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New atom-smasher could fill gaps in scientific knowledge -- or open a black hole
ny times ^ | 4/14/08 | John Johnson

Posted on 04/14/2008 5:29:17 PM PDT by Flavius

GENEVA -- Michelangelo L. Mangano, a respected particle physicist who helped discover the top quark in 1995, now spends most days trying to convince people that his new machine won't destroy the world.

"If it were just crackpots, we could wave them away," the physicist said in an interview at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known by its French acronym, CERN. "But some are real physicists."

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antimatter; blackhole; cern; higgsboson; higgsparticle; largehadroncollider; mangano; matter; michelangelolmangano; particlephysics; particles; physics; science

1 posted on 04/14/2008 5:29:17 PM PDT by Flavius
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To: Flavius

This news is simply smashing. :)


2 posted on 04/14/2008 5:30:29 PM PDT by EveningStar
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To: Flavius

Whomever wrote this article obviously read too many Spiderman comics when he was a kid.


3 posted on 04/14/2008 5:33:06 PM PDT by Bean Counter (Stout Hearts.....)
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To: Flavius

If all goes as planned, scientists say, the new collider is likely to become one of the greatest engines of discovery in history, far outstripping the Apollo moon missions and even Charles Darwin’s monumental voyage aboard the Beagle.


4 posted on 04/14/2008 5:34:05 PM PDT by Flavius (war gives peace its security)
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To: Flavius

bump


5 posted on 04/14/2008 5:35:18 PM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: Flavius

I’m no particle physicist, but I seriously doubt they’re going to open a black hole.


6 posted on 04/14/2008 5:35:40 PM PDT by TheWasteLand
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To: Flavius

Well, if we all get destroyed we won’t have to worry about the election. There’s a silver lining in every situation.


7 posted on 04/14/2008 5:35:52 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: Flavius

There goes the neighb


8 posted on 04/14/2008 5:36:59 PM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast
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To: Flavius

“greatest engines of discovery”

A very apt description for the SC.

I like it.


9 posted on 04/14/2008 5:37:01 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Just saying what 'they' won't.)
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To: TheWasteLand

“’m no particle physicist, but I seriously doubt they’re going to open a black hole.”

Well... maybe. But... It will be really, really small.

So small, maybe only a Quark could get through.


10 posted on 04/14/2008 5:39:41 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Just saying what 'they' won't.)
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To: Flavius
I read that Steven Hawking, the head of the physics department at Cambridge
university in the U.K., said that black holes have no hair.
Well maybe they have a beard/sarc...
11 posted on 04/14/2008 5:40:29 PM PDT by machenation ("it can't happen here" Frank Zappa)
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To: Bean Counter
K-9 is doing a fine job of keeping black holes in check. Sarah Jane Smith checks on him every so often. Affection noted..
12 posted on 04/14/2008 5:42:02 PM PDT by wally_bert (Tactical Is Still Missing A Chair!)
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To: Flavius

The evaporation rate of a black hole goes up steeply as they get smaller. Even if they make one, it won’t have much mass at all (the collider works with individual ions in a vacuum, so collisions are between things with an atom-scaled mass).

It would evaporate very quickly, if Hawking et al are to be believed.

The “make a black hole” fear is common- PBFA I at Sandia was supposed to make one, then PBFA II, then when PBFA II converted over to Z, that was going to make a black hole.

The big laser for fusion research, RHIC at Brookhaven, there are probably fifty more black hole threatmakers.

That’s why I don’t go public with the project I’m doing in the spare bedroom, I don’t want angry villagers with torches outside.


13 posted on 04/14/2008 5:43:10 PM PDT by DBrow
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"If it were just crackpots, we could wave them away. But some are real physicists."

That's not very reassuring.

14 posted on 04/14/2008 5:47:14 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Flavius
Can a black hole become President of the United States?..
I'm at a loss here.. Can a black hole absorb anything left of this republic?..
Three strange particles are absorbing all the political sound bites..
I'm con'CERN'ed..
15 posted on 04/14/2008 5:48:10 PM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: Flavius
"If it were just crackpots, we could wave them away," ... "But some are real physicists."

Having no science degree himself, whatsoever, AlBore should credit his environmental detractors the same way. "But some are REAL scientists!"

16 posted on 04/14/2008 5:56:23 PM PDT by moonman
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To: DBrow
If I recall correctly, Woit in "Not Even Wrong", speculated that a super-colliders probably already created black holes that couldn't maintain their mass and disappeared -unrecognized- immediately.

You can't create a tidal wave in a bathtub.

17 posted on 04/14/2008 5:57:40 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: Flavius

If thet made a “Black Hole”
it would evaporate in microseconds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation


18 posted on 04/14/2008 6:00:42 PM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: Flavius

WE’RE ALL GONNA DIE!!


19 posted on 04/14/2008 6:04:22 PM PDT by colorado tanker (Number nine, number nine, number nine . . .)
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To: Cementjungle

Maybe the black hole will just swallow up Washington.


20 posted on 04/14/2008 6:04:29 PM PDT by Cuchulain ("...never treat with the enemy; never surrender to his mercy, but fight to the finish.")
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To: Flavius; Landru
"The only thing we know is that there have been about a million billion shaves since people started shaving and the world is still here," he said. "So all we can say is the probability of you blowing up the world when you shave tomorrow is less than one in 1015."

Well, that settles it then. I Feel much better now . . .
21 posted on 04/14/2008 6:06:04 PM PDT by BraveMan
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To: Flavius

“If it were just crackpots, we could wave them away,” the physicist said in an interview at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known by its French acronym, CERN. “But some are real physicists.”

Doesn’t stop them with global warming.


22 posted on 04/14/2008 6:06:31 PM PDT by enduserindy ("The MSM isn’t stupid, it’s just really good at looking surprised." - me, just now.)
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To: TheWasteLand

Well if they DO open a black hole, all I can say is that it’s a one-time event. That supercollider will be gone along with a bunch of scientists.


23 posted on 04/14/2008 6:14:05 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Cuchulain
Maybe the black hole will just swallow up Washington.

I would characterize that as a true miracle.

24 posted on 04/14/2008 6:26:23 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: Cuchulain

“Maybe the black hole will just swallow up Washington.”

Some of the greatest of things begin with the simplest of dreams. ;>)


25 posted on 04/14/2008 6:31:02 PM PDT by Gator113 (Hey Obama, "I drink your milkshake.")
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To: EveningStar

stupid Luddite anti-science brought to you by the same folks who are happy to sell Global Warming as we freeze to death.


26 posted on 04/14/2008 6:35:02 PM PDT by dalight
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To: Secret Agent Man

How about the earth. The moon would be stay in orbit around a miniblack hole and the rest of the solar system would not even miss us.


27 posted on 04/14/2008 6:43:56 PM PDT by jesseam (Been there and done that!)
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To: Flavius

28 posted on 04/14/2008 7:07:29 PM PDT by ricks_place
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To: Flavius
OK, I just saw the movie "The Mist."

Maybe this ain't such a good idea.

.

29 posted on 04/14/2008 7:10:09 PM PDT by R_Kangel (`.`)
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To: Flavius

“The collider will consume as much energy as all the households in Geneva, running up an annual electric bill of $30 million.”

That’s one hell of a carbon footprint.


30 posted on 04/14/2008 7:15:59 PM PDT by mkleesma
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To: Flavius

Oh, please... we completely debunked that idea in my physics class last week. For anyone who’s interested, the Schwarzchild radius of a black hole is 2GM/(c^2), where G is Newton’s constant for gravity, M is the total mass of the two particles in question, and c is the speed of light (I’m currently too tired to look up the specifics of the particles being smashed together, but if anyone’s interested that’s the math). Heck, if the Schwarzchild radius is smaller than the radius of the particles, I don’t think a black hole would form at all.


31 posted on 04/14/2008 7:24:29 PM PDT by Hyzenthlay (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: Hyzenthlay

Thats what I’ve been trying to tell everybody.


32 posted on 04/14/2008 7:26:08 PM PDT by John W (We're all gonna die!!!!)
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To: TheWasteLand

I’m not a particle physicist. I just play one on TV.


33 posted on 04/14/2008 7:35:29 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: John W

If you’re talking to someone about this in person, just doing the math for them is usually wonderfully convincing, because the average person assumes that any math related to astrophysics is way beyond their grasp and any person who can memorize such math is insanely intelligent... and they just say something like ‘Oh, OK... I guess you’re right then, I have no clue about this kind of stuff’ and be completely in awe of you.

*Note to self: This does not work as a pick-up technique, and I should not attempt to use it as such again...


34 posted on 04/14/2008 8:06:29 PM PDT by Hyzenthlay (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: Hyzenthlay
Tev is the lifetime of a black hole
Mo is the mass in Kg of the black hole

Tev = Mo^3 * 2.66x10^(-24)(yr/kg)

a black hole of mass 2.28.10^5 kg
would have a life time of 1 second
and detonate with a peak wattage of
6.84.10^21 watts

A particle with 10^12ev energy would not last
the time for a photon to go across this room
35 posted on 04/14/2008 8:18:58 PM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: Hyzenthlay

Except - electrons are black holes that have finished evaporating - and - nobody can explain why protons don’t split into smaller particles. So actually, the universe is *more* stable than theory would imply.


36 posted on 04/14/2008 8:25:29 PM PDT by bIlluminati (In the first two centuries A.D., Christians did not serve in the government or military.)
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To: Hyzenthlay

Doing the math *does* work as a pickup line, just not as often as hoped. Say about the frequency of proton decay.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and proactice. In practice, there is.


37 posted on 04/14/2008 8:27:56 PM PDT by bIlluminati (In the first two centuries A.D., Christians did not serve in the government or military.)
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To: Flavius
“or open a black hole”

Hmmm. Didn't they say this about the atom bomb? That was what, over 65 years ago?

So are we really still here, or in another dimension?

38 posted on 04/14/2008 8:42:43 PM PDT by JSteff
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

That made me LOL!


39 posted on 04/14/2008 9:23:59 PM PDT by vrwc1
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To: HangnJudge
I'm sorry that I haven't read any predicted quantum mechanics articles for
at least 10 or so years, particularly since some theoretician from New Deli
corrected Hawking theorems because Hawking did not understand Einstein.
Besides, an event horizon is indescribable.
40 posted on 04/14/2008 9:31:32 PM PDT by machenation ("it can't happen here" Frank Zappa)
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To: BraveMan
"Well, that settles it then. I Feel much better now..."

IF the jamoke has to blow the planet up, let it be after our 70* Wednesday.
OK?

After that.

...blow away. ;^)

41 posted on 04/15/2008 6:01:32 AM PDT by Landru (~& when the band you're in starts playing *different * tunes...)
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