.


19 posted on 04/14/2008 8:41:36 AM PDT by In veno, veritas (Please identify my Ad Hominem attacks. I should be debating ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: no dems
The ACLJ said it is representing Gina DeLuca, a student who has been punished with lower grades and has been labeled "closed-minded" by a professor, who remained unidentified in the letter, because he demands that students acknowledge the possibility that God does not exist in order to participate in his philosophy class, which is required for graduation.

Isn't there a way to go after the professors personal assets? This is horrible.

20 posted on 04/14/2008 8:43:01 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Party ahead of principles; eventually you'll be selling out anything to anyone for the right price.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stirner

Asking someone to accept a premise for the sake of argument is one thing, telling them they must change their internal beliefs to participate in your class is another.

The professor could have handled it differently and chose not to. He has no right to make them change their worldview just to pass his class.


21 posted on 04/14/2008 8:50:50 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (No prisoners. No mercy. Fight back or STFU!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Ouderkirk
I fail to see how one must renounce any religious belief is required to successfully complete a course on philosophy of any sort.

A study of Metaphysic can be reasonably approached in several ways

Genuinely searching for Truth (a seeker)
Genuinely honoring the possibility of multiple viewpoints
Curiosity of other viewpoints when one has a well defined “belief”

None of these statements can be made of this “Teacher”

22 posted on 04/14/2008 8:58:44 AM PDT by HangnJudge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Quix

Bump!


23 posted on 04/14/2008 9:00:26 AM PDT by BenLurkin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

THX THX.

BTTT


24 posted on 04/14/2008 9:01:10 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: jabchae

Excellent points.


25 posted on 04/14/2008 9:02:53 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: In veno, veritas

Great points.


26 posted on 04/14/2008 9:03:35 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: In veno, veritas

“Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” (Heb. 11:1)

If we have something already, then there is no place for hoping to get it. If we believe what we see with our own eyes, there is no need for faith in things unseen.

Revelation, prayer, and personal experience can give us some assurance of salvation, but they cannot give us absolute certainty. To face that is not to admit that our faith is wrong, but humbly acknowledging the possibility that we may be wrong (while hoping and believing that we are not).


27 posted on 04/14/2008 9:03:58 AM PDT by Stirner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Free Vulcan

imho,

he has no ‘right’ to expose youth to his idiocies.

Alas, his crew will be in charge for a time . . . thankfully a very limited time.

But the horror of it will more than make up for the shortness of it.


28 posted on 04/14/2008 9:04:53 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Quix

The trouble with humanities as well as social sciences is that the grades are subjective. Even if this professor is made to alter his approach, he can assign whatever (lower) grade he chooses and invent the necessary justifications. He can also subjectively grade homework and exams to generate whatever grade he wants to inflict. had this happen to me once in a cultural anthropology course.

Explains why I went into natrual science. 1+1 will always equal 2 (except in binary, where it woll equal 10).


29 posted on 04/14/2008 9:13:46 AM PDT by catman67
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: catman67

Note English is a humanity (sorry for mis-types)


30 posted on 04/14/2008 9:15:57 AM PDT by catman67
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: catman67

Actually, my grading in my Intro to Psych class is rather objective. Not strictly so but overwhelmingly so.

And, I give grade sheets with constantly updated grades on an Xcel sheet every class session.

And, I make it mostly easy to succeed and a bit difficult to fail. Students have no complaint with my grading.


31 posted on 04/14/2008 9:16:30 AM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Stirner

You better re-check the definition of faith.


32 posted on 04/14/2008 9:25:45 AM PDT by kailbo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Ouderkirk
I fail to see how one must renounce any religious belief is required to successfully complete a course on philosophy of any sort.

That's what I thought. I can see the necessity of following a line of thinking like "Suppose God does not exist, suppose your religion is false, then..." Just following a line of thinking doesn't mean actually changing your beliefs.

33 posted on 04/14/2008 9:26:44 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: no dems
I almost had a heart attack...I thought that said ACLU not ACLJ
34 posted on 04/14/2008 9:29:23 AM PDT by SteelCurtain_SSN720 (If you pass the rabid child, say "hammer down" for me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SteelCurtain_SSN720

As much as I dislike the ALCU, this is probably a case they would actually take. Being a Chrsitian. I assume the student would probably prefer to work with the ACLJ.


35 posted on 04/14/2008 9:54:05 AM PDT by SeaHawkFan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: HangnJudge

I guess that’s where I have such a problem with this instructor.

When one goes into a course like philosophy, You are there to examine the line of thinking. Whether it is Thales to Aristotle or logic or some other metaphysical thought. You are asked to examine it for completeness, where there are faults, and if a deeper meaning, if any, can be assigned to it.

They were never presented as an alternative to any religion...just as something to think about. Whatever esoteric meanings of any philosophy be it Aristotle, or Descartes’ were the point of the class based on the knowledge of the thinker, their time, and how well their thought has stood up to scrutiny and time.


36 posted on 04/14/2008 10:06:24 AM PDT by Ouderkirk (Hillary = Senator Incitatus, Clintigula's whore...er, horse.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: no dems

.
This will probably be settled out of court and the student can probably retire if she wishes.


37 posted on 04/14/2008 10:19:41 AM PDT by TexanToTheCore (If it ain't Rugby or Bullriding, it's for girls.........................................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stirner
You've still got it backwards; what do we hope for? Salvation. What is the absolute assurance that we have will get it? Faith. I'll admit that there are times where I'm in doubt and struggle with the idea of me inheriting eternal life, but by faith I grasp onto God's Word which says that I am saved, and I cannot do this with doubt lest I consider God's promise a lie.

But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.
Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
And Jesus answered them, "Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and thrown into the sea,' it will happen.
Your life shall hang in doubt before you. Night and day you shall be in dread and have no assurance of your life.

38 posted on 04/14/2008 11:00:15 AM PDT by In veno, veritas (Please identify my Ad Hominem attacks. I should be debating ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: In veno, veritas

I may be wrong and you may be right about faith. I think that what the Gospel was talking about was the strength of faith, meaning that if we really rely on our beliefs mountains could move. But the power to transform that faith has is one thing and it’s being impossible that the thing believed in be false is another. I may believe strongly that when I go to the bank I will be able to get my money. That belief may even be true. But, if challenged, I must admit that there is some chance that the bank will not be there for me. There is even a slight chance that there never was a bank or any money and that I imagined the whole thing. Such doubts are unreasonable, but they remain logical possibilities. Similarly, I don’t think it detracts from the real power of faith, the ability to to be transformed by fully relying on it, to acknowledge that you are taking a chance on something that might not be true, or that might not be exactly as you believe it is. In fact, that leap of faith into a potential abyss with no net is what gives faith much its power. If it were fully guaranteed, it wouldn’t be a leap at all.


39 posted on 04/14/2008 11:37:19 AM PDT by Stirner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Stirner
This gets into an even more interesting discussion with respect to faith and the will of God. And I'm probably straying from the point, but here I go anyhow.
I'm going to assume that you and I both agree that God has the ability to light my BBQ on fire. So knowing this and having full faith that God can do it, when I go out and "command" the charcoal to light (Old Testament Elijah style) as we say, "In the name of Jesus," would either of us actually think it's going to work? I doubt it, and I'm not going to detract this to a lack of faith, but to a lack of knowledge of God's will. We have the actual case scenario with the family who tried to pray their daughter into health. Unfortunately the child died from diabetes. Would I say the family lacks faith? Certainly not, but they lack understanding. (Unfortunately I fear now for their faith due to the lack of understanding and death of their daughter.) The most we can say is just what Shadrack, Meshack, and Abendigo (Sp on all?) said prior to being tossed into the fire (paraphrasing), "We don't know if our God will save us, but we know He is able. Either way, we're still not bowing to your gods."
So I guess getting back to the point is that there are certain things we may doubt and there are certain things we shouldn't. We may doubt things that are outside God's clear will, like if I'm going to live today or eat dinner tonight, but there are other parts of His will that are clearly revealed to us, such as His existence and His path for our salvation. To deny the latter is to have us say that God could be a liar.

The only other thing I can say is that basically the teacher is just out of line. I've been taught at a place (trying to keep somewhat anonymous at this point) that an educator's role is not to fundamentally change what people believe. The example that was cited was a case where one person is a racist or sexist. Our job is to evaluate the arguments in papers and class, not to dismiss them as flat out wrong and say they have to change. We even need to challenge ideas that we may fully agree with. This teacher failed when he was incapable of challenging her ideas and having her give a defense of them.

Well, I've got to run off again, but it's been a pleasure chatting with you!

40 posted on 04/14/2008 2:46:42 PM PDT by In veno, veritas (Please identify my Ad Hominem attacks. I should be debating ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson