Posted on 04/15/2008 6:48:40 AM PDT by steve-b
This is a most unusual story and should make any lover of liberty's blood boil.
Apparently a group of about 20 self-identified libertarians went to the Jefferson Memorial last night to mark the birthday of Thomas Jefferson.
They did it in an unusual way. Using their I-Pods and headphones, they began to dance on the steps of the memorial. Nothng kinky or wild according to the several accounts that have appeared on the internet. They were going to dance for about 10 minutes and then leave.
What happened next is astonishing:
Courtney and I were about 10 minutes late, but by the time we arrived it was already over. The National Park Police broke the whole thing up just a few minutes in, punctuating their lack of a sense of humor by arresting one of the dancers (we’re keeping her name private at least until she’s released later this morning). She was cuffed, taken out to a paddy wagon, then booked and held at a Park Police station. Everyone I spoke with says there was no noise, there were no threats, and no laws broken (the park police I spoke with–including the arresting officer (who, oddly enough, denied to me that he was the arresting officer)–declined to say why she had been arrested).Arrested at the Jefferson Memorial? Just because she asked "why?" The threat of terrorism excuse doesn't wash here. If we have become so frightened of terrorism that such a harmless activity can be broken up on the steps of a memorial to the man who embodied American liberty then the terrorists have already won and we might as well give up.The police refused to answer any questions, referring all calls to the communication number of the Park Police, which at this hour is closed. They also refused to give their badge numbers.
I’ll post some video tomorrow morning of two flash mobbers who say she was doing nothing at all–she was barely even dancing. Her crime was apparently to ask “why?” when the park police told the group they had to disperse. Note too that this was at around midnight. No one was bumping into tourists, or obstructing anyone’s way. I guess the only conclusion, here, is that it’s apparently illegal to dance on the steps of the Jefferson Memorial–even with headphones. You know, post 9-11 world and all. Harmless fun will be interpreted in the most threatening context imaginable. Whimsy and frivolity will not be tolerated.
This isn't the first incident I've read about like this. It is happening with alarming frequency across the country. Harmless activities delibertately interpreted by police as being threatening or hostile. Usually, you hear about it at protest rallies where there are dozens or even hundreds of people - citizens exercising their right of free speech and peaceable assembly being treated as if they were breaking the law - a response more appropriate in a dictatorship than the United States.
It's for things like this that blogs were invented. As it turns out, many of the revelers were journalists, bloggers, and Constitutional lawyers. Given the publicity this has already gotten, I think the lovers of Jefferson who were so wrongly prevented from exercising the freedom Jefferson so nobly espoused will have the last laugh in this case.
Libertarians Gone Mild.
Hmmm. First I’ve heard of it, and I live in northern Virginia.
The ever popular "interfering with a police officer". One crime that fits all.
Flash Mobs are stupid beyond belief. But this is simply wrong.
Uh...was there alcohol or public intoxication involved?
I give it post 4 before someone says the word "paultard"
Next they will be banning iPods....
Or a staged event...........
Freaking out the squares.
“many of the revelers were journalists, bloggers, and Constitutional lawyers”
Apparently, quite juvenile ones, at that......
I wonder what the charge was. Sure sounds like an overreaction on the part of the cops to me.
I’m still waiting for “The Rest of the Story”.
All right, I’ll admit it....what’s a “Flash Mob”?
With all the nasty stuff I’ve read about happening at protest rallies, where no one seems to be arrested, going after this group seems stupid.
I am a lover of liberty and it didn’t make my blood boil. If I were a park police officer I would definitely be concerned about a group of twenty of so people hanging around a memorial unless they had first given notice to the park (I know, these are Libertarians). It wouldn’t surprise me to discover that the park has rules about congregating in the middle of the night to combat gang activity or to control graffiti. Whether we like it or not, if such rules exist, they must be enforced across the board on all groups or someone will cry discriminatory enforcement. Next time, notify the park officials of your plans and get their response.
My thoughts too. I have no doubt that Capital Police probably go a little far sometimes and you can bet people like Cynthia McKenny, Code Pink, International Answer all agree. On the other hand the police do have a lot of monuments to protect. When an organized group shows us at midnight at one of the monuments I can only imagine what they feared. Something like, "oh crap, here's another damn group of nutty protesters. How long before someone tosses a bucket of red paint meant to represent Iraqi blood at old Tom's statue..."
I'll wait until I hear more details before I start waving my Constitution around.
IOW, they were considered trespassers.
That excuse went away when the arresting officer refused to explain himself.
You’re right. The Man is always keeping us cons down.
Remind me not to invite you to my next party. I suspect you'd be the glum guy with the bow-tie in the corner while everyone else is acting "juvenile."
I’ll post some video tomorrow morning of two flash mobbers who say she was doing nothing at all
Not always the best source for info, but is OK in this case - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_mob
The public may visit the Thomas Jefferson Memorial 24 hours a day.
Might depend on who was asking? If the person being arrested or dispersed asks why they are being arrested, I think an explanation should be forthcoming. But if someone arrives after the fact and wants to interrogate the cops, I don’t think it is necessary or advisable for the cop to explain things to a stranger.
Libertarians....probably alchohol and worse. Because after all, they werent hurtin’ any body else...
me too also...
Basically, a Nerd Herd, pre-arranged, via the web.
You’d be mistaken.
I knew I’d get a response like this.
Just do not think a national memorial is a place for this type of “demonstration”.....
BS, I have read many things the man said and wrote, not one time does he mention the right of shake your booty!
Yes, one can reasonably conclude that the police were interested because of the hour, not the activity.
Yeah.
Dancing Libertarian ping?
Why? So every year, my firm goes to a conference in Washington, D.C. Typically, as a break from the boring conference, we walk around the city and see the sites together. Are you saying that I should call up the Parks Department when I want to go see the Jefferson Memorial to see if it is ok? Or do I only have to call if I plan on dancing at the memorial?
somethign tells me that you’re not telling us something. I feel like I’m being steered to a conclusion based upon insufficient facts...
No pictures...please! LOL!
Now why would you say that? Aren't we supposed to intriniscally trust third-hand accounts by professional pundits who tell us the story only from the perspective of the aggrieved party? /s
Argh. “Implicitly” not “intrinsically.”
I’m sure there’s more to this story than this.
I doubt this is true.
If they can attack military recruiters they can certainly trespass.
So, you have the hour, the potential of alcohol (hasn't been confirmed one way or the other) and the size of the group potentially requiring a permit and my guess is that the Park Police were just went their trying to follow their regulations and probably informed the folks of the same...and my guess is that the one gal got snippy with them.
I have been to a couple of very constitutionally minded rallies (that I helped organize) in DC, both at the Lincoln Memorial. Each time the Park Police were very gracious and also very supportive of our pro-America, pro-constitution activities.
No, I think that when you take a mob of people at midnight and start doing weird silent gyrations, it might behoove you to notify the police of what you are doing. What happens during the daylight hours is one thing because your group would have been more visible, other visitors would have been around, and the guides would have been on duty. I think that when something like this happens late at night it is a legitimate concern of the police who are trying to control graffiti, desecration and gang activity.
It that were true, we'd all be in jail.
They were paying homage to a great man of freedom and got arrested for it by our police state. I still think that we could achieve energy independence by connecting generators to the spinning corpses of our founding fathers.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/timeplacemannertest.html
Test for Constitutional Validity of Time, Place and Manner Regulations in the Public Forum
1. Does the regulation serve an important governmental interest?
2. Is the government interest served by the regulation unrelated to the suppression of a particular message?
3. Is the regulation narrowly tailored to serve the government’s interest?
4. Does the regulation leave open ample alternative means for communicating messages?
Maybe that's a legitimate function of the police, but I'm still not seeing how that merits arrest. So the police show up, watch my group of people dance (to ensure that we're not spray painting Old Tommy) and then we leave. What's the trouble here?
That’s not something I can answer from the account so far. If the police showed up, informed the people that their actions were not permitted where and when it was happening and the people simply dispersed or respectfully asked why, then an arrest would be out of line. On the other handd if someone protested the police, or acted in a threatening manner, then an arrest would be in line. Since you are providing so far only a second- or third-hand report I don’t have enough facts or both sides to understand why the one woman was arrested. I am with several other posters who want to hear about this from the other side before making a judgment.
LOL!
i feel uncomfortable in public by people who get creeped out over the silliest of things... perhaps i can have you arrested too. you have the right to assemble, not a right ‘not to be creeped out’.
teeman
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